Why is the First Cause Argument Flawed?

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Wicked Pilot
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

The Question wrote:It's not a question of whether one can tear apart FC once described, it's whether one can be described as a great atheist debater if they don't even have familiarity with Day One arguments like FC.
What the fuck, are you illeterate or just plain stupid?

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Post by The Question »

AdmiralKanos wrote: At what point did anyone say that this was about proving that one is a "great atheist debater" rather than debating points?

I did in my first post, the one for which you labeled me a "smart ass." ;)
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Post by The Question »

Wicked Pilot wrote:
What the fuck, are you illeterate...


That stands virtually without comment.

And no, it ain't a typo because the i and the e key are on opposite ends of the keyboard.

:lol:
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

The Question wrote: And no, it ain't a typo because the i and the e key are on opposite ends of the keyboard.

:lol:
Wow, aren't you clever. Did you think of that all by yourself? Would you like a cookie for your crusade against misspelling?
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Post by Darth Wong »

Let me summarize the thread so far:
  • Evilgrey: atheists always say they can defeat the first cause argument. Well, bring it on!
  • Everyone else: OK, please define "first cause argument".
  • Evilgrey: no, I don't wanna.
  • Everyone else: You can't issue a challenge without defining it first.
  • The Question: ha ha ha, you guys don't know what "first cause" is! You're a bunch of dumb-asses!
  • Me: don't play games.
  • The Question: who, me?
The subject of this debate is not "is every person on this forum a "great atheist debater" with considerable experience dealing with dumb-ass religionist arguments. There is no reason why someone can't walk in cold, with no knowledge of philosophy at all but a solid logical mindset borne of scientific training (for example) and annihilate the "first cause" argument the moment it is defined, and the fact that he is unfamiliar with the opposition does not mean he is incapable of crushing it, nor does it excuse your obvious change of subject.

In short, you seized an opportunity to take potshots from the sidelines without participating in the subject matter of the debate at all. That is known as heckling, not debating or even arguing.
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Post by Darth Wong »

The Question wrote:And no, it ain't a typo because the i and the e key are on opposite ends of the keyboard.

:lol:
For someone who likes to take potshots on matters of philosophy, your willingness to resort to red-herring nitpicks is unbecoming.
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

We need a custom title for Sheep Fucker here.
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Post by kojikun »

i think its an insult enough for him to be storm rucker.
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Post by Grand Admiral Thrawn »

WHAT THE HELL IS FC?!
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Post by Grand Moff Yenchin »

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:WHAT THE HELL IS FC?!
Obviously Evilgrey is having problems looking it up in the books :D
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Post by Enforcer Talen »

Im presuming, the universe couldnt have happened with a creator. the question to that is, who created the creator?

in chat rooms, theyve said he was always there. I say ok then, the universe was always there. they dont like it :lol:
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:WHAT THE HELL IS FC?!
Everything has a cause, therefore God.
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Post by Andrew J. »

Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:WHAT THE HELL IS FC?!
A really stupid fallacy.

"The universe can't have come from nowhere, therefore God made it."
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Post by Wicked Pilot »

Andrew J. wrote:therefore God made it.
God? Not the Great Potato?
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Post by Grand Admiral Thrawn »

:wtf:



THAT is this great First Cause? The most beaten down argument ever? :banghead:
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Post by neoolong »

Andrew J. wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:WHAT THE HELL IS FC?!
A really stupid fallacy.

"The universe can't have come from nowhere, therefore God made it."
Yup. Making that arbitrary distinction that God doesn't need a cause himself.
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Post by Grand Admiral Thrawn »

Wicked Pilot wrote:
Grand Admiral Thrawn wrote:WHAT THE HELL IS FC?!
Everything has a cause, therefore God.


Okay EvilGrey. Answer:


1. Why does the universe need "God" as a "cause"?

2. Why is the Christian god the only possible "cause" of the universe? Why not the Great Pumpkin?

3. What is God's cause?
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Post by Kuroneko »

  1. Events happen.
  2. Events have a preceding cause.
  3. Every causality chain has a first member.
  4. Therefore, there a there exists an uncaused cause from which every event descends.
  5. Therefore, God exists.
Obviously, [3] is very suspect, and even if [1-3] are granted, [4] does not follow because there is no assumption that the 'first elements' of the causality chains are one and the same cause. Furthermore, even as much as [4] is granted, [5] does not follow.
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Post by Grand Moff Yenchin »

The First Cause is from St. Aquinas' Five Ways, all five ways are logic fuckups because they put God in a "should be there" position.

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Post by The Question »

Darth Wong wrote: The subject of this debate is not "is every person on this forum a "great atheist debater" with considerable experience dealing with dumb-ass religionist arguments.
Let's summarize it in your flawed opinion. :roll:


So what? I posited the opinion that you can't be considered a great atheist debater if you don't even know what FC is.

You haven't shown otherwise. Sure someone who can reason can tear FC apart once they hear it, but that still doesn't make them a great atheist debater.

You're making the mistake of ignoratio elenchi, Wong. :roll:

In short, you seized an opportunity to take potshots from the sidelines without participating in the subject matter of the debate at all.

At the point I took my potshot, there was no debate going on. :roll:

Not real observant on your part, Wong. Go back and look. :roll:

That is known as heckling, not debating or even arguing.


At the point I made that comment, there was no debate happening.

Pay attention, next time.
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Post by The Question »

Wicked Pilot wrote: Major Richard I Bong of the USAAF shot down 40 axis planes in WWII. But I guess he wasn't a great dogfighter because he never knew what a Mig-29 was. :roll:

:roll:

FC is not exactly a new technology. It's only an argument that's been around 1,000+ years.

:roll:
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Post by The Question »

Darth Wong wrote:
The Question wrote:And no, it ain't a typo because the i and the e key are on opposite ends of the keyboard.

:lol:
For someone who likes to take potshots on matters of philosophy, your willingness to resort to red-herring nitpicks is unbecoming.

It's not a red herring, Wong, it's an ironic observation. :roll:
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Post by SirNitram »

First Cause? That asinine 'Everything must have a cause' fallacy. Of course, Christians twist it so they don't have to answer it: God, himself, must have a Cause. Again, most mutlideity myths include a fix for this, but Christianity doesn't.

Incidentally, First Cause includes the silliness that Time is somehow finite. Every theory revolving around how the Big Bang went off involves the fact there were Universe(s) before it. Only in a Finite timeframe is there a First Cause. In the apparant infinite multiverse we here in Reality live in, there is no first cause. Turtles, as they say, all the way down.
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Post by aerius »

The Question wrote:<snips the garbage>
We had a dork like you a while back who also enjoyed causing shit from the sidelines. I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but I do remember this. The dumbass did not know the difference between logic & a labia. Keep it up and you'll end up just like him, gone & forgotten, only remembered by the blinding stupidity of your actions.
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Post by The Question »

^^^

Gee, and what you think of me is so important to my self-image. :lol: :lol: :lol:

:roll:
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