I heard this from a guy who visited India, Is it true?

[weemadando]

Where do slaves get beaten to death at their masters whim?
Crack a fucking history book you moron.(or use your imagination, and think of a Saudi prince)
Your wall of ignorance is thick today.
That or you are redefining the word slave to suit your arguement.
Slavery is when you are OWNED, a non person, chattel, propery, not legaly human Got it.
Slaves don't collect social security and retire in Mexico.
Needing a job you hate is realty, you spoiled little college punk.

You think in pre industrial days you had a chioce about you carreer? NO! you did what you had to to survive, eve if you HATED farming or hunting.

Congratulations you've outlined the convenient definition of slavery that avoids the point completely. Perhaps you missed my comments before about slaves in Greek and Roman society having a great many rights and priviledges. Slavery doesn't imply ownership, but ownership is often a consequence of slavery.

Needing a job you hate is realty, you spoiled little college punk.

I think I hear someone preaching to the choir. There is a reason that I've worked shitty manual labour 12 hour night shifts throughout my summer holidays year after year, its so I can afford to "be a spoiled little college punk". When you start living (and by this I mean EVERYTHING YOU DO, rent/mortgage, food, bills, the lot) on under $6000 Australian a year, then you can call me a "spoiled little college punk". Until then you can shut your fucking mouth around that silver spoon thats firmly inserted in it.

[weemadando]

http://www.ucd.ie/~classics/96/Madden96.html

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/ ... mrep1.html

[Frank Hipper]

Do you know any Mexican illegal immigrants Ando?

[Joe]

A slave is a person or worker who does not have the full legal rights that would be otherwise available to them. A slave can also be someone who lacks a means of recourse against their employer.

Sounds like an attempt to broaden the definition to me. That is so absolutely not a slave. A slave is one who is bound in servitude to a household or an individial. An illegal immigrant is free to leave his employer as he chooses and return to his home country. That fact completely destroys your argument.

What happens when the illegal immigrant quites their job? Can they go on the job market again and sit down and have an interview and a nice chat with their new boss, give over their Social Security No.s etc and get down to work in their nice new 9-5 job? No. They have to go underground again and hope that they don't get caught by the authorities, that is if their previous "owner" doesn't dob them in when they try to leave. They lack a means of recourse, therefore they are slaves - Hell, they are most definately slaves, under Greek (Athenian and later) and Roman law slaves had a means of recourse.

Or they can just leave the country, something a true slave would never be allowed to do.

Seriously, go up to an illegal immigrant, tell him he's a slave, and he'll laugh at you and tell you how much better he's got it here than in his home country.

[Colonel Olrik]

Seriously, go up to an illegal immigrant, tell him he's a slave, and he'll laugh at you and tell you how much better he's got it here than in his home country.

We have the same problem here, with the illegal emigrants from Eastern Europe. Despite many times being treated as subcitizens and explored by the mobs who arrange their coming here, they still earn ten times as much as contruction workers than they did as engineers and doctors in their own countries.

And they try and eventually manage to fit in, become legal and improve their situation, without thinking of returning to their previous situation.

They situation may share some similarities with slavery, but it is temporary (as they can come out of it) and it's voluntary, as they are running from an impossible situation to try a better future.

[Ted]

[quote='UNHCHR"]It continues to be reported in a wide range of forms: traditional chattel slavery, bonded labour, serfdom, child labour, migrant labour, domestic labour, forced labour and slavery for ritual or religious purposes[/quote]
http://users.erols.com/bcccsbs/bass/definiti.htm

[EmperorChrostas the Cruel]

http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/toc.htm

THIS is slavery.These are the pictures.

I suppose in your world view, it is not white/christians explioting others, so it doesn't show up on your radar. But you know every bad thing the"west" does. This is straight up Muslums exdploiting black christians and anamists.

There is always a crowd trying to "dumb dowm" the level of horror true evil evokes. Their agenda is to mobilise the outrage againts obvious evil when we see it, and siphon off some for their pet cause.
This only weakens the resolve of the not so dedicated, much to the chagrin of the dedicated.
Comparing the condition of an illeagal immigrant to a REAL slave is a cheap trick, to either magnify the immagined plight of the "exploited," at the expence of the truly victimised.
This is not surprising coming from Weeman, as the "victocrat" mentality of the left.

And Weeman, reread my post. I did not call you a RICH spoiled colege punk. I did not use the word RICH.

You can be spoiled and poor you know.
Tantrums are cheap, even poor kids can afford them.
You probably like to think YOU are a victim/slave. Take your pick.

[Frank Hipper]

[quote='UNHCHR"]It continues to be reported in a wide range of forms: traditional chattel slavery, bonded labour, serfdom, child labour, migrant labour, domestic labour, forced labour and slavery for ritual or religious purposes

http://users.erols.com/bcccsbs/bass/definiti.htm[/quote]I was bonded when I worked for the movie theater, never knew I was a slave until now. Thanks for the update.

[EmperorChrostas the Cruel]

I did a bondage scene once, and there was a slave involved.

She never tried to escape though, and seemed to enjoy her punishment.

[EmperorChrostas the Cruel]

Weeeeell, maybe more than once.

[weemadando]

[quote='UNHCHR"]It continues to be reported in a wide range of forms: traditional chattel slavery, bonded labour, serfdom, child labour, migrant labour, domestic labour, forced labour and slavery for ritual or religious purposes

http://users.erols.com/bcccsbs/bass/definiti.htm

I was bonded when I worked for the movie theater, never knew I was a slave until now. Thanks for the update.[/quote]

Incorrect, as you had a means of recourse against your employer.

[Frank Hipper]

[quote='UNHCHR"]It continues to be reported in a wide range of forms: traditional chattel slavery, bonded labour, serfdom, child labour, migrant labour, domestic labour, forced labour and slavery for ritual or religious purposes

http://users.erols.com/bcccsbs/bass/definiti.htm

I was bonded when I worked for the movie theater, never knew I was a slave until now. Thanks for the update.

Incorrect, as you had a means of recourse against your employer.[/quote]My facetiousness aside, at least I wasn't the only one who fell victim to Ted's poor use of BB tags!

[Stuart Mackey]

A slave is a person or worker who does not have the full legal rights that would be otherwise available to them. A slave can also be someone who lacks a means of recourse against their employer.

Sounds like an attempt to broaden the definition to me. That is so absolutely not a slave. A slave is one who is bound in servitude to a household or an individial. An illegal immigrant is free to leave his employer as he chooses and return to his home country. That fact completely destroys your argument.

A couple of years ago NZ had a case where a person was procecuted and convicted for keeping a slave. That person was brought here on false pretence, and was to all intents an purposed redused to a slave.
Slavery is illegal in NZ.
What becomes an issue is someone may, technically, be free to leave the service of his/her employer, if that employer has some coercive hold over a person due to their status in a nation, or the employees ignorance of the law, then the nature of the relationship changes.

[Sarevok]

I met a guy who told me that he visited India while in the Air Force and while on leave, he visited some city, he didn't say the name, but that on the street, there were people, of all ages and races, locked in cages to be sold for sex. This shocked me, and i have to ask those who know, is this true?

I also heard that they have doctors in India called cripplers, who will cripple a part of oyur body so that you will be able to beg and earn more money that way. Does anybody know if this is true?

I have traveled in many places of the world like europe, north america, the middle east but never openly saw or heard of slavery in any of these places. Anyway I am from what was used to be a pakistani provice known as east pakistan and I could tell you a lot more about slavery in south asia from a personal point of view.

Firstly south asia is not what you think it is. There are a lot poor people in there but the situation is much better africa, we are more like vietname or the philipines or lebanon. If you ever vist south asia then do not forget meet some local guy and have him or her show you the posh areas in new delhi, karachi, dhaka, kathmundu etc. You will be astounded by how much wealth exists in the cities of asia. Sure people there are not as rich as americans but they have big aparments, multiple new cars, computers etc.

Consider talking to south asian friends of yours and they will tell you more. Tip: watch hindi cinema, it can be difficult to procure for you but there exists a large fan base in the west, you will like it. BTW Indians are terrible, they are hated by muslims all over the old, do not completely trust their official media in matters like terrorism, pakistan and hindu religon.

Now for the slavery question. There ARE NO SLAVES IN INDIA OR ANYWHERE IN SOUTH ASIA. At least not openly. The goverments are very, very strict on this issue. For example every year the indians push back hundreds illegal migrents . This makes smuggling slaves in or out a difficult job to say the least. India is democratic country (a greater percentage of people vote here than america) and such practices are impossible today.

Now I must say that india is a more weird place than pakistan and bangladesh because they are mainly hindu. Your friend probobly visited kolkata. The cripplers you mentioned did exist in the past there but they are a dying breed today. Child kidnapping is common in south asia, the kidnappers usualy kill the children and sell their body parts rather than cripple them. The real slavery is an economic one. Often due to the evil globalisation the workers are not paid well and made to workd long hours, in many areas children work in factories than going to school. Of course efforts are on way to elimante them and many honest instituitions have earned ISO certification by conforming to international labor law. In the long run economic slavery will end.

Another form slavery is caste discrimination. It exist only in some rural parts of india though some well off peole (india's prime minister among them though he denies it) personaly prefer high caste people to low ones.
Search for hindutva and gujrat geonocide and you will learn more than I can tell you.

Also people are smuggled out here to other countries in a regular basis. One destination is the middle east where young kids are used camel jockies. Other places are malayasia and australia.

Regarding people in a cage that is a difficult question. In my hometown this is impossible. In india I heard in remote villages low cast people are treated badly but this is too much. The only explanation I can give has to do with hindu priests. Sometimes they do realy weird things such as one you mentioned but if caught by the law they can face severe punishment (trafficking in woman and children results in death penalty in Bangladesh)

I will post more later but I am feeling tired now. And I will provide you some links so you can learn what human right experts have to say on this issue.

[weemadando]

Another form slavery is caste discrimination. It exist only in some rural parts of india though some well off peole (india's prime minister among them though he denies it) personaly prefer high caste people to low ones.
Search for hindutva and gujrat geonocide and you will learn more than I can tell you.

Actually according to all the research I've done for my essays and exams on this issue this semester, the only reason that the caste system is perceived to be in decline is because of the spread of other religions. Within the Hindi population its still common and enforced.

Also people are smuggled out here to other countries in a regular basis. One destination is the middle east where young kids are used camel jockies. Other places are malayasia and australia.

Australia has a pretty large slave industry. The boat people who arrive (without getting caught and placed in detention centres) are usually already "pre-booked" by various groups. The moment they step off the boat they are placed in slave labour somewhere.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The only explanation I can give has to do with hindu priests. Sometimes they do realy weird things such as one you mentioned but if caught by the law they can face severe punishment (trafficking in woman and children results in death penalty in Bangladesh)

I had thought about the Hindu priests angle - Occasionally stories pop up in the media over here of rather outrageous practices which some of them still try to get away with.

[Patrick Ogaard]

The only explanation I can give has to do with hindu priests. Sometimes they do realy weird things such as one you mentioned but if caught by the law they can face severe punishment (trafficking in woman and children results in death penalty in Bangladesh)

I had thought about the Hindu priests angle - Occasionally stories pop up in the media over here of rather outrageous practices which some of them still try to get away with.

The simplest explanation is actually that it's simply an open-air brothel. Exactly the same type of institution as described by British soldiers more than a century ago. Apparently that particular type of brothel, with the oversized bird cages hanging in the street, is supposed to be limited to a few particularly large cities with centuries-old traditions of catering to travelers of limited means.

The cripplers may still be around, but they're probably on the way out. Begging is apparently no longer universally seen as a valid lifelong career choice.

Also, deliberate surgical crippling of patients is hardly unprecedented in the West. There used to be a fairly brisk trade in castrati as opera singers, and certainly the Emperor in Constantinople would never have let an uncastrated man become a civil servant. Similarly, the conical cranium with sharply sloping forehead became the height of fashion for a short time in Central Europe once the tribes from the steppes invaded in the waning days of Rome, and that meant ropes and boards applied while the baby's head bones were still soft and separate.

As for actual cripplers specializing in beggars, there was apparently some of that in the medieval period. Hamstringing is easy and relatively survivable, and even an amateur with a sharp knife, a needle and some thread can produce a fake harelip that's reasonably convincing. Worst case, a few severed tendons, a sharp strike to the lower leg bones and deliberately false resetting of the break will produce a nasty crippling effect. Begging used to be a valid career choice for the people at the bottom of the societal ladder, especially when prevailing religious standards effectively required impoverished, diseased, crippled beggars since the wretched gave the well-off a conscience-salving and soul-saving opportunity to display their largesse and increase their standing in society.

Even without formal or informal slavery, India has enough things that are odd and even grotesque by my standards. Thus, for instance, there would be the little snippet -- from a documentary -- about an untouchable woman, one of the formally casteless pariahs, whose job was to clean the latrines at a shrine. The latrines were little more than two rows of toilet bowls, hewn in stone, the two rows facing each other. Since she had no money for tools, and no one considered it needful to provide her with tools, every day she would wander up and down the rows of latrines with a bucket and scoop the bowls clean with her bare hands. Just like her female ancestors for countless generations before her, and, as she feared, her daughter would after the woman herself got too old.

Of course, the Hindu portion of India is hardly the only part of the world that has such an untouchable class that is used to do all the stuff that nice people don't do, or touch the things that nice people don't touch. Japan would be a major example, and for eminently logical reasons, certain of the Japanese untouchables (eta or burakumin) control the shoe trade.