Why do people think the Andromeda is so powerful?

[Crossover_Maniac]

But the Death Star can't destroy a star. And although it would be a suicide run, a nova bomb can be attached to a slipstream fighters ("To Loose the Faithful Lightning") making a fighter more powerful than the Death Star

Flak bursts.

Flak bursts can barely nail ships doing 3,000 g's. They're not going to hit something pulling 700,000 g's while pulling off maneuvers that would make Wedge Antillies green with envy, and that if the slip fighter comes out of slipstream within firing range of the ISD. If it doesn't, then the Imp will never catch it in time.

[HemlockGrey]

Lots of flak bursts. Defense platforms. A storm of concussion missles. They can swat that fighter down.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Lots of flak bursts.

The TL gunners have trouble hitting X-Wings flying towards them. They're not going to hit the Centaur or Shrike fighters flying away from them towards the sun.

Defense platforms. A storm of concussion missles.[/quote]

Uh...The CW fighters can out-accelerate and outmanuever any SW missile shot at them. And besides, if anything, the Imp system being targeted for a nova bomb will be attacked by a GHC that's going to launched self-propelled missiles at the star as soon as it's out of slipstream and fly right out of the system.

[HemlockGrey]

The guns we see in the movie, if I'm not mistaken, are short-range TL's. Long-range TLs are computer-controlled.

Plus, with enough flak fire, the Shrike wouldn't have anywhere to dodge.

[Moonstone Spider]

Er, I don't think The Empire can cover an entire Star System from every direction with Turbolasers. You're talking an unholy vast amount of space here. The Empire doesn't even have 1 ISD for every System they control, much less enough to provide cover fire in every direction, for every system, which I'd guess would take many dozens if not hundreds of ISDs.

[Crossover_Maniac]

The guns we see in the movie, if I'm not mistaken, are short-range TL's. Long-range TLs are computer-controlled.

If the computer controls are so accurate, then why not use them for both long and short ranges?

Plus, with enough flak fire, the Shrike wouldn't have anywhere to dodge.

Didn't I just say the nova bomb attack would be launched from a High Guard capital ship. The slip fighters did carry nova bombs but only because there were no capital ships available ("To Loose the Faithful Lightning"). It was really more of an act of desparation on the part of the station commander (the slip fighters and bomb were on a depot station in that episode and manned by the descendants of the High Guard officers stationed there). I only mentioned it as a joke. It can be done, but it's preferred not to since the slip fighter would have plunge itself into the star.

[NecronLord]

There's a reason why the Andromeda universe seems so powerful. In the episode, "The Mathematics of Tears", a woman by the name of Lt. Jill Pearce claimed that the reason why their ship, the Pax Magellanic's slipstream drive was damaged was because they were in orbit around a planet destroyed by the Nietzcheans (the term 'destroy' as in the planet was shattered in a million pieces that could not be pulled by together by their mutual gravitational attraction). Dylan pretty much accepts what Pearce tells him. Then Tyr comes to Dylan and tells him the Nietzcheans were not the ones to destroy that planet. Why? Was it because the ability to blow up a planet is beyond Nietzchean technology? No. The Nietzcheans do have a planet destroying weapon. They call it the Maxim charge. The reason why they wouldn't have blown up the world that the Pax Magellanicbecause the Nietzcheans never blow up habitable worlds even to destroy their enemies. We later learn that Lt. Pearce lied. It turned out the Pax Magellanic's AI destroyed the planet by ejecting its slipstream drive and sent it crashing it into the planet, destroying it, and scattering the pieces at the same rate of expansion as the debris from Alderaan. Note that even though Nietzscheans compose a minority population (Nietzcheans compose 8% of the human population), they have planet-destroying capability. Also, in the Thrawn triology, the Noghri homeworld undergos an environmental catastrophe when a capital ship crashed on their planet. However, the planet wasn't destroyed and still was somewhat habitable. Had that been a GHC that crashed into the Noghri homeworld, there would have been no Noghri in existance. And planet-destroying weapons isn't even considered to be stragetic weapons. For a weapon to be considered 'stragetic', they have to be able to destroy whole star systems. That's where the Nova Bombs come in. The cause a star to supernova destroying an entire star system. And GHC are armed with 40 Nova Bombs each. What is considered to be the "crap in your pants/end of the world" superweapon in the SW universe is just another ordinance in the Andromeda universe. That's why Andromeda seems so powerful.

An GCU can kill planets in one shot, from hudereds of lightyears away, and Its a basic exploration ship

ROU's can slag entire starsystems from hundeds of lightyears in a few nanoseconds, if you piss them off enough.

C'tan EAT frickin stars. The last WAR the Necrons fought destroyed most of the sentient life in the UNIVERSE.

[Typhonis 1]

Not to mention that the Old Ones or Slann as they nare called created creaturess that could overcome organic beings and control them..a truly nasty fight C`tan and Necrontyr vs Magog and SOE.....The freakin Commonwealth would be fragged in no time

[NecronLord]

You mean the enslavers? they were not created by the Slann, they were a result of the psycic instablility of the Slann's last ditch creations.

[His Divine Shadow]

This is why the SW universe doesn't make use of projectile weapons. They lack the ability to accelerate projectiles to the speeds in a relatively short time necessary for combat, while TL fire travels at c.

Prove it, or shut the fuck up.

Wait, I'll just prove you wrong instead, your lies are so annoying that there is no point in dragging it out:

Pg. 153-155: "Ready all weapons, Back out and drop the block on this one's mark. Three, two..."

Danni barely climbed into the turret before "mark." The cargo door thumped open, expelling a two ton square of durasteel, and the blastboat decelerated and slammed her into the transparisteel dome, and she grabbed for the cannon triggers and pushed herself into the firing seat.
...
The Blastboat accelerated. Danni's laser cannos went wild, catching a coralskipper by sheer chance and reducing it to pebble. The X-wings and Y-wings looped back to encircle the blastboat, masking the larger ship behind their own shields.
...
Danni fired a few more seconds, until the battle drew too close to the enemy cruiser, and the corvette and coralskippers broke off. She swung her cannons forward. A mere two hundred meters distant, the glowball was as large as a class three comet, and space beyond was filled by the Yuuzhan Vong cruiser.
...
"ready missiles and torpedoes. Spread pattern, " Saba ordered. "Hold...hold.."
...
"Fire all!" Saba commanded. "Cancel glowbal."
...
Then Danni remembered the block - the block the Yuuzhan Vong could not have seen when they grabbed the glowball - the two tons of durasteel accelerated to no small percentage of lightspeed. The energy on impact would be equal to mass multiplied by velocity squareed, divided by...

Danni was still doing the calculations when space turned white.

(ref: Star by Star)

Pg. 291: Still moving at a substancial percentage of lightspeed, the Sabers flashed past a trio of Dozen X-Wings.

(ref: Star by Star)

Pg. 377: Listed erroneously on most charts as a Gamma Clas navigation hazard-which usually meant an unlocated black hole-the Bantha was actually a protostar, a small cloud of relatively cool glas slowly contracting to become a star. In a few million years or so, it would contract enough to start fusing hydrogen, but for now its core emitted nothing more dangerous than a vaue aura of infrared heat. A good pilot could fly straight through it at near lightspeed, so long as he stayed clear of its dust ring and avoided the uncharted gamma-ray pulsar on the other side.

(ref: Star by Star)

Pg. 161: Kilometers began to scroll up impossibly quickly on Erisi's range finder as the X-wing ran up to lightspeed and entered hyperspace.

(ref: The Bacta War)

Pg. 133: The hyperdrives barely sipped fuel, while the sublight engines gulped it. Running up to a lightspeed jump burned a lot of fuel, though not as much as maneuvering through a dogfight.

(ref: Rogue Squadron)

As for KE weapons, we already mentioned the aforementioned planetary railgun, and how in the old times they used KE weapons before shields where invented and so on and on, though I except it'll run through you like water through a drain.

[His Divine Shadow]

Captain Needa 'the damage we substained' not 'the damage substained by having the fancy holo-conference with our shields down while in the asteroid field'.

PROVE there was any damage to the ISD's, your dumbass semantics are fucking annoying, give hard proof or STFU.

As any sane person would argue, the officer merely said that the rate of damage must have been enough to easily destroy a small figther.
And no contradictions of the kind that you are trying to create anymore, that must suck.

As MW said:
"Only one ship out of his entire fleet sustained major damage, yet you categorically reject the notion that this ship was any different from the others."
(Even though there is shitloads to suggest this very thing in the movie and overall continuity demands it)

And I don't buy this notion that holo-com signals can't be sent between shielded vessels.

Concession accepted then.

[Crossover_Maniac]

This is why the SW universe doesn't make use of projectile weapons. They lack the ability to accelerate projectiles to the speeds in a relatively short time necessary for combat, while TL fire travels at c.

Prove it, or shut the fuck up.

I'm given you proof you little prick. The velocity (.85c-.95c) and mass (1 kg) of the offensive missiles are given for anyone to make the calculations. You have given neither for any of the SW projectile weapons. You should be the one to shut it.

[Crossover_Maniac]

Captain Needa 'the damage we substained' not 'the damage substained by having the fancy holo-conference with our shields down while in the asteroid field'.

PROVE there was any damage to the ISD's, your dumbass semantics are fucking annoying, give hard proof or STFU.

Sematics? Is that what fanatic, inbred Warsies call their opponent's arguments?

As any sane person would argue, the officer merely said that the rate of damage must have been enough to easily destroy a small figther.

No, he said the damage 'we' sustained, as in the Imperial fleet searching for the Millenium Falcon in the Hoth asteroid.

And no contradictions of the kind that you are trying to create anymore, that must suck.

As MW said:
"Only one ship out of his entire fleet sustained major damage, yet you categorically reject the notion that this ship was any different from the others."
(Even though there is shitloads to suggest this very thing in the movie and overall continuity demands it)

If the ships sustained any damage from the Hoth asteroids, they won't be able to stop the offensive missiles from pentatrating the shields and hull of a star destroyer. The offensive missiles produce hundreds of time more force and hundreds of millions of times more sheer stress than even the largest of the Hoth asteroids.

And I don't buy this notion that holo-com signals can't be sent between shielded vessels.

Concession accepted then.

[/quote]

Now you're resorting to self-appointed victories whiling hiding behind a wall of infinite ignorance. Get off the messageboard before more people find out how much of a moron you are.

[His Divine Shadow]

I'm given you proof you little prick. The velocity (.85c-.95c) and mass (1 kg) of the offensive missiles are given for anyone to make the calculations. You have given neither for any of the SW projectile weapons. You should be the one to shut it.

Give the fucking proof that they cannot you imbecile, your weirdass use of the G forces when doing a turn and using it as the linear acceleration capability of, I've given shitloads of proof that they can accelerate ships and fighters to large fractions of C, and these fighters use missiles too, ergo the missiles must be able to attain these velocities even faster, basic logic, though I never expected you to bother with that amidst your well known whining sessions about warsies, as seen in other threads and so on.

Sematics? Is that what fanatic, inbred Warsies call their opponent's arguments?

No proof, no counter argument, no nothing, just a desperate insult about the mean warsies, as usual, ok, concession accepted, again.

No, he said the damage 'we' sustained, as in the Imperial fleet searching for the Millenium Falcon in the Hoth asteroid.

Unproven so far, what is meant by damage can mean just a little rocking from asteroids impacting on the smaller ships and knocking some droids over, whilst such a thing would easily have destroyed the MF, and many more people would disagree with you than agree with you, but then again, you cannot prove any damage was done to any ISD by asteroids, nor can you ignore the fact that alteast 15 lesser vessels excluding fighters where in the fleet.

If the ships sustained any damage from the Hoth asteroids, they won't be able to stop the offensive missiles from pentatrating the shields and hull of a star destroyer.

Unproven so far, so is that any ISD's suffered any problems from the asteroids and not the far more numerous and lesser ships in the fleet.

The offensive missiles produce hundreds of time more force and hundreds of millions of times more sheer stress than even the largest of the Hoth asteroids.

The Millenium Falcon survived being 1000km from a neutron star without ill effects, Sw technology has been shown to be able to repel the effects of black hole level gravitational effects, thats force and pressure beyond what you are talking about, there is a reason KE weapons went obsolete in the SW universe and only used by backwater planets who can't afford better.

Now you're resorting to self-appointed victories whiling hiding behind a wall of infinite ignorance. Get off the messageboard before more people find out how much of a moron you are.

LOL!
You've not _really_ responded to a single one of my arguments so far, just stepping aside the issue and bringing up what if's and maybes and not a shred of proof, whilst trying to perpetuate contradictions amongst the evidence.

Take it from me, people _do_ consider you far more of a moron than they do me, but I guess thats because I'm not competing with DarkStar for the olympic gold medal in spin-doctoring.
And then there's the fact that you just flat out refused hard proof.
Sure fire ways of getting the idiot award of the week.

[His Divine Shadow]

This part might be confusing for simple minded people:

your weirdass use of the G forces when doing a turn and using it as the linear acceleration capability of

This is what I mean, it's totally stupid to use the G forces experienced in a turn as their linear acceleration capability.

[His Divine Shadow]

Oh and more proof of the obsolesence of KE weapons:
The Cal-class Warship, an ancient OR warship, 3000m in lenght, armed with huge mass drive weapon mounted atop the main hull.

It's design was obsoleted with the advent of full-ship shielding and turbolaser technology.

Also the Kumauri Battleship.
Used around 10,000 years before the Battle of Yavin.
It was best-known for the huge mass drive weapon slung over its main hull.
Again, this was made obsolete too with shields and turbolasers.

References: Cracken's Rebel Operatives

[septesix]

All these are very nice examples, but they lack any concerte numbers to indicate the possible accleration speed.

Can someone who's better at math doing some calc to see if they match or suppress the Andromeda's projectile weapon?

[NecronLord]

what with? you mean can any of us outrun it?

specify?

[His Divine Shadow]

All these are very nice examples, but they lack any concerte numbers to indicate the possible accleration speed.

Can someone who's better at math doing some calc to see if they match or suppress the Andromeda's projectile weapon?

Impossible to judge, save to say that given the demonstrated power generation levels of SW they could most likely create KE weapons of equal potency or even surpass that wich is used by the andromeda.

However it's been stated many times that KE weapons where obsoleted with the advent of shields, and turbolasers have kinetic effects themselves infact, like visibly being able to push a multi-million ton dreadnaught in Dark Apprentice(IIRC).

And the quotes about bracings being able to take recoil in the GT range are also a factor, maybe it would interesting to know that these same bracings, or more likely a larger and stronger version would be in place around the shields and most likely spread through some part of the ship, making sure that any KE or momentum can be tackled through one dedicated system, instead of being faced by the armor itself.

The point however is that the argument that SW systems would, or should, have any vulnerability to KE weapons is a sorely unsubstansiated one given the evidence involved.

And not a single shred of proof has been shown to the contrary, except one highly flimsy interpreptation that does not jive with the rest of the SW universe, any objective, or even sane person can see that for what it is.
Nor is it proof either, it's just a contradictory opinion of DarkStar levels of spin-doctoring.

That and I was pissed as I've seen how crossover_maniac started whine about how the warsies are being mean and chaning canon policy and whatnot(which he started with in the debate with C. Macleod) and making flimsy and even outright wrong statements and holding them up as facts.

[His Divine Shadow]

Meh, it's like the others said, it's like trying to talk reason to a wall, futile.
Say what you wish Crossover_maniac, spin-doctor the quotes from TESB and try and contradict the rest of the SW universe all you wish, no objective party is going to believe it.

[Master of Ossus]

This is why the SW universe doesn't make use of projectile weapons. They lack the ability to accelerate projectiles to the speeds in a relatively short time necessary for combat, while TL fire travels at c.

Prove it, or shut the fuck up.

I'm given you proof you little prick. The velocity (.85c-.95c) and mass (1 kg) of the offensive missiles are given for anyone to make the calculations. You have given neither for any of the SW projectile weapons. You should be the one to shut it.

Actually, projectile weapons are still used in SW, but only in very rare occurences. For instance, Zam Wessel's weapon from AotC was a projectile rifle. It demonstrated exceptionally little recoil for the damage that it did, which to me indicates that it utilized exotic systems to accelerate the slug it fired. Also, the Senate Guard's rifle is a projectile weapon, though we have never seen it in use. The acceleration demonstrated by the X-Wings rounding Yavin, and by the Imperial Fleet as it maneuvered around Endor, demonstrates that SW has very good acceleration abilities of its own, but not necessarily ones that can easily be translated into firing high-velocity projectiles.

[omegaLancer]

In defense of Andromeda, compare to ST, they are a very good match for the SW universe..

I also find it very unique, as for the most part the logic behind the Technology is very well throught out..

IT has it unbelievable moments like all Sci Fi, but the fact is for a TV series it as close to True Sci Fi as you can get..

I find that Dilan is a little 2 D, and I find that Tear is one of the better character on the show.. And the Almost empty XMC is a get a little tiresome..

But it took a good turn when they introduce the MWS and the threat facing the 6 Galaxies...

The fact that both SW and CW seem to be equal in many ways sometime make the boardings a little Rude.. I find that Crossover a ver knowledge person with a good agruement about the KE missiles, it the same Wong raised on his Wed site to show weakness in the Federation shield units..

But he forget that Unlike ST ( which state that their Shield are base on gravity), SW never truily delves into the Mechanism of how particle shields would stops collisions...but he does make a good agruement..

But compare to other Sci fi universe both SW and CW are mid power Galactic culture..

[HemlockGrey]

Agreed. Each has it's strong points. I think the GE's best opening tactics would be using a Galaxy Gun barrage to knock out Tarn Vedra, Fountainhead, and a few other key worlds.

[starfury]

In defense of Andromeda, compare to ST, they are a very good match for the SW universe..

I also find it very unique, as for the most part the logic behind the Technology is very well throught out..

IT has it unbelievable moments like all Sci Fi, but the fact is for a TV series it as close to True Sci Fi as you can get..

I find that Dilan is a little 2 D, and I find that Tear is one of the better character on the show.. And the Almost empty XMC is a get a little tiresome..

But it took a good turn when they introduce the MWS and the threat facing the 6 Galaxies...

The fact that both SW and CW seem to be equal in many ways sometime make the boardings a little Rude.. I find that Crossover a ver knowledge person with a good agruement about the KE missiles, it the same Wong raised on his Wed site to show weakness in the Federation shield units..

But he forget that Unlike ST ( which state that their Shield are base on gravity), SW never truily delves into the Mechanism of how particle shields would stops collisions...but he does make a good agruement..

But compare to other Sci fi universe both SW and CW are mid power Galactic culture..

yeah, the CW and the Empire actually make good oppoents as neither as a overwhelming advantage over the other unlike the low level ST/bt etc.
it means that one can make a actually debate as opposed to those other matches.

[Crossover_Maniac]

The offensive missiles produce hundreds of time more force and hundreds of millions of times more sheer stress than even the largest of the Hoth asteroids.

The Millenium Falcon survived being 1000km from a neutron star without ill effects,

Could it be because it was in orbit around the neutron star and in a state of free fall?

Sw technology has been shown to be able to repel the effects of black hole level gravitational effects, thats force and pressure beyond what you are talking about, there is a reason KE weapons went obsolete in the SW universe and only used by backwater planets who can't afford better.[/quote]

The same Millenium Falcon that can take black hole level gravitational effects dodges asteroids. If the Falcon had that much resillance, it would have flown into the asteroids without any worry.