Jehovah's Witness deception.

[Evil Jerk]

Where I live, a Jehovah's Witness comes around to bother everybody at their doors around every Saturday, but for a while I've noticed that they no longer actually talk about their cult.. er, religion.
Instead now they always come around and start asking people about drug problems in the area, crime and most recentley terrorism hopefully to engage you in a debate about it, they then hand you a leaflet which they claim is information about that, but it's actually JW propaganda, but the whole time they're actually talking they never actually mention them being JWs.

So I just want to know, anybody else here encounter this kind of JW misleading conversation?
I don't know how they think it'll work since I can still tell one a mile away (must be that glassy eyed stare of theirs) and it kind of says something right there about these people if they're no longer willing to actually talk about their religion outright and resort to such obvious deception.

[weemadando]

I remember an hardline Jewish family in Tassie opened fire on the Jehovahs witnesses with shotguns one day after the JW's refused to leave their property.

[HemlockGrey]

Reminds of a sign a neighbor put up after being harassed by the JW's.


'House protected by shotgun three days out of seven. Want to guess which?'

[omegaLancer]

That a minor one, I once was a JW ( as a child) and so was my whole family, and the biggest Deception had to be their belief on when the world was going to end..

All the time growing up, I listen to lecture after lecture that the world was going to end soon. The JW had deciphered from scriptures that the last generation ( which was born before WW1) was the sign post pointing to when this would occur..

The final days would occur to them sometime in the 70's and we would start seeing signs.. As a young child this scar me to no ends...

The 70's came and past and the date was move to the 80's... Again nothing..

These day when you ask JW about this, they will tell one of two things.. This prediction was never part of their teaching ( Big lie) and that it was a few renegade elements in the upper ranks, who preach it and that JW never on the whole gave validation to this ( lie number 2)..

It was not till a grew to an adult did I discover that had occur also very earily in founding of the Regilion.. That when it first was create another doom day prediction was preached ( this one had the end of the world happeningin the 40's)

[Crown]

I don't get harrased anymore, we just put up a sign saying we are Greek Orthodox, and we do not permit anyone on the property who are trying to convert us. Since the sign was up, not one JW came to the door.

I have no idea what JW preach about, and it's always interested me when I was younger, but my parents treat them like they are lepers or something.

[HemlockGrey]

I'm going out and buying that shotgun sign, personally.

[Alyrium Denryle]

but my parents treat them like they are lepers or something

As well they should

[Crown]

but my parents treat them like they are lepers or something

As well they should

Harsh

[Alyrium Denryle]

It was meant to be

[Crown]

Well alright then!

[Stuart Mackey]

I havent had JW twits near my place for about a year but the mention of them always makes me think of how my Granddad used to get rid of them. He would ask them "you guys do not belive in blood transfutions do you?"
{this was befor they became ok with it} they would say no, to which he would respond with "My daughter was born with heart defects,and blood transfutions was what saved he life, she would have died if your religion had its way" they never could stump him on that and always left after that wee speil.

[Sea Skimmer]

My town banned going door to door without a permit after a lot of harassment of our elderly residents by salesmen. "attempting to sell or dispense any item" is the wording IIRC.

Since then no Jehovah's Witness nuts have come around, they used to show up atleast once a year.

[Stuart Mackey]

My town banned going door to door without a permit after a lot of harassment of our elderly residents by salesmen. "attempting to sell or dispense any item" is the wording IIRC.

Since then no Jehovah's Witness nuts have come around, they used to show up atleast once a year.

I like the sounds of that, allthough something like that would require parlimentary legislation here, and would take three years at least to be passed.

[Chris OFarrell]

Just a little repost here from an artical Resident Evil posted on SB. Rather interesting and a reason why the JW teachings should IMO be considered little more then a cult that flatly covers up major crimes.

Price of 'disobedience'
For Jehovah's Witnesses who are excommunicated, family and friends become strangers

By James Borchuk, St. Petersburg Times
September 14, 2002

As far as her children and 6 million people around the world are concerned, Shirley Jackson is as good as dead, and has been for seven years.

In 1995, Jackson, a home health-care worker and a nanny who lives in St. Petersburg, Fla., was "disfellowshipped," or excommunicated, from Jehovah's Witnesses. Disfellowshipping is among the Witnesses' highest forms of discipline, reserved for those who disobey religious teachings and will not repent.

Witnesses are told to immediately shun the disfellowshipped, who are said to be certain to die at Armageddon. Witnesses must pass them on the street without so much as a hello. Sons, daughters, mothers and fathers are expected to cut off relatives, making exceptions only in cases of family business or emergency.

"No matter what they tell you, you will always be my daughter, and I will always love you," Jackson recently wrote in a letter to her daughter, to no avail. Rather than strengthen families, Jackson says, the Witnesses tear them apart.

Disfellowshipping is little known to outsiders, who recognize Witnesses only as the people who pass out magazines on Saturday mornings. But scandal in the denomination has opened a door to its core beliefs and operations.

In recent months, at least three Witnesses were disfellowshipped after talking to "Dateline NBC" about church leaders' handling of child molestation allegations. The action made national headlines and spurred former Witnesses worldwide to step forward with their stories.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe disfellowshipping is an act of love, intended to inspire sinners to change their ways so they eventually can apply to be readmitted to the faith.

The sanction is based on I Corinthians 5, which directs Witnesses to "remove the wicked from among yourselves" and is necessary, said Witnesses national spokesman J.R. Brown, to preserve the religion's "moral integrity and cleanliness" in a corrupt world soon to be destroyed by God Jehovah.


Disfellowshipped

Jehovah's Witness elders - all are men - are the equivalent of ministers in other religions. Though unpaid, they take on responsibilities such as teaching Bible lessons and passing on denomination policy. They also investigate Witnesses accused of committing crimes against other Witnesses. In some of these cases, the police are never called.

Among the elders' primary tasks is serving on small judicial committees that hear confessions and decide whether an offense calls for excommunication.

Excommunications are announced to the congregation, but elders never say why a person was expelled. Witnesses can only guess from a long list of offenses that range from smoking cigarettes to manslaughter. Homosexuality, fornication, drunkenness, slander, fraud, gambling, apostasy, fits of anger and violence, and adultery are others.

The excommunication announcement tells members to begin shunning that person. If they don't, they, too, risk being disfellowshipped. Fear of being disfellowshipped is gripping for many Witnesses. Because they believe that only Witnesses will be saved from death, many don't associate with non-Witnesses.

Being disfellowshipped, then, means losing your circle of friends, not to mention family members who remain in the faith.

Elders disfellowship 50,000 to 60,000 Witnesses around the world each year, Brown said.

"It's not an unusual occurence, as far as we're concerned," he said.


Jackson's journey

Shirley Jackson, 54, had been a Witness for nearly 20 years when she began having doubts.

In 1993, she said, her husband gathered his belongings in the middle of the night and abandoned her as she and her children slept. She said he had been violent, and she decided to divorce him. But Witnesses told her the only biblical justification for divorce is adultery, which she could not prove he had committed.

Jackson was also on shaky ground with the Witnesses because she had close friends who were not in the faith, she said. In interviews, Jackson and several others said Witnesses are not allowed to socialize with non-Witnesses unless they are proselytizing.

Brown, the Witnesses' spokesman, said this is not true, although differing interests sometimes make such relationships difficult.

After her husband left her, Jackson continued going to the Kingdom Hall five times a week and performing 10 hours of door-to-door service each month, but she didn't feel very spiritual. One day while going door to door, Jackson mentioned to another Witness, "When I go into a Kingdom Hall, I don't feel God's presence is there."

She became even more disillusioned in the mid 1990s when, she said, elders dismissed her suspicions that a fellow Witness was sexually abusing his 8-year-old daughter. No one called the police.

But law enforcement authorities eventually got involved, and the girl was found in a trashed home, having eaten ketchup sandwiches to quell hunger, Jackson said. Some months later, Kenneth Donald Weaver was arrested and placed on community control in 1995 for sexual activity with a child. Weaver, who has a lengthy criminal history, is now in prison.

Wavering in her beliefs, Jackson decided not to attend an annual assembly for Witnesses.

Her daughter was upset and told elders. They went to her home for a visit. They had charges against her, Jackson said:

One charge was "speaking out against a brother" with regard to the child molestation, she said. She said they told her to stop associating with her non-Witness friends. And someone had told them what she had said about not feeling God's presence in the Kingdom Hall.

The elders told her she had 24 hours to change her ways, Jackson said. She refused to comply and was disfellowshipped, her name announced in front of the congregation. She was not present.

Her daughter was 17 at the time. She moved out to live with other Witnesses, has not held a conversation with Jackson since and is now married and living in Alabama.

Two of Jackson's three sons are also Witnesses and don't speak to her, she said.


Two-witness rule

As with the Catholic Church, child molestation cases have brought the inner workings of Jehovah's Witnesses to the forefront. One case in Kentucky prompted former elder William Bowen to start asking questions.

At the center of the cases is the two-witness rule. The Witnesses abide strictly by their Bible, the New World Translation. The translation is published by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, the nonprofit organization in Brooklyn, N.Y., that acts as the Witnesses' headquarters and overseer.

Deuteronomy 19:15: "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin, in the case of any sin that he may commit. At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good."

As far as the Watch Tower is concerned, that means Witnesses can't take action against someone unless at least two people can verify an offense happened.

That standard is difficult to meet in cases of child molestation, where often only the victim and perpetrator are present.

About two years ago, Bowen began to suspect that a fellow elder in his congregation near Paducah was abusing the elder's daughter. In a review of Witness files, Bowen found that the elder had previously been accused of molesting someone else. Bowen says he got further proof that the daughter might also have been molested.

In keeping with Witness policy, he called the Watch Tower's legal department in Brooklyn for guidance. The department is staffed with lawyers who are Jehovah's Witnesses.

When Bowen described the situation, he says, he was told there was nothing to be done - the man had denied it, so there weren't enough witnesses. He would have to "leave it in Jehovah's hands."

Other former Witnesses who served as elders around the nation have since reported similar experiences.

Disgusted, Bowen resigned as an elder and started a nonprofit organization and a Web site for Witnesses who were victims of molestation.

Thousands logged onto his "silent lambs" site, he says. Many told stories of abuse that elders did not believe.

Bowen, 45, went public with his story. He and several other Witnesses were featured on "Dateline NBC." One woman, Barbara Anderson, had worked in the Watch Tower's research department and was concerned that the organization wasn't following up on abuse cases.

Bowen contends that tipsters told him the organization keeps a database with the names of 23,000 accused molesters.

Brown, the Witnesses' spokesman, would not discuss specific cases, but he scoffed at allegations that Witnesses protect child molesters. Yes, Witnesses believe in the two-witness rule, he said, but that's not the only way wrongdoers can be caught.

"It cannot be said that we will do nothing unless there are two witnesses," Brown said. He said Witnesses are not required to report crimes to elders before calling civil authorities. Victims and their families are free to call police at will, he said, although some don't choose to.

Elders' investigations work hand-in-hand with what Witnesses sometimes call "Caesar's law," Brown said. "We're not handling the criminality of this," he said. "We're handling the sin."

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Luckily, we don't have JWs where I live. I don't see them at my doorstep, they're not at my church, and they're not influential people trying to put Creationism into schools. Where I live, they only appear to be in the big cities. The closest thing I've ever seen to a JW was an ad in my newspaper "proving" that Christ would return. That makes at least one, but what's the worst one person is going to do?

[Raptor 597]

Luckily, we don't have JWs where I live. I don't see them at my doorstep, they're not at my church, and they're not influential people trying to put Creationism into schools. Where I live, they only appear to be in the big cities. The closest thing I've ever seen to a JW was an ad in my newspaper "proving" that Christ would return. That makes at least one, but what's the worst one person is going to do?

I only remember them coming too my house once, My om told them too leave. We near saw again most cause it's mostly Catholic. Though I know where one of their Churches are 50 miles away.

[Jack Lain]

The JW are practicing a belief that contradicts the very bible that they claim to follow. As such they are hypocrites and full of shit.

How anyone could possibly follow this cult is much beyond me. JW is proof that while evolution exists; it is not always for the betterment of the species.

[Australopithicus]

All this brings up the question: How much do you fools actually KNOW personally about Jehovah's Witnesses? I fanyone contradicts the Bible, it is those so - called 'Christians'. You're right, though, the supposed fact of evolution (or the much more likely fact of creation) isn't always for the betterment of the species. And you're living proof of it, buddy.

[Colonel Olrik]

All this brings up the question: How much do you fools actually KNOW personally about Jehovah's Witnesses? I fanyone contradicts the Bible, it is those so - called 'Christians'. You're right, though, the supposed fact of evolution (or the much more likely fact of creation) isn't always for the betterment of the species. And you're living proof of it, buddy.

Brrrr...

If you're not joking, then I might as well post this

For starters, I only take offense at groups who systematically try to convert me to beliefs I find offensive. I don't go out looking for them, so there's no way in hell they should be encouraged to keep going to my home and treat me like a child who should know better.
I have my personnal beliefs, religious or not, and I don't impose them at anybody.

Secondly, do not treat Evolution as a "supposed fact" if you're not willing to discuss those claims. Hence, I challenge you to prove the validity of Creationism upon Evolution. If you accept that challenge, kindly tell me so and I'll start a new thread consistent with the theme (or you start one)

If it was a joke, I'm sorry of not having understood it.

[Mr Bean]

My new line I use for JW's is

*Hmm very intresting
*exuse me for a second(Switch to old joke Ninja Gear)
However! I will only convert to your religion if you can defeat me in Hand to Hand Combat!



So far three out of three JWs have refused to take the challenge

I used to just burn thier paplets in front of them but this is funnier

[The Yosemite Bear]

My perfered Tactic is to be playing Metallica or The Rolling Stones really loud, and if you have female company over, make sure that the whole lot of you have as little on as possible, Not much can beat one friend of mine when he and his common law spouse, showed up saturday morinign (In flagrant).

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Perhaps, when the JW tells you to "see the light", shine a flashlight in his eyes. The more powerful, the better. Or, it was mentioned a while ago, answer the door .

Or, take the pamphlet, and say "Thanks. I needed firewood for the winter".

[Evil Jerk]

All this brings up the question: How much do you fools actually KNOW personally about Jehovah's Witnesses?

I know that they come to my house, bother me with their waffle and sometimes pose as legitimate buisness men, political surveyors and other disguises in order to further waste my time.
When they (somehow) found out that my family spoke Spanish, they sent Spanish speaking people around, which I find rather invasive and manipulative.
They are slimy, intrusive creeps, and what I've heard of the practises of their cult.. I mean, religion doesn't exactly make me feel better about them either.

I fanyone contradicts the Bible, it is those so - called 'Christians'. You're right, though, the supposed fact of evolution (or the much more likely fact of creation) isn't always for the betterment of the species. And you're living proof of it, buddy.

So.. why is creation much more likely?

[Colonel Olrik]

So.. why is creation much more likely?

Hey! stand off, Evil J.

I saw him first!

[Evil Jerk]

So.. why is creation much more likely?

Hey! stand off, Evil J.

I saw him first!

But.. but.. I want to dig at the Creationist too!