Evil?

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-06-15 09:09pm

In SW vs. ST debates, I hear alot that the Empire is evil.

What exactly is evil? How do you define evil?

Lets hear your thoughts.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-06-15 09:12pm

It's a matter of perspective as with all human notions like this. The Empire sees itself as righteous, purging the evil Rebels from the galaxy while the opposite is the image the Rebels see.

To most a serial killer will be seen as evil, to some sick few he may be seen as a god among men who is cleaning the gene pool or standing up to the oppressive laws that govern society.

Ot alternatively you could use an Evilon detector that picks up the subatomic particles called Evilons emitted by all relatively evil entities within the cosmos.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-06-15 09:12pm

Blowing up Alderan and e veryone on it certainly qualifes...

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2003-06-15 09:15pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Blowing up Alderan and e veryone on it certainly qualifes...

Not to mention the Ghorman massacre (Drop VSD on protesters, watch protesters go squish)

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-06-15 09:18pm

I would say that causing harm just for the sake of causing harm is bad. A strategic planet busting isnt inherently evil, not if its to prevent even more deaths. But doing it just because you want to.. thats evil.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-06-15 10:18pm

The Empire is based on the lust for power among its higher officials, most of the empire is the police forces that keep systems secure from piracy. The empire is basically a government that does its best to control piracy only to make sure no one gets their money. In ANH the emperor completely liquidates what's left of a populist ability to control the galactic government, and cedes the sectors off to the moffs who gain complete executive control. In other words completely killing off democratic ideas from the government.

Evil is, in the scenario provided, simply greed, powerlust, and control lust, but on a galactic scale.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-06-15 10:35pm

Causing harm = Evil

Causing aid = Good

Simple, but true. Now, the scales of justice are present(It is, overall, a good act to kill one man to save millions), but it's not flexible beyond aid and harm. Theist nonsense about 'souls' and 'ultimate good' only allow Evil to be perpetrated.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-06-15 10:44pm

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Blowing up Alderan and e veryone on it certainly qualifes...

Which means the Rebels are evil too. The Death Stars had billions on them...

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-06-15 10:55pm

I don't believe in necessarily evil forms of government, so I can't really comment on this. All governments can bring great good and great evil, but to state that a particular government is irrevocably bad is short-sighted.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-06-15 10:57pm

YT300000 wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote:Blowing up Alderan and e veryone on it certainly qualifes...
Which means the Rebels are evil too. The Death Stars had billions on them...

Someone hasn't seen clerks!!!

The idea is, the millions, not billions, on the DS1 were all soldiers who had collaborated in the destruction of billions and would do so again if not destroyed. The destruction of DS1 was justified.
Watch clerks to find out how they justify the destruction of DS2.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-06-15 11:59pm

YT300000 wrote:In SW vs. ST debates, I hear alot that the Empire is evil.

What exactly is evil? How do you define evil?

Lets hear your thoughts.

I will quite cheerfully declare I posted this topic 9 months ago.

I hope this time it gets more replies.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-06-16 02:17am

Enforcer Talen wrote:
YT300000 wrote:In SW vs. ST debates, I hear alot that the Empire is evil.

What exactly is evil? How do you define evil?

Lets hear your thoughts.
I will quite cheerfully declare I posted this topic 9 months ago.

I hope this time it gets more replies.

NEVER!
I'll never post there!

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-06-16 03:53am

well, this topic, on the same subject, get more replies.

I scarcely expect somone to search 30 pages for one old topic.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-06-16 09:54am

I define evil as a willingness to cause harm to others to your advantage alone.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-06-16 12:30pm

Intentionally inflicting pain or suffering on others, unless the objective benefits outweigh said pain or suffering.

Gross oversimplification.

Mitth`raw`nuruodo · Post by **Mitth`raw`nuruodo** » 2003-06-16 12:34pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:It's a matter of perspective as with all human notions like this. The Empire sees itself as righteous, purging the evil Rebels from the galaxy while the opposite is the image the Rebels see.

To most a serial killer will be seen as evil, to some sick few he may be seen as a god among men who is cleaning the gene pool or standing up to the oppressive laws that govern society.

I have to agree with that.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-06-16 01:15pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Intentionally inflicting pain or suffering on others, unless the objective benefits outweigh said pain or suffering.

Gross oversimplification.

Well, I might explain myself better. I didn't mean it as a narrow definition of evil, but it's certainly an example of evil.

Now, for a definition of evil what about "High disrespect for others because of excessive egoism or devotion to particular ideas"??? Or is that also an oversimplification.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-06-18 08:24pm

Woah. Lots of responses. Thanks everyone, I see this issue in a whole new light now.

btw, Enforcer Talen, I sypathasize. Not getting lots of replys can make anyone feel sad. haha

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-06-18 09:22pm

SirNitram wrote:Causing harm = Evil

Causing aid = Good

Simple, but true. Now, the scales of justice are present(It is, overall, a good act to kill one man to save millions), but it's not flexible beyond aid and harm. Theist nonsense about 'souls' and 'ultimate good' only allow Evil to be perpetrated.

Why is anyone obligated to adhere to your definition of good and evil?

Therein lies the fundamental problem in atheism with regards to the nature of good and evil... it's rooted in relativism!

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-06-18 09:25pm

EvilGrey wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Causing harm = Evil

Causing aid = Good

Simple, but true. Now, the scales of justice are present(It is, overall, a good act to kill one man to save millions), but it's not flexible beyond aid and harm. Theist nonsense about 'souls' and 'ultimate good' only allow Evil to be perpetrated.
Why is anyone obligated to adhere to your definition of good and evil?

Therein lies the fundamental problem in atheism with regards to the nature of good and evil... it's rooted in relativism!

Do you just look in dictionary and find big words to spout.

Okay for the dumbfuck

If I kill someone...thus causing HARM=bad

If I give someone money for them to buy food...thus aiding them=good.

And yes this is just the way atheists look at the world

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-06-18 09:29pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
EvilGrey wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Causing harm = Evil

Causing aid = Good

Simple, but true. Now, the scales of justice are present(It is, overall, a good act to kill one man to save millions), but it's not flexible beyond aid and harm. Theist nonsense about 'souls' and 'ultimate good' only allow Evil to be perpetrated.
Why is anyone obligated to adhere to your definition of good and evil?

Therein lies the fundamental problem in atheism with regards to the nature of good and evil... it's rooted in relativism!
Do you just look in dictionary and find big words to spout.

Okay for the dumbfuck

If I kill someone...thus causing HARM=bad

If I give someone money for them to buy food...thus aiding them=good.

And yes this is just the way atheists look at the world

If Joe Atheist believes murder and rape are good, and altruism is bad, then who are you to claim he is wrong? He is right insofar as atheism permits him to define good and bad for himself. Your are wrong insofar as your view of the aforementioned two concepts differ from his.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-06-18 09:30pm

EvilGrey wrote:
If Joe Atheist believes murder and rape are good, and altruism is bad, then who are you to claim he is wrong? He is right insofar as atheism permits him to define good and bad for himself. Your are wrong insofar as your view of the aforementioned two concepts differ from his.

I see...so you have no grasp on logic.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-06-18 09:31pm

All theistic people are inherently destructive, evil people. One look no further than the Inquisition, Crusades, and WWII Germany for proof.

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-06-18 09:31pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
EvilGrey wrote:
If Joe Atheist believes murder and rape are good, and altruism is bad, then who are you to claim he is wrong? He is right insofar as atheism permits him to define good and bad for himself. Your are wrong insofar as your view of the aforementioned two concepts differ from his.
I see...so you have no grasp on logic.

'Tis the nature of a relativistic ideology, my delusional friend.

EvilGrey · Post by **EvilGrey** » 2003-06-18 09:32pm

SirNitram wrote:All theistic people are inherently destructive, evil people. One look no further than the Inquisition, Crusades, and WWII Germany for proof.

LOL! A theist cannot be inherently evil as there is no such thing under your worldview.

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