The Imperium vs The Empire

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-09-13 12:56pm

I belive they aren't meant to be to scale, it says so in the rules somewhere.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-09-13 08:43pm

Of course if the Titan technology was irreplacable they shouldn't be able to repair them either.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-09-14 02:33pm

The really annoying thing is that, unlike SW, to my knowledge nothing has ever been published saying that WH40K ships weapons can unleash XXX amount of destruction per shot. If they were to do this then we would have a much better idea about how their weapons compare.

Also what about Nova Cannons? If we take the view that 40K ships are 10+ KM long and slow then i think that Nova's would have a hard time hitting SD's. But if we take the idea earlier on this thread that 40K ships are about 3km long (but still slow) then i think that the Novas would have a better chance of hitting SD's.
Assuming that they can hit would Nova Cannon's do much against SD's?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-09-14 02:54pm

Please justify that comment about the repairs

I can repair a lot of damage to my computer. Deosn't mean I know how to make one from scratch.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-09-14 04:42pm

Nope but in the hands of someone trained to maintain one. You've been claiming the technology is irreplaceable. If it was they wouldn't have the tech to fix it.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-09-14 04:44pm

2000AD wrote:The really annoying thing is that, unlike SW, to my knowledge nothing has ever been published saying that WH40K ships weapons can unleash XXX amount of destruction per shot. If they were to do this then we would have a much better idea about how their weapons compare.

There is one quote from the old space hulk fluff that puts a missile at 600+ gigatons.

Also what about Nova Cannons? If we take the view that 40K ships are 10+ KM long and slow then i think that Nova's would have a hard time hitting SD's. But if we take the idea earlier on this thread that 40K ships are about 3km long (but still slow) then i think that the Novas would have a better chance of hitting SD's.
Assuming that they can hit would Nova Cannon's do much against SD's?

Black hole shells, Warp rift shells.. those are the only ones I can remember aside from the normal 'blow stuff up' shell.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-09-14 04:54pm

They can repair, they do not know how to repair all the systems. The reason they can repair them is that Sandard Template Construct tech was designed to be repaired by anyone, including the yokels of the imperium. It's a tribute to the rugedness of STC designs.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2002-09-16 02:32am

Cpt_Frank wrote:Size matters not. At least not in this scenario. The Imperial cruisers are roughly equivalent to a SD so it should be a very interesting fight which in the end will be decided by numbers and good tactics/strategies.

Imperial cruisers are "roughly equivalent"???

They're twice as big, for Tzeentch's sake!

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2002-09-16 04:18am

Am I the only person who thinks ground combat isn't going to be completely one sided? Blasters have got to be at least as effective as stub guns, and those will kill a space marine 1 out of 9 hits. AT-ATs are bigger than anything 40k has that's smaller then a Titan. Space Marines are just as stupid as Stormtroopers about wearing brightly colored armor in inappropriate situations, and their accuracy isn't much better either.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-09-16 04:23am

Well they can take injuries that kill normal humans and still fight also they do have tactical sense and they can wear cammo its just some chapters decide not too.In the origional Rouge Trader game it even shows pics of Marines in cammoflage as oes the $40k compendium

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2002-09-16 06:26am

Space Marines don't use stub guns...they use Bolters, which basicaly fire mini missiles that explode on contact...

Also, a SpaceMarine is more heavily armoured than the average Storm Trooper & marter...while they may pray litanies to their Primach and live pretty Monkish lives, they aint stupid when it comes to kicking the S**t out of things...

Space Marines generally wear bright colours (aside from because of tradition) because generally their atttacks are so brutal and loud that it doesn't matter what colour you're painted the enemy will know you are comming and be terrified...because as the phrase goes 'Space Marines fear nothing....becasue we are Fear incarnate'

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-16 09:38am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Cpt_Frank wrote:Size matters not. At least not in this scenario. The Imperial cruisers are roughly equivalent to a SD so it should be a very interesting fight which in the end will be decided by numbers and good tactics/strategies.
Imperial cruisers are "roughly equivalent"???

They're twice as big, for Tzeentch's sake!

But they don't have twice as much weapons emplacements do they?
Hell it'd be a pretty cool fight. 600 gigaton missiles actually could hurt the ISD.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-09-16 11:18am

Cpt_Frank wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Cpt_Frank wrote:Size matters not. At least not in this scenario. The Imperial cruisers are roughly equivalent to a SD so it should be a very interesting fight which in the end will be decided by numbers and good tactics/strategies.
Imperial cruisers are "roughly equivalent"???

They're twice as big, for Tzeentch's sake!
But they don't have twice as much weapons emplacements do they?
Hell it'd be a pretty cool fight. 600 gigaton missiles actually could hurt the ISD.

actually they do, the BFG rulebook says they have 'thousands' of weapons emplacements. It would depend on the age and tech level of the ship. a DAoT ship would easily be a match for an ISD, and maybe two or three, a newer vessel would probably come out 'lacking.' {read, get it's arse kicked}.

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2002-09-16 12:09pm

Oh how I'd love to see a show down between an Imperial Inquisitor and a Jedi Knight...

Even without Power Armour an Inquistor would be a dangerous opponent for a Jedi...

Both have 'strange' powers...The Jedi would be able to call on the Force. While the Inquisitor would be able to use his/her psychic powers to call on the power of the warp.

I can just imagine a duel...Lightsaber against Power Sword...great.

Though my bias falls on the side of the Inquisitor, I reckon the Jedi may have a chance depending how psychically gifted the Inquisitor is...

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-16 12:12pm

Inquisitor vs Sith would be much cooler (Force-Lighting!!!).

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2002-09-16 12:17pm

Yeah, Sith-lightning vs Psychic blasts...lots of pyro & surrounding carnage...

Plus lots of hyper-active sword play...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-09-16 12:18pm

It would depend on the inquisitor. Eisenhorn would probably be able to go toe to toe with vader and survive,(he's survived single combat with a warlord Titan)

DocHorror · Post by **DocHorror** » 2002-09-16 12:25pm

Or it would depend on the Jedi...

Despite what the SW gushers say I don't believe that all Jedi are or were s**t-hot fighters...but thats just my opinion...

Since not all Inquistors have psychic abiltites it could depend on the Inquisitor in question I suppose...tho those without powers are probably augmented in other ways (bionics, adrenal implants, etc..)

I'd like to put a Farseer up against a Jedi....hmmm...

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-09-16 01:21pm

Jedi vs. Alpha+ Psyker

Hell Eisenhorn isn't an alpha+ and he can make people's heads explode.. you start getting into stuff like daemonhosts and things just get ugly

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-09-16 01:24pm

Actually, Eisenhorn has a deamonhost, His name is Cherubael (its an it not a he!)

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-09-16 05:04pm

quote:
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Originally posted by Cpt_Frank:

quote:
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Originally posted by Simon H.Johansen:

quote:
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Originally posted by Cpt_Frank:
Size matters not. At least not in this scenario. The Imperial cruisers are roughly equivalent to a SD so it should be a very interesting fight which in the end will be decided by numbers and good tactics/strategies.
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Imperial cruisers are "roughly equivalent"???

They're twice as big, for Tzeentch's sake!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But they don't have twice as much weapons emplacements do they?
Hell it'd be a pretty cool fight. 600 gigaton missiles actually could hurt the ISD.
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actually they do, the BFG rulebook says they have 'thousands' of weapons emplacements. It would depend on the age and tech level of the ship. a DAoT ship would easily be a match for an ISD, and maybe two or three, a newer vessel would probably come out 'lacking.' {read, get it's arse kicked}.

you did say after all that the dauntless which is larger then the ISD is weaker then the imperial ships, the imperium does not use fighters as extensively as the empire either, requiring decdicated carrier versions of traditional ships as opposed to the SW almost every ship is a cruiser/carrier.

A 3 KM long lunar and the 1.6 impstar being closely matched does show that SW tech is more advanced at the lower levels, should be a awesome battle.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-09-16 05:06pm

consequences wrote: Space Marines are just as stupid as Stormtroopers about wearing brightly colored armor in inappropriate situations, and their accuracy isn't much better either.

A trained soldier in the 40K universe, eg. Imp. Guard, Eldar Guardian , has a BS of 3 which gives them a 50% chance of hitting assuming no modifiers, eg. cover,fast moving target . Space Marines have a BS of 4 which gives them a 66.7% chance of hitting before modidfiers. I haven't seen or read about stormies hitting two thirds of the time on average.
I have learned to fear Space Marine Shooting Phases, espescially if I haven't moved my tanks out of view of a devestator squad.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-09-16 05:07pm

* BTW, BS stands for Ballistic skill in 40K terms and not Bullshit

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-09-16 05:10pm

NecronLord wrote:Actually, Eisenhorn has a deamonhost, His name is Cherubael (its an it not a he!)

Demonhost Vs Jedi/Sith ? On cool fight IMO!

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2002-09-17 01:16am

NecronLord wrote:
Cpt_Frank wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote: Well Imperium ships can apperantly take a chunk of neutronium whacking into them (ref: Grey Hunter) and not be disabled.

We've also heard of multiple cases of Imperium fleets destroying planets. (I know Macharius destroyed several worlds, and I'm pretty sure a dinky little sector fleet was stated to have destroyed one in the Eisenhorn trilogy).
I know. I was saying things would get nastier if we had a daemonhost in a fight with a Jedi (Inquisitors are nasty enough as things stand).

"Cherubael?"
"Yessssss?"
"Kill it."

God that part firmly cemented ol' Cherry's bad-ass status

Well it depends which game you use. According to Inquisitor 67-85% hit rates are 'normal' for Space Marines and Veteran Guardsmen (I don't have the IG codex so I don't know if veteran squads have a different BS than normal).