Can the Empire build a Dyson Sphere ?

[SirNitram]

Of course, if you meant Ali Crackpot's assertion that it must be neutronium, he's being a little retard and thinking ST's Dyson Sphere is the one true one.

I meant ALI_G's yes.

Strange though, I have known ALI_G for years and all this time I had him pegged as a trekkie

I can't help but think of those that recycle RSA's arguments as being trekkies. They may also be Fivers or whatever, but.

[omegaLancer]

Well construct of the sphere should not be a major problem. We seen machine in the SW universe that build 1000 story structure, and the construction of Neumann machines ( world devourers).

The major source of raw material would be the solar system itself.

Let start with Hoth, Drop a few World Devourer program to build addition world Devourer into asteriod field. After it finish contruction of the Addition WD, it then start constructing machines that will begin constructing the DS.

For Neutronium just tear apart a few neutron stars...

After the Asteriods are gone turn the WD onto the other planets of the system.

And it should be no problem meeting the dead line...

[Soulman]

These are probably wrong but I did a few calcs:

Volume of DS2 (cubic km) = 4/3 x pi x r^3
= 4/3 x pi x 80^3
= 2,144,660 km^3

Volume of Dyson sphere (cubic km, 1km thick) = 4 x pi x r^2
= 4 x pi x 64,000,000^2
= 5 x 10^16 km^3

No. of DS2 in dyson sphere = 5x10^16/2,144,660
= 2^10

So for the resources to build 20 billion DS2s you have 1 dyson sphere with a diameter of 128 million km and a thickness of 1 km.

[Soulman]

It was wrong some of the numbers are insanely out, here goes again:

Volume of DS2 (cubic km) = 4/3 x pi x r^3
= 4/3 x pi x 400^3
= 268,000,000 km^3

Volume of Dyson sphere (cubic km, 1km thick) = 4 x pi x r^2
= 4 x pi x 100,000,000^2
= 1.25 x 10^17 km^3

No. of DS2 in dyson sphere = 1.25x10^17/268,000,000
= 466 million

So for the resources to build 466 million DS2s you have 1 dyson sphere with a diameter of 200 million km and a thickness of 1 km

[YT300000]

It was wrong some of the numbers are insanely out, here goes again:

Volume of DS2 (cubic km) = 4/3 x pi x r^3
= 4/3 x pi x 400^3
= 268,000,000 km^3

Volume of Dyson sphere (cubic km, 1km thick) = 4 x pi x r^2
= 4 x pi x 100,000,000^2
= 1.25 x 10^17 km^3

No. of DS2 in dyson sphere = 1.25x10^17/268,000,000
= 466 million

So for the resources to build 466 million DS2s you have 1 dyson sphere with a diameter of 200 million km and a thickness of 1 km

The Empire could make one in secret in 388 years. If they put everything into it, it would be a lot faster.

[Howedar]

God damnit, does nobody ever read my posts or what?

[YT300000]

You mean this post?

I'm not convinced that the Empire could build a Dyson Sphere. Now don't get me wrong, the Empire has fearsomely impressive industrial capabilities. Still, size is a major factor.

Now, I don't see getting the raw materials as an insurmountable problem for the Empire. It would take the committance of a sizable portion of the Empire's transport capabilities IMHO, but it would definately be doable without undue economic impact.

But, you still have to build the damn thing. And voluminous as the DS2 is, its still comically small next to a Dyson sphere. Say a Ford factory could build a car in a day. Cool, thats pretty damn impressive.

Now you give me the job of building an aircraft carrier. Scaling up from the car example, one would think it would only be a matter of time before the Ford factory could build said carrier. But the fact of the matter is, one cannot necessarily scale up construction abilities like that. I hazard to say that a car manufacturer could not build a carrier no matter how long you gave them: they simply don't have the capability.




Now, don't take this as me saying that there is no way the Empire couldn't build a Dyson Sphere. I am not trying to say that at all. What I am trying to say is that we have not seen the capability to build such a massive object demonstrated by the Empire, to my knowledge.

The Empire has built arficial planets in the past!

They could build a Dyson Sphere. It would just take a while.

[YT300000]

[hijack]Wouldn't it be cool if the Empire made a Dyson Cube?!?![/hijack]

[SirNitram]

So for the resources to build 466 million DS2s you have 1 dyson sphere with a diameter of 200 million km and a thickness of 1 km

The Empire could make one in secret in 388 years. If they put everything into it, it would be a lot faster.

Based on volume. Based on mass, it's even better; the DS-1's reactor weighed in at a minimum of 1.5e29, or 1/10th or so of a Solar Mass. That's if it was a one-shot blast for the main weapon, and all of it's mass was the energy for the shot. In other words, it's alot higher.

If it was just volume, it'd be 388 years in secret. If just mass, ten years, probably much less. It's somewhat of a mix, and it's not in secret.. Well, hard to tell.

BTW, as for the scaling of engineering, it's hard to tell. Most estimates, including Mike's own, require a material ten thousand times stronger than steel. I'm not sure if Imperial materials meet that(Though I'm thinking they are, given some of the stuff they've withstood).

[Alyeska]

and yes I am aware that some people do come here who claim to be Trekkies

Claim?

[Rye]

[hijack]Wouldn't it be cool if the Empire made a Dyson Cube?!?![/hijack]

Wouldn't you get..like...really cold corners or something dude?[/californian surf bum]

[Howedar]

The Empire has built arficial planets in the past!

They could build a Dyson Sphere. It would just take a while.

Fuck, I could build a planet too if you gave me enough shit. You just build a big fucking pile of whatever you want, and there ya go, you have a planet.

Building a Dyson sphere is somewhat more complicated.

But yes, that was the post.

[SirNitram]

The Empire has built arficial planets in the past!

They could build a Dyson Sphere. It would just take a while.

Fuck, I could build a planet too if you gave me enough shit. You just build a big fucking pile of whatever you want, and there ya go, you have a planet.

Building a Dyson sphere is somewhat more complicated.

But yes, that was the post.

The complication is primarily in the material strength; everything else required has been demonstrated. The material strength may have been as well, but I haven't really analyzed.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

and yes I am aware that some people do come here who claim to be Trekkies

Claim?

Yes you stupid Warsie geek. Now go back to wanking off since you can finally wear a "I saw SW 2 million times" T-shirt.


For the stupid and the slow, this happens to be a joke.

[Frank Hipper]

Now you give me the job of building an aircraft carrier. Scaling up from the car example, one would think it would only be a matter of time before the Ford factory could build said carrier. But the fact of the matter is, one cannot necessarily scale up construction abilities like that. I hazard to say that a car manufacturer could not build a carrier no matter how long you gave them: they simply don't have the capability.

Henry Ford built 53 Eagle type patrol boats during 1918-1919. They were 200 feet long, and displaced 615 tons full load.
He also constructed the shipyard to build them.
They may have consisted of only one third of the materials needed for a modern aircraft carrier, but impressive capability for an auto manufacturer during WWI.

[Howedar]

Yes, but I think you know what I'm getting at. One cannot necessarily scale up production abilities.

Material strength is not the only issue in building a Dyson sphere.

[SirNitram]

Yes, but I think you know what I'm getting at. One cannot necessarily scale up production abilities.

Material strength is not the only issue in building a Dyson sphere.

No, it's not, but everything else has been demonstrated.

Solar mass-levels of production? Check(Death Star's).

Anti-gravity? Check.

Production speed? Questionable, and impossible to nail down. Probably sufficient.

Protection? Planetary shield arrays.

Name some more requirements, if you can think of them. Dyson Spheres are huge and near-impossible things to us, but this is a society which can alter the mass of a starship.

[Solauren]

I'd have to say yes, but not in 25 years. Maybe 300 - 400 years as been suggestioned

The question is, why would they?

According to best estimates, the Empire ruled 85%+ of the Galaxy (depends on how big the 'Unknown Regions' are, and how much they were scared of Thrawn with a big fleet behind him)

However, if you read most of the literature, alot of it is still uninhabited. 'Class M' (hey, I like the Trek definitions, simple and too the point) type planets, just waiting for colonization.

They don't need to, yet.

However, I could see, if the Empire 'rose again' in the EU, or had never fallen, them eventually Building Dyson Spheres when they run out of room (provided they haven't started over-running other galaxies and OtherSpace)

[Howedar]

Solar mass-levels of production? Check(Death Star's).

Being generous, the DS2 was about 1/20000 the mass of Earth. I'm not real sure that the volume of production is sufficient.

Anti-gravity? Check.

Not really. You're going to need to use real ion engines to hold the parts out in the proper locations until you put it all together: you're well out of repulsor range of the sun.

Production speed? Questionable, and impossible to nail down. Probably sufficient.

I'm inclined to agree.

Protection? Planetary shield arrays.

You're extrapolating a pretty incredible jump in capability here, but I don't see this as the problem.

Name some more requirements, if you can think of them. Dyson Spheres are huge and near-impossible things to us, but this is a society which can alter the mass of a starship.

Its not sufficient to put a Dyson sphere together a piece at a time. As Niven put it, "the Ringworld can be treated as a suspension bridge with no endpoints. Simple in concept; harder to build." A Dyson sphere is similar, only several times harder.

You pretty much need to put a solid Dyson sphere together all at once, as you're holding uncountable numbers of pieces in precise alignment, and you want to bring them into position all at once in order to not fuck up everything with the immense gravity we're talking about. Its a colossal nightmare, to say the least. Thats assuming you've even got the ability to coordinate such a thing, then make it happen.

[SirNitram]

Solar mass-levels of production? Check(Death Star's).

Being generous, the DS2 was about 1/20000 the mass of Earth. I'm not real sure that the volume of production is sufficient.

E=MC^2 disagrees pretty strongly, and that's just the reactor.

Anti-gravity? Check.

Not really. You're going to need to use real ion engines to hold the parts out in the proper locations until you put it all together: you're well out of repulsor range of the sun.

This was actually a typo for Artificial gravity, one of the huge problems with a Sphere.

Production speed? Questionable, and impossible to nail down. Probably sufficient.

I'm inclined to agree.

Protection? Planetary shield arrays.

You're extrapolating a pretty incredible jump in capability here, but I don't see this as the problem.

What jump? We know planetary shields are networks, just more units. No extrapolation needed, just more shield units. This is to protect against asteroids and comets, BTW. Against fleet movements is a big problem.

Name some more requirements, if you can think of them. Dyson Spheres are huge and near-impossible things to us, but this is a society which can alter the mass of a starship.

Its not sufficient to put a Dyson sphere together a piece at a time. As Niven put it, "the Ringworld can be treated as a suspension bridge with no endpoints. Simple in concept; harder to build." A Dyson sphere is similar, only several times harder.

You pretty much need to put a solid Dyson sphere together all at once, as you're holding uncountable numbers of pieces in precise alignment, and you want to bring them into position all at once in order to not fuck up everything with the immense gravity we're talking about. Its a colossal nightmare, to say the least. Thats assuming you've even got the ability to coordinate such a thing, then make it happen.

I have to ask what you mean by immense gravity. You may mean intense pressure from the rotation, and that's a valid question, and comes down to material science. Coordinating it will be hard, yes. But this is an Empire which uses power sources many times denser than Black Holes. I'm not going to say it's impossible.

[Ender]

So for the resources to build 466 million DS2s you have 1 dyson sphere with a diameter of 200 million km and a thickness of 1 km

The Empire could make one in secret in 388 years. If they put everything into it, it would be a lot faster.

Based on volume. Based on mass, it's even better; the DS-1's reactor weighed in at a minimum of 1.5e29, or 1/10th or so of a Solar Mass.

Say what? Going by e=mc^2 the DS2 only ranked in at 1.11E17 kg for the reactor, how do you get that number?

[SirNitram]

The Empire could make one in secret in 388 years. If they put everything into it, it would be a lot faster.

Based on volume. Based on mass, it's even better; the DS-1's reactor weighed in at a minimum of 1.5e29, or 1/10th or so of a Solar Mass.

Say what? Going by e=mc^2 the DS2 only ranked in at 1.11E17 kg for the reactor, how do you get that number?

Schwha?

Here's my math, exactly(Originally trying to derive the DS-1's reactor density):

Bare-bones minimum power of the DS1 reactor: 1e38(Does not count anything but the planned shots in ANH)
Equation for energy's 'mass': E=MC^2
Rough mass by my math(Though my math is always a bit clumsy): 1.5e29
Rough size of DS1's reactor: 16Km cubed

Rough density of main power core: 9e24 g/cm cubed

Now, I fully admit I could be really wrong. If you can see what might have happened, lemme know.

[Ender]

Based on volume. Based on mass, it's even better; the DS-1's reactor weighed in at a minimum of 1.5e29, or 1/10th or so of a Solar Mass.

Say what? Going by e=mc^2 the DS2 only ranked in at 1.11E17 kg for the reactor, how do you get that number?

Schwha?

Here's my math, exactly(Originally trying to derive the DS-1's reactor density):

Bare-bones minimum power of the DS1 reactor: 1e38(Does not count anything but the planned shots in ANH)
Equation for energy's 'mass': E=MC^2
Rough mass by my math(Though my math is always a bit clumsy): 1.5e29
Rough size of DS1's reactor: 16Km cubed

Rough density of main power core: 9e24 g/cm cubed

Now, I fully admit I could be really wrong. If you can see what might have happened, lemme know.

Bare bones minimum power would be 1.157e33. Divide 1E38 by a day since it takes a full day to charge the gun.

DS1 reactor diameter is 36% of the main station diameter, and the fuel portion where the reaction takes place is 10% of the main diameter, yielding 1E14 m^3 and 2.14E12 m^3 respectively.

Your math is off because your base numbers are off.

[Typhonis 1]

A ringworld would be simpler and you could have huge panels orbiting between the ring and the star to simulate day and night .

[nightmare]

Divide 1E38 by a day since it takes a full day to charge the gun.

That would be Death Star I.. and doesn't the movie refute this?

Death Star II recharges fully in 8 minutes according to WEG stats. However, according to the same stats, it can only fire three full power shots per day.