EU

[Enforcer Talen]

UK: EU "will be a new country" - end of soverignty Post #1 of 1

EU 'will be new country'
Saturday, 31 May, 2003, 11:07 GMT 12:07 UK
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2952328.stm

The draft European Union constitution will effectively create a "new country" of Europe, the Tories have claimed.

The Conservatives have fiercely attacked the constitution, with Tony Blair already rejecting their calls for a referendum.

The advent of a president and foreign secretary along with other elements of the new constitution would give it the character of a state, shadow foreign secretary Michael Ancram claimed.

But the government's chief negotiator on the constitution, Peter Hain, said the Tories' claims were "total waffle".

Mr Hain said the new framework stated the EU would stay a partnership of nation states.

He also echoed Mr Blair's claims the Tories' secret agenda was complete withdrawal from Europe.

But Mr Ancram utterly rejected the allegation and suggested the government was afraid of a full debate on the proposals from Valery Giscard d'Estaing's Convention on the Future of Europe.

"Tony Blair knows that is not our secret agenda," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

"What he is trying to do is start a dishonest debate, as opposed to the honest debate about what sort of Europe we want to see."

"The Europe which is now on offer from the Convention, which when you add all the bits together is actually the creation of effectively a new country," he said.

'National sovereignty'
But Mr Hain told the programme: "It is explicitly in this new draft constitutional treaty that it will be a partnership of nation states with national states' identities respected and it is clarified for the very first time that that will be the case.

"The Tories are not able to produce a single thing which gives a shred of evidence for the fact that this will be a superstate.

"When you look at all the things they have said - that our national sovereignty will be abolished - that is not true.

"That we will lose our seat on the UN Security Council - that is not true. That we will not be able to go to war without EU approval - that is not true."

Mr Hain said the current six-month presidency which rotates between states and the role of foreign policy chief Javier Solana meant the EU already had a president and foreign secretary.
Denial of reprimand

"I think what is really going on here on behalf of the Tories is [an attempt] to engineer and manufacture with their anti-European friends in the media, a crisis of confidence in Britain's position in Europe and to engineer out of that crisis a position in which there would be a demand for withdrawal."

Mr Hain denied reports he had been reprimanded last week by Tony Blair following a radio interview in which he appeared to suggest that next year's elections to the European Parliament would be a de facto referendum on the new constitution.

~I find this fascinating to watch, personally.

[TheDarkling]

Little tip for this side of the pond, the Tories are in no way to be taken seriously they only qualify as opposition because they are less of a joke than the Lib Dems.

That being said what do you find fascinating about it?

[Crown]

Acording to The Centre for European Reform in their analysis paper the Tories are full of shit, sort of speak. The UK government has won most if not all of their objections in the drafting of the Constitution.

Add to that, that the constitution is nothing more than a collation of all the previous treaties (which are fucking huge, boring and numerous), in one easy to read paper, which means that fundamentaly nothing has changed. In other words, the only differences that have been put forward are; permanent President (who's role is nothing more than chairman), EU passport, and IIRC a reworking of power in terms of majority voting.

The Constitution is meant to streamline the process of running and governing the EU when it expands, not to force new treaties upon member states.

Ohh and Durran if you read this, here is an article on the CAP reform, which you are right in that the EU spends half it's budget on, for a grand total of $44 billion, I just found it

[Enforcer Talen]

Little tip for this side of the pond, the Tories are in no way to be taken seriously they only qualify as opposition because they are less of a joke than the Lib Dems.

That being said what do you find fascinating about it?

the unification of a continent.

[UltraViolence83]

You know what this means: THE EU WILL INVADE THE US, THE LAST BASTION OF TRUE CHRISTIANS, ALONGSIDE THE RUSSIA-CHINA 100 MILLION MAN ARMY!


At least that's what the bullshit my uncle gorges on is.

[Enforcer Talen]

200 million.

the bible says 200 million.

course, Ive heard half a dozen interpretations on what means.

any bets when we get into space, they'll say it means the 200 million cities?

[CaptainChewbacca]

He must've seen Red Dawn.

Don't be so quick to give up your national sovereignty. This constitution puts the EU parliament in authority over national and local governments.

[UltraViolence83]

What I really hate is that it seems almost everyone around me thinks that Europe's gonna wage war on us as soon as they unite.

To be honest, it could happen. Just like Canada becoming a military communist power and sends death from the north.*



*I made that one up. I hope to god that no conspiracy nuts have taken it seriously.

[TheDarkling]

Don't be so quick to give up your national sovereignty. This constitution puts the EU parliament in authority over national and local governments.

That ship has already sailed and the benefits of an integrated Europe are worth it (more so for the smaller countries than the larger ones).

[Joe]

A budget of less than $90 billion, eh? The EU certainly has a way to go to become the superstate a lot of us on the right are raving about.

Of course, $44 billion is still far too much for farm subsidies. Anything more than $0.01 is too much, in fact.

[Crown]

A budget of less than $90 billion, eh? The EU certainly has a way to go to become the superstate a lot of us on the right are raving about.

But that's the point. The EU is a confederacy of nations. Not a federal monolithic body - yet, and possibly never.

Of course, $44 billion is still far too much for farm subsidies. Anything more than $0.01 is too much, in fact.

I disagree. The real problem with farm subsidies, is in the manner it is spent. That being it encourages farmers to produce more and more, even if the demand isn't there, then we dump it in Africa and thier farmers can't compete with Europe's subsidised produce. A re-structuring in terms of how the money is spent is desperately needed.