Asteroid destruction in TESB

[His Divine Shadow]

I did some tracing of the bolt paths, this is what I got:
http://www.hisdivineshadow.com/misc/ima ... estroy.gif

The bolt, or beam changes heading and the bolt follows according to this, if I did my tracing right.

EDIT:
http://www.hisdivineshadow.com/misc/ima ... y_fast.gif
http://www.hisdivineshadow.com/misc/ima ... y_slow.gif

[Howedar]

I can't see what the fuck you're trying to show here.

[Robert Treder]

I can't see what the fuck you're trying to show here.

He's showing that the turbolaser bolt doesn't travel in a straight line, which is quite interesting.

[Howedar]

No, I mean with that green line I really can't see.

Green isn't the best choice when overlayed over green, HDS.

[Robert Treder]

Ah. For every frame, the line begins at the rear of the bolt. The bolt is slightly thicker than the line, so it's just barely visible.

[Mad]

Which, incidentally, is support for Saxton's description of turbolaser behavior in ICS2 (bolt travelling along a beam). Which is support for the theory I came up with and posted a while back (as well as others similar to it, such as Wong's "non-square waveform"), which directly predicted this kind of thing happening.

Finally, vindicated, after three long... months.

[Ender]

Nice dude, that explains alot.

[Soulman]

Which, incidentally, is support for Saxton's description of turbolaser behavior in ICS2 (bolt travelling along a beam). Which is support for the theory I came up with and posted a while back (as well as others similar to it, such as Wong's "non-square waveform"), which directly predicted this kind of thing happening.

Finally, vindicated, after three long... months.

If you don't mind could you repeat the theory?

My theory is that the beam is a guide for the bolt, so that the slow bolt can still hit at long range. Instances where the damage occurs slightly before the bolt reaches the target cna be explained by the glowing bit being only the centre of the bolt, where most of the energy is.

The problem that I have with any LS TL theory is that damage should occur as soon as the bolt leaves the barrel in the vast majority of cases.

[Mad]

If you don't mind could you repeat the theory?

My theory is that the beam is a guide for the bolt, so that the slow bolt can still hit at long range. Instances where the damage occurs slightly before the bolt reaches the target cna be explained by the glowing bit being only the centre of the bolt, where most of the energy is.

The problem that I have with any LS TL theory is that damage should occur as soon as the bolt leaves the barrel in the vast majority of cases.

Mine is something along those lines, though more detailed. What it comes down to, though, is that the beam starts off too weak to do damage (a warm-up beam), and then, after a couple frames, fires the actual damaging beam. The speed of the visible bolt (which stays on the path of the beam) is timed so that it should impact the target at the same time the full power of the beam is released.

If you want more details, check out this thread (the link points to what should be my most informative post in the thread, though there are many others by me there).

[His Divine Shadow]

The problem that I have with any LS TL theory is that damage should occur as soon as the bolt leaves the barrel in the vast majority of cases.

Such a reasoning is dependant on assumptions on your part.

[Ender]

If you don't mind could you repeat the theory?

My theory is that the beam is a guide for the bolt, so that the slow bolt can still hit at long range. Instances where the damage occurs slightly before the bolt reaches the target cna be explained by the glowing bit being only the centre of the bolt, where most of the energy is.

The problem that I have with any LS TL theory is that damage should occur as soon as the bolt leaves the barrel in the vast majority of cases.

Mine is something along those lines, though more detailed. What it comes down to, though, is that the beam starts off too weak to do damage (a warm-up beam), and then, after a couple frames, fires the actual damaging beam. The speed of the visible bolt (which stays on the path of the beam) is timed so that it should impact the target at the same time the full power of the beam is released.

If you want more details, check out this thread (the link points to what should be my most informative post in the thread, though there are many others by me there).

So basically, it goes zzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZAP!, instead of just ZAP!.

Is that a corect dumbing down of it?

[Ender]

HDS, are you going to do something similar to this for those TIE guns that behave in this manner?

[His Divine Shadow]

OK, new GIF's, these look better too, atleast on my screen.

This one ought to play around the same speed as in the movies.
http://www.hisdivineshadow.com/misc/ima ... y_fast.gif

And this one is slowed down to .6 seconds per frame, thats enough to give each frame a good look:
http://www.hisdivineshadow.com/misc/ima ... y_slow.gif

[His Divine Shadow]

HDS, are you going to do something similar to this for those TIE guns that behave in this manner?

I dunno, if it's possible with those shots

[Mad]

So basically, it goes zzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZAP!, instead of just ZAP!.

Is that a corect dumbing down of it?

Yes.

HDS, the new GIFs look good. A different color line might be useful.. unless you already tried other colors and they were worse or something. I can see what's going on just fine, though. It's strong evidence in favor of Saxton's description.

If similar shots from different scenes can be found, then coupling it with a theory similar to mine should quiet down the opposers to the ICS2 turbolaser description.

[Ender]

If similar shots from different scenes can be found, then coupling it with a theory similar to mine should quiet down the opposers to the ICS2 turbolaser description.

No it won't. Despite the fact that plasma is contradicted by the massless behavior in the movies, and that you aren't going to get green plasma at the energy levels we see canonicaly demonstrated, people still desperatly cling to that.

[Phil Skayhan]

HDS, this is very interesting. Nice work.
I'll check this out myself tomorrow.

It's times like this that I really miss Photoshop. It really makes this kind of work easy.

[SPOOFE]

This would also explain why, in ANH, the Death Star turbolasers made constant rotational movements rather than "rotate-stop-fire" every time they wanted a bead on their target.

[His Divine Shadow]

And the subsequent dissapearing of the bolts too

[SPOOFE]

Indeed.

The variable velocity of turbolaser bolts is well-known. Perhaps the initial targeting laser allows the gun's computer to calculate the amount of energy needed for each shot, making the duration of each pulse exactly the same? That would explain why, in one instance, it takes a turbolaser bolt a quarter of a second to travel a few hundred meters, and in another, it takes the same amount of time to travel several kilometers.

Hey, I think we're starting to get a working theory for turbolasers here. Well-done, HDS.

[His Divine Shadow]

So what you are saying is that the bolt-velocity is related to the power of the beam, or that it's set by the weapons computer?

I had a theory that it was related to the lenght of the beam somehow, but if it's power-related it would explain the apparent accelerating bolts sometimes seen, as the charge-up time increases the power of the beam might increase slightly too, causing the ripple/bolt to move faster.

[SPOOFE]

So what you are saying is that the bolt-velocity is related to the power of the beam, or that it's set by the weapons computer?

Explains the slight delay. It also explains why, in the asteroid scene, the bolt would sometimes go through an asteroid, and other times would be stopped by an asteroid... the computer either miscalc'ed the energy required to make the shot, OR it was aiming for a different, larger 'roid and the smaller one got in the way.

In short, I am theorizing that the strength of the beam varies on-the-fly, automatically, by the targeting computer, to make sure that power isn't wasted by making a blast that travels onwards for hundreds of kilometers if it misses. This would also explain why no errant blasts in space battles (in ROTJ and TPM) hit the planet below, which would have caused significant damage.

Think of the difference between a pistol round and a rifle bullet: The rifle bullet travels faster - and, thus, farther - because of a greater amount of energy imparted at the start... whereas a pistol round, fired from the same length of barrel, doesn't travel nearly as fast or nearly as far, because less energy is used to fire it.

Thoughts on this theory?

[Connor MacLeod]

SPOOFE's idea has merit. Remember that we saw a TL bolt pass THROUGH an A-wing without doing any damage in ROTJ (that rather strongly suggests it isnt a damaging component, doesnt it? )

Also, we see alot of weird behaviours of blaster bolts. For example, we frequently can observe ricochets or "bounces" where the bolt bends or reflects, rather than scattering (could you "bend" a bolt of plasma without breaking containment? I think not!)




Additional variations that may or may not be of interest: blaster bolts appeaering both opaque and transparent, suggesting at least two kinds exist:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/given/ ... ebolt1.JPG

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/given/ ... sbolt1.JPG


And for fun, a TPM-era "damage before bolt" scene:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/given/ ... ontact.JPG

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

Hmm im beginning to favor the LS beam idea but there is still one thing that puzzles me, the momentum. If we are talking about a LS beam, then where does the momentum come from?

[His Divine Shadow]

Hmm im beginning to favor the LS beam idea but there is still one thing that puzzles me, the momentum. If we are talking about a LS beam, then where does the momentum come from?

From the beam ofcourse, beam weapons such as lasers and masers have momentum and recoil too.