Rape in the Bible

[Kitsune]

Rape in the Bible:

I have had discussions with several people in the past trying to show examples of rape that is supported by the bible. Most Christians will not admit to these but I will let the reader decide.
First, there are many examples in the Old Testament of the Hebrew men kidnaping Non-Hebrew with biblical support for the actions. The Old Testament definitely supports the raping of Non-Hebrew women.

Numbers 31:17. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women who has known man by lying with him. 18. But all the women that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Numbers 31:31. And Moses and Eleasar the priest did as the lord commanded Moses. 32. And the booty, being the rest of the prey which men of war had caught, with six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep. 33. And threescore and twelve thousand beeves 34. And threescore and one thousand asses 35. And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him 36. And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheeps; 37. And the Lord's tribute of the sheep was six hundred and three score and fifteen. 38. And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the Lord's tribute was threescore and twelve. 39. And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the Lord's tribute was threescore and one. 40. And the persons were sixteen thousand of which the Lord's tribute was thirty and two persons

Deuteronomy 20:13. And when the Lord thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the with the edge of the sword; 14. But the women, and the little ones and the cattle and all that is in the city, even all the spoil therof, shalt though take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.

Deuteronomy 21:10. "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, 11. And seest among the captive a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; 12. Then though shalt bring her home to thine house; and shalt shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and mother a full month ; and after that thou shalt be her husband, and she shall be your wife. 14. And it shall be, if thou have no delight with her, then thou shalt let her go wither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

Judges 21:10 And the congregations sent thither twelve thousand men of their valiantest, and commanded them, saying, Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; with the women and the children. 11. And this is the thing that ye shall do, Ye shall utterly destroy every male , and very women that has lain by man. 12. And they found among the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead four hundred young virgins, that had known no man by lying with any male; and they brought them unto the camp to Shiloh, which is in the land of Cannan.

Christian defenses have included, first, with Deuteronomy 21:10-14, that since the women were held captive for a month before they are forced to marry the Hebrew man, that no rape occurred. This is a totally unreasonable statement because would any woman wish to marry a man after he killed all your family members and got held captive for a month. Since they were given no choice, this is to be considered rape, there is no other. In addition, consider the wording at the end of Deuteronomy 21:14 about the women having been humbled that also indicates rape. She is humiliated, her head is shaved, her cloths are taken from her (Leaving her naked), and her nails are paired (My comment, probably so she does not rip his eyes out). The laws concerning the Rape of Hebrew Woman (Which I will get to) would not apply for two reasons, first, she is his wife (With or Without consent, second, she is not a Hebrew
The second defense I have heard is that how does a person know that rape took place. Consider the importance that several of the passages put on WOMEN prisoners and consider the time frame. What did men of that time do with women prisoners, they raped them.

When I first introduced the examples listed above, passages of Deuteronomy 22:22-27 and 2 Samuel 13:1-15 were quoted back to me to say that the bible does not support rape. These examples are specifically Hebrew women and the rules are very unfair to them. In addition, none of the people who used Deuteronomy 22:22-27 wanted to see Deuteronomy 22:28-29 because it puts it in a very different light.

Deuteronomy 22:22. If a man is found lying with a women married to a husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the women, and the woman; so shalt thou put away evil from Israel. Kill them both.
Deuteronomy 22:23. If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in a city, and lie with her; 24. Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gates of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she did cried not, being in the city; and the man because he hath humbled his neighbors wife; so thou shalt put away evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 22:25. But if the man finds a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her; then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26. But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death; for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter. 27. For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there were none to save her.
Deuteronomy 22:28. If a man finds a damsel that is a virgin which is not betrothed, and lay hold of her, and lie with her, and they be found. 29. Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

By the language of the passages, it is pretty obvious that in reality the passages are not so much about rape but are in reality about the theft of another mans wife (ie a property crime). The vast problems I have with these passages is how specific they are. One has to wonder what would happen if the women being raped was a Widow if it would even be considered a crime. It does not say any women. These passages also show very little intelligence in their writing. With Deuteronomy 22:23-24, it says that in the case of a city the women shall be put to death because she did not cry out. Well, what happens if the man has a knife and threatens to use it if she cries out, is that fair to the women. In Deuteronomy 22:22 there are no extenuating circumstances, the women will always be put to death whether she was raped or not. Also reading 22:25-27, it indicates that she had no sin "worthy" of death, indicating that she has still sinned. How is being raped a sin for the victim. While many societies down through the ages have tried to say that, God should know that it is not. Finally, it is very light in the case of an unbetrothed in 22:28-29 being that the man only has to give the father some gold and now this poor woman is the mans to rape anytime he wants and she is suppose to submit. This of course was the passages that the Christians wanted to leave out of the discussion.

2 Samuel 13:1-30
Amnon loves his sister Tamar, rapes her, then hates her. Absalom then hunts Amnon down and kills him two years later.

This final passage that was listed might indicate that maybe at least part of the bible is against rape but there are a few problems that need to be indicated. First, due to the amount of different authors in the bible, this could only be seen as the opinion of one specific person. Second, the way the passage is written, read it if you are interested but due to its great length I am not recopying it here, it does not seem to be a true story. I have heard of no examples, even in ancient cultures that the women wanted to be with the man after being raped. Third, She of course is a noble women, and the rules were always applied differently in those cases. Fourth, it falls under the rules of 22:28-29 that if he had paid the gold he should have been able to do with he as he wants. Fifth, being how far after the fact Absolom kills Amnon it is not to be considered punishment but instead personal vengeance.

To show the value of women in the Hebrew society some passages should be mentioned. Women, whether Hebrew or Not Hebrew, They are property. Hebrew MEN who were purchased as servants were given their freedom after six years (Exodus 21:2) but women in the same position were NOT given their freedom (Exodus 21:7). Ever ask yourself why it is that Hebrew daughters could be sold into slavery by their fathers (Exodus 21:7) while Hebrew men were the only ones who could authorize selling themselves into "bondage?"

[Darth Wong]

Moses' Deuteronomy exhortation to his soldiers to take the women and girls of conquered nations for themselves (20:13, which you quoted) was fairly explicit authorization of rape, and from God's anointed messenger, no less. I'd say that's probably the clearest case, although there are others.

[Enforcer Talen]

http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm

[InnerBrat]

I haven't really read it, so correct me if I'm wrong, but in 2 Samuel, isn't the crime incest rather than rape? Incest is taboo in nearly all cultures, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

[NecronLord]

I haven't really read it, so correct me if I'm wrong, but in 2 Samuel, isn't the crime incest rather than rape? Incest is taboo in nearly all cultures, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

It is, (there's nothing wrong with the rape apparentley)

You owe me something for reading through all that...

[The Yosemite Bear]

As per Susan Brownmiller* & and Raine Isler ** you missed the first one.

Genesis:

'Unto women, in pain will children be brought into this world, and in pain will they be concieved. and the latter shall not be of your choosing.


*Men Women & Rape
** The Chalice and The Blade (Patriarical Vs. Matriarical society in history)

[InnerBrat]

Genesis:

'Unto women, in pain will children be brought into this world, and in pain will they be concieved. and the latter shall not be of your choosing.

That could be rape, but isn't that just that women aren't supposed to enjoy sex (which doesn't make it rape if they still allow it)

[The Yosemite Bear]

Well the second half "Not of their Choosing" as per Brownmiller/Isler implies that women can't give consent, which is why they called it the first pro-rape passage in the bible.

[Peregrin Toker]

** The Chalice and The Blade (Patriarical Vs. Matriarical society in history)

A nitpick: "The Chalice and The Blade" doesn't advocate matriarchy, it advocates egalitarianism. At least that's the author's intention.

[InnerBrat]

Well the second half "Not of their Choosing" as per Brownmiller/Isler implies that women can't give consent, which is why they called it the first pro-rape passage in the bible.

You're right... but y'know what I';ve just noticed? at least it's pro-abortion!

[Kitsune]

I haven't really read it, so correct me if I'm wrong, but in 2 Samuel, isn't the crime incest rather than rape? Incest is taboo in nearly all cultures, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

It is what bible apologist in the past used to indicate that the the bible does not support rape......I did not ever think of it in terms of incest. I may need to change the article to fit that.

[Kitsune]

Genesis:
'Unto women, in pain will children be brought into this world, and in pain will they be concieved. and the latter shall not be of your choosing.

I need to look at this passage as well.

[Exonerate]

Genesis:
'Unto women, in pain will children be brought into this world, and in pain will they be concieved. and the latter shall not be of your choosing.

I need to look at this passage as well.

Could just be referring to the hymen being broken... Of course, I could be wrong. Its rather vague...

[neoolong]

Genesis:
'Unto women, in pain will children be brought into this world, and in pain will they be concieved. and the latter shall not be of your choosing.

I need to look at this passage as well.

Could just be referring to the hymen being broken... Of course, I could be wrong. Its rather vague...

That doesn't happen every time women lose their virginity. Or so I've been told.

So that pain wouldn't exist for all women.

[Kitsune]

That doesn't happen every time women lose their virginity. Or so I've been told.
So that pain wouldn't exist for all women.

It may be lost in time but I wonder if I was there any specific rituals that the Isrealites had with sex.

[Beowulf]

Genesis:
'Unto women, in pain will children be brought into this world, and in pain will they be concieved. and the latter shall not be of your choosing.

I need to look at this passage as well.

Could just be referring to the hymen being broken... Of course, I could be wrong. Its rather vague...

*cough* A hymen could become ripped before sexual relations, for example, with gymnasts. *cough*

[Exonerate]

That doesn't happen every time women lose their virginity. Or so I've been told.
So that pain wouldn't exist for all women.

It may be lost in time but I wonder if I was there any specific rituals that the Isrealites had with sex.

I do recall something about having to show blood-stained bedsheets to prove the married woman was a virgin...

[neoolong]

I heard of that too. I never heard it linked to the Isrealites though.

[JodoForce]

I do recall something about having to show blood-stained bedsheets to prove the married woman was a virgin...

How is that supposed to show anything?

[neoolong]

I do recall something about having to show blood-stained bedsheets to prove the married woman was a virgin...

How is that supposed to show anything?

If the woman is a virgin she is supposed to have her hymen. When she has sex with her husband it breaks and she bleeds. So if the sheets are bloody that means she had her hymen and was a virgin.

[JodoForce]

I see. I was wondering what being a virgin had to do with the Period...

[Spoonist]

Not only should you have such a sheet, the brides parents should also keep it as proof if the husbands accuses her of not being a virgin.

Deuteronomy 22 (NIV)
Marriage Violations
13 If a man takes a wife and, after lying with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, "I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity," 15 then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. 16 The girl's father will say to the elders, "I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17 Now he has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the proof of my daughter's virginity." Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, 18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver [2] and give them to the girl's father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.
20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.

[Spoonist]

Another example: sending out the women to save the men... Another indication that they where property.
Judges 19 (NIV)
20 "You are welcome at my house," the old man said. "Let me supply whatever you need. Only don't spend the night in the square." 21 So he took him into his house and fed his donkeys. After they had washed their feet, they had something to eat and drink.
22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, "Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him."
23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, "No, my friends, don't be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don't do this disgraceful thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But to this man, don't do such a disgraceful thing."
25 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. 26 At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight.
27 When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. 28 He said to her, "Get up; let's go." But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.
29 When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel. 30 Everyone who saw it said, "Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Think about it! Consider it! Tell us what to do!"


In the discussion it should also be mentioned that when you got a new wife you had 1 year in which you couldn't be drafted by the army or any other community service. So if you knew there was a war coming you'd take any unmarried woman and pay of her father.

[Spoonist]

->Kitsune
Just a small point.

Just as in most cultures of the time there was different sentences for doing something to someone out of the tribe than within the tribe.

So raping an israeli woman (today translated to christian) was considered a vile act and punishable by death.
But raping a non-israeli woman was considered rude but only "punished" by forcing you to 'marry' her.

The same rule was enforced by Richard Lionheart during his crusade against the muslims.
His soldiers where only punished for raping christian women, not muslim.

If you are lucky you could probably find a similar decree by the pope regarding the re-conquest of spain.

[InnerBrat]

Of course, everyone's still missing the point that I first missed about the Bear's quote:

and the latter shall not be of your choosing.

That's the rape thing.

NB The woman does not have to be a virgin for sex to hurt. Just thought I'd point that out.