Lowest End Sci-Fi Universe?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-14 10:11am

What's the weakest, least developed sci-fi universe? We all know the ones at the top of the list(Culture, Marvel, etc.) but what's at the bottom?

Star Trek? Battletech? StarCraft?

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-09-14 10:32am

You ever watch the EARLY episodes of Robotech, where they were still battling to get the damn SDF to get off the ground? After that though, they kind of rocked.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-09-14 10:37am

Renedvous with Rama.
Clarke was aiming for total realism there though.
No monoliths

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-14 10:40am

StarCraft?

Certainly not, altough they're not very strong, they can sterilize planets with relative ease. Terran ships are lacking shields, though, but make up for it with extensive armor.

My guess is StarTrek and Babylon 5 are the weakest(no insult to the B5ers I liked the series for what it is).

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-14 10:47am

Cowboy-Beboop

They can travel between planets but fighting between ships is limited to chain-guns and missles, The next lowest, Gundum is much much more powerful militarly thant Cowboy Beboop

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-14 11:03am

Star Trek is far from the bottom.

No, the lowest level forces would be Homeworld, Space Above and Beyond, Starship Troopers (TV series), Battlestar Galactica, etc...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-09-14 11:04am

Battlestar Galactica?

YOU ARE JOKING, RIGHT, TELL ME YOUR JOKING?!

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-14 11:23am

NecronLord wrote:Battlestar Galactica?

YOU ARE JOKING, RIGHT, TELL ME YOUR JOKING?!

I just report what others claim, so I ain't joking.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-14 11:27am

Ahh I know one! Tri-Gun Sci-Fi, They posses giant organic power genration umm plants however all space travel has been lost and they are reduced to 1980's level weaponry hand-guns are prevelant and the Earth is dead, Thier old verison of Space Travel was giant Sleeper ships most of which where destroyed before they got anywhere and the few that made it where almost all destroyed too...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-09-14 11:30am

Alyeska wrote:Star Trek is far from the bottom.

No, the lowest level forces would be Homeworld, Space Above and Beyond, Starship Troopers (TV series), Battlestar Galactica, etc...

Disagree on Homeworld. Cross the galaxy in weeks-months. Heavy fusion missiles. Torch a planet. Can build a heavy cruiser inside of 10 minutes, and said heavy cruiser is as big as an ISD. Ranges suck, but they aren't that weak.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-14 11:33am

SirNitram wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Star Trek is far from the bottom.

No, the lowest level forces would be Homeworld, Space Above and Beyond, Starship Troopers (TV series), Battlestar Galactica, etc...
Disagree on Homeworld. Cross the galaxy in weeks-months. Heavy fusion missiles. Torch a planet. Can build a heavy cruiser inside of 10 minutes, and said heavy cruiser is as big as an ISD. Ranges suck, but they aren't that weak.

The speed is not that fast, IIRC it tooks months to reach Higaraa. Though the planet burning capabilities are similar to that of observered ST capabilities. I guess they hold a relatively similar status near that of ST, better in some areas, worse in others.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-09-14 11:44am

Alyeska wrote:
SirNitram wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Star Trek is far from the bottom.

No, the lowest level forces would be Homeworld, Space Above and Beyond, Starship Troopers (TV series), Battlestar Galactica, etc...
Disagree on Homeworld. Cross the galaxy in weeks-months. Heavy fusion missiles. Torch a planet. Can build a heavy cruiser inside of 10 minutes, and said heavy cruiser is as big as an ISD. Ranges suck, but they aren't that weak.
The speed is not that fast, IIRC it tooks months to reach Higaraa. Though the planet burning capabilities are similar to that of observered ST capabilities. I guess they hold a relatively similar status near that of ST, better in some areas, worse in others.

Do you happen to recall where it says they took months? I'm curious, because it's always been a subject to debate among Relic fans(Relic itself even posted a poll to see what people thought, days, weeks, months).

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » 2002-09-14 12:02pm

Well, Battlestar Galactica is just lacking in FTL sensors, and thats all. Perhaps the new series of Battlestar Galactica will shed some light on the tech.
Space: Above and Beyond has some amazing FTL. I remember an episode where it took them less than five seconds to enter a new Star System.
I don't know why people think B5 is weak. It couldnt dent the GE, but it would destroy the UFP, and the First Ones could destroy the Borg. B5 has good FTL, and the power of gravimetric drive makes a capital ship as manuverable as a fighter.

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » 2002-09-14 12:03pm

Did anyone else but me study the Battlestar Galactica Tech Manual on Stardestroyer.net's link page? I suggest you do so.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-09-14 12:21pm

I have

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-14 12:27pm

I always thought that Homeworld was slightly above Star Trek, myself.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-14 12:47pm

Cyril wrote:I always thought that Homeworld was slightly above Star Trek, myself.

Less range, smaller fleets, and slower sublight drives.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-14 01:08pm

I think the weakest is the Stargate sci-fi universe. They have these ultra-fast stargates for interplanetary travel, but their industrial base is unskilled labourers!

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-14 01:20pm

Darth Wong wrote:I think the weakest is the Stargate sci-fi universe. They have these ultra-fast stargates for interplanetary travel, but their industrial base is unskilled labourers!

Yes and no. The point behind the Goa'uld is that they want a propegating system that will keep them in power as god like creatures. They have a group of main rulers that work together keeping pretend wars alive in a feudal system where they rule over weaker subjects who will fight to the death. Their technology is at the levels they are because they are parasitic in nature and develope little technology of their own. Their labourers are unskilled and disperesed and uneducated because it means rebellion is difficult and very hard to spread beyond just one planet.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-09-14 01:55pm

Alyeska wrote:Yes and no. The point behind the Goa'uld is that they want a propegating system that will keep them in power as god like creatures. They have a group of main rulers that work together keeping pretend wars alive in a feudal system where they rule over weaker subjects who will fight to the death. Their technology is at the levels they are because they are parasitic in nature and develope little technology of their own. Their labourers are unskilled and disperesed and uneducated because it means rebellion is difficult and very hard to spread beyond just one planet.

Well, that explains why they're weak, but it doesn't change the fact that they're weak.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-09-14 02:00pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote:Yes and no. The point behind the Goa'uld is that they want a propegating system that will keep them in power as god like creatures. They have a group of main rulers that work together keeping pretend wars alive in a feudal system where they rule over weaker subjects who will fight to the death. Their technology is at the levels they are because they are parasitic in nature and develope little technology of their own. Their labourers are unskilled and disperesed and uneducated because it means rebellion is difficult and very hard to spread beyond just one planet.
Well, that explains why they're weak, but it doesn't change the fact that they're weak.

Weak to an extent. Their ground forces are undeniably pathetic (Chris O'Farrell made a wonderful vid clip to illusrtate this), but they are more then enough to deal with primitive societies. When dealing with technologically advanced races they use their spaceships (of which there are aproximately 200 total) to soften the enemy to the point that occupying Jaffa armies can deal with any resistance. The example of the humans from Earth is that they have incredibly well trained special forces compared to the Goa'uld, and they use this capability veyr effectively to neutralize the Goa'uld threat. Though it can't be denied that the Earth humans would not still be alive had they not allied themselves with the Tokra and Asgard. The Earth humans are badass only as long as they have their allies to help protect them.

Moonstone Spider · Post by **Moonstone Spider** » 2002-09-14 02:11pm

Waterworld. Wind is the primary power and the fact that some people have internal combustion engines makes them almost unbeatable.

Hey, it's sci-fi isn't it?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-14 02:13pm

In that case...

Road Warrior.

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-14 02:31pm

Here's what I think:

Star Trek: Hey, I'm a Rabid Warsiopath

Gundam: They don't have FTL drives, but I believe they would rip ST to shreds. If I'm not mistaken, Gundam Wings have acceleration tolerances close to an X-Wing, and can survive reentry from an altitude significant enough to cause massive craters. However, since they are isolated within the Sol System, their resources, numbers, strengh, etc, are severley limited, so they are easy picking for anyone with an FTL drive and that has signifcant numbers to overwhelm, sustain attrition rates, or possibly even blockade the system. The higher end people, like SW, and the REALLY high end Culture, Rift, etc people probably won't feel a thing.

Stargate: Which faction? Arguably, the "Earth" faction is the weakest of all because all they have going for them is the alien Stargate, but otherwise they're just 20th century Earth. But arguably, they also don't really qualify either

The Gou'old would give ST trouble, but they would be ripped to shreds by anyone else. They appear to have FTL speeds arguably within SW's range (they crossed a good size of the galaxy in two hours in "Envelope" not to mention "Nemesis", and that instantaneous Stargate system too) but are deficient in other areas. Lord Wong already mentioned the Gou'old's poor infastructure and the Tok'ra infastructure is even worse. Their weapons appear to be in the low KT range (several shots were required to destroy a Gou'old mothership from another one, and in "Envelope" a single AIM-120 modified with a low KT nuke was claimed to be capable of destroying them). The most powerful race is undoubtedly the Asguard, of which appear to possess massive fleets relative to other races, but their fleet numbers seem comparable to a single ST faction's, at best. Nonetheless, they seem to be able to take on a ST fleet on pretty equal terms, barring simply disengaging with their FTL drives.

BTech: would still rip ST to shreds. At worse, BTech's ranges are only as bad as Star Trek's (BTech=up close and personal, ST=up close and personal as seen in countless examples, none the least of which is SOA). BTech weapons are from low kiloton to low megaton range, nothing worse than a phototorp, and are better armed than a ST ship. ST may have anywhere from a slight to a significant advantage in ship numbers, though, as BTech possesses relatively few space fairing vessels. This may just be a result of the lop-sided attention BMechs get in the literature, so there may actually be a fair number of ships. Nonetheless, I predict that BTech should fair at least slightly better than equal against Star Trek.

Independence Day (NOT Independence War!): Pretty-ass weak. They were defeated by stupid 20th century humans, after all! Their weaponry still has a long ways to go before they even break into the kiloton range, with the sole exception of the city-ship lasers, and even they may just barely reach into the KT range if at all. Their defensive and offensive capabilities appear to be centered around carrier ops and the large laser of their city ships, as they haven't demonstrated any other weapons. However, ST's lack of starfighter support may mean that ID4 has an advantage with their sheer numbers of fighters, and it all depends on the ships' ability to absorb firepower rather than dishing it out. It's hard to judge, but I think it's possible for ID4 to win against Trek, even if it might require a bit of luck.

Homeworld: Already discussed, I think they'll crush Trek.

World War: I think these guys really should be lumped together with the ID4 aliens (come to think of it, I think ID4 is a total rip of WW). I really don't know much about them, but Trek may stand a good to very good chance against them, based on what I heard.

Starship Troopers: Can someone say Trek Stomping Party(TM)?

StarCraft: See above, multiply by 10, rinse, repeat

RayCav of ASVS · Post by **RayCav of ASVS** » 2002-09-14 02:37pm

Water World: The Earth is covered with 90% water, humans are forced to live above the water's surface, hot-air balloons are considered a signifcant advantage, humanity reverts to bronze-or-iron age levels. Worn-out hulks like the Exxon Valdez are considered incredibly valuable commidities despite the fact that they're little more than iron-hulled barges propelled by oars (realism problem: can a ship like that really be propelled by that?). Everyone struggles to survive. Even Trek should have little or no problem subjugating them.

Road Warrior: I don't want to comment because I don't know if this is the same as Mad Max or not (I think one of Mel's best roles

)

The Postman: never seen it, but if horseback riders are significant, then I guess Trek should get this too

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Lowest End Sci-Fi Universe?

Lowest End Sci-Fi Universe?

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