The White Rose Rebellion vs The Netherese Empire

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-16 05:30pm

Exactly what it looks like.

The White Rose Rebellion is at the height of it's power, with the White Rose Reborn, the 50 Black Company soldiers, One-Eye, Goblin, a dozen windwhales, and a few hundred mantas.

The Netherese Empire is also at the height of it's power.

Victory is only achieved when the other side is utterly annhilated.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-09-16 06:00pm

I prolly don't know enough to be truly fair, but I think the Empire would eventually, eventually, stand victorious. Eventually is key.. Because it would be long, bloody, and there would be entire planes of existance where all life is twisted and unreal.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-16 06:08pm

I think it would be long, but not particularly bloody.

Let me rephrase that.

Long, but no one on the White Rose side would get particularly bloodied.

Since they don't have to hold territory, 50 soldiers and a dozen windwhales are enough to gradually annhilate the empire, because the Rose has a key advantage; namely, no form of magic can work within a few clicks.

Plus, a single windwhale can destroy cities and rip apart armies.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-16 06:10pm

My kingdom for an edit button.

That should have been 'no magic can work within a few kilometers'.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-09-16 06:13pm

I lay my evidence before you, Cyril.

1) Polaris' Pulse attack. Seen in the novel 'Sword Play'. This spell is a blast that's effectively either a nuke or a concentrated blast, but the only thing known to survive it is a Pit Fiend on it's home turf. It can also leave those inside it unharmed if Polaris wishes.

2) Tolodine's Killing Wind. Seen in 'Sword Play' and within the rules for Netheril. Can slay all beings caught in it. Cannot be outrun. Can be 'pumped' with the spellcaster's life force to be effectively unstoppable.

3) Dweamourkeepers. This is how Rose fails. Because, you see, regions where magic do not work exist on Toril. And Mystryl, Goddess of Magic, empowers her Faithful with the power to cast, unhindered, even in these regions where magic shuts off.

'No magic can work here! Fall, foul mages!'
'VOLHM!'
*Chain Lightning kills dozens, who, lacking in magical protection, are cooked*

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-16 06:24pm

Well, I'm not as familiar with the Netherese Empire as you are, but here are my points.

1) I haven't read 'Sword Play' myself. Can anyone cast this spell, or just Polaris himself?

2) Unless cast by the Dweamourkeepers, if it enters the sphere of null magic, it fails.

3) Dweamourkeepers could probably be overwhelmed by windwhales and mantas. Granted, mantas are fairly easy to slay, but the only beings ever to slay windwhales were the Dominator and the Limper, both demigods. A windwhales tentacles can scoop up and crush entire cities for it to feast upon. Dweamourkeepers are unlikely to be able to concentrate when they're faced by that and a hundred mantas flinging lightning at them.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-09-16 06:26pm

This is supposed to be inside the dead magic zone where Windwhales are flinging lightning at them? Because if it's outside, entire Enclaves will be heaping Aksa's Disintigrate and worse on them.

If it's inside, I don't know what to say. These things must be magical, yet they have full power within the sphere of negation?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-16 06:35pm

Windwhales don't fling the lightning, btw, mantas do.

And no, they're not magical. They're entirely biological, their twisted evolution caused by the Plain of the Fear, the change storms, and the dreams of Old Father Tree.

Lady says as much to Croaker, for one. In several instances during the novel The White Rose, the mantas are stated to be flying within the sphere, blasting away at the Ten Who Were Taken, who are flying carefully outside the sphere. They repeat this tactic when engaging the Limper, the Lady's forces outside of Horse(although the mechanical pedal-airships screw them over), and on several other occasions.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-09-16 06:44pm

I am afraid I have to do a little more research it seems.. This antimagic effect does not work like Realms Dead Magic Zones, which supress normal magic and evolved supernatural powers(And if flinging lightning isn't supernatural....). I respectfully ask for your patience.

And one question before I retreat to do some research. Does a spell cast outside the sphere dissipate at it's border?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-16 06:53pm

They do.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-16 07:12pm

Dammit! Why don't we have edit buttons?

Anyway, yes, spells flung at the border do dissipate. However, if someone did something permenant, i.e. the magic has dissipated and only the effect remains, it would hold.

For example, if someone transformed a person into a toad and sent them through into the sphere, the person would remain a toad. If it were just an illusion, the person would revert back to normal.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-09-16 07:26pm

Cyril wrote:Dammit! Why don't we have edit buttons?

Anyway, yes, spells flung at the border do dissipate. However, if someone did something permenant, i.e. the magic has dissipated and only the effect remains, it would hold.

For example, if someone transformed a person into a toad and sent them through into the sphere, the person would remain a toad. If it were just an illusion, the person would revert back to normal.

That sounds promising. Netherese Spelljammers don't run off a continuously powerful object, but an instantaneous spell which constantly powers them hereafter.

There's also Golems. An Iron Golem would be completely unharmed by those lightning bolts(Though they would slow it down, literally). The Lichlord's Army is gonna wreck unholy hell as it marches through. The Tarrasque, awoken during the height of Netheril, is another dangerous problem(Because, my friends, it cannot be permenantly killed in that time period).

Anyway. Back to looking into more detail.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-09-16 07:38pm

White Rose rebellion offed Dragons, Undead, etc.

The Lady and the Taken cast death spells like folks at ASVS toss around <Bleep> yous.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-09-16 07:47pm

THe Yosemite Bear wrote:White Rose rebellion offed Dragons, Undead, etc.

The Lady and the Taken cast death spells like folks at ASVS toss around <Bleep> yous.

And the Netherese have Tolodine's Killing Wind, which can scour an entire battlefield of level 20 characters.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-09-16 08:00pm

Soulcatcher and the like are notoriously hard to kill, come to think of it, the Black Company only killed one of the taken perminatly.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-09-16 08:08pm

THe Yosemite Bear wrote:Soulcatcher and the like are notoriously hard to kill, come to think of it, the Black Company only killed one of the taken perminatly.

Trust me, if there's a horrible, long lasting way of imprisoning/killing someone, the Netherese have found it. They are a fucked up society in many, many ways.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-16 08:36pm

Well, the Taken are irrelevant, as it's the Rebellion against the Netherese, not the Northern Empire.

However, I'm not sure about the Spelljammers. As long as they still need magic to work, they won't run, and since stuff like Prismatic Sphere won't work inside the null-magic zone, a lightning bolt volley should tear one apart.

As for the iron golems, the windwhales could simply grab them and throw them for hundreds of miles.

The Tarrasque is actually not that much of a problem; stick the Rebels onto one of the windwhales, watch it cruise a mile up, and crush the Tarrasque to death. Wash, rinse, and repeat.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-09-16 09:12pm

Spelljammers are iffy. They will, however, be able to fire in, since their weapons are primarily such nasty things as greek fire and flaming sulfur.

Iron golems will fight until thrown, and are immensely strong.

Since it appears supernatural abilities do work in this odd field, that means a number of powerful critters.. Dragons, enslaved fields, Phaerimm, Sharn, and so forth.. will still be able to fight. Dweamourkeepers will most likely be sent to cleanse this filth, this imperfection of the Weave, by their deity. Their ability to cast unhindered means alot of trouble.

Nevermind the trouble caused by casting Move Mountain, and letting the drifting mountaintop pass through the field, over the attackers... *SQUELCH*

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-09-16 09:13pm

Curse the lack of edit! Controlled fields should be controlled FIENDS.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-16 09:16pm

I dunno about supernatural powers, as if I recall, mantas' lightning bolts are entirely natural reactions. Mebbe.

However, the iron golems will not be much of a factor. I doubt very much they can hit a target that's a thousand feet over them, and the knock of a tentacle should send quite a few of them flying.

Dragons may be a bit of trouble, but even they would eventually succumb to the barrages of lightning bolts. Plus, windwhales are about a mile long. They're really frickin' big, and each one carries a few hundred mantas.

Croaker · Post by **Croaker** » 2002-09-20 04:27pm

I've been intending to register, figured I'd do so after reading this and finding out there're other people that've read The Black Company

I've haven't read any of Glen Cook's other works, so my question: Is this "Netherese Empire" from his Dread Empire series?

I've been using the name "Croaker" online for a year or so. I think I've used "Murgen" a couple times, too.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-20 05:18pm

Netherese Empire is a Forgotten Realms-type empire. Nothing by Glen Cook.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-09-20 11:04pm

Soulcatcher and the like are notoriously hard to kill, come to think of it, the Black Company only killed one of the taken perminatly.

Two. Stormbringer (whose name I took) and Shifter. Both went down for good in the the Black Companies southern campaign.

The Limper was finally put down by the forces of The Lady's Empire after he went mad.

Three out the Ten are dead for good. Soulcatcher is alive for sure, Howler is alive I believe, and the rest are presumed killed in action though never confirmed.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-09-20 11:12pm

And just long has Darling been given? Because the White Rose herself was supposed to have been able to shelter armies under her null field. Darling never got the chance to develop her full potential as the necessity of stopping the Dominator's ressurection ended the fight prematurely. Her power was supposed to be increasing even in The Silver Spike, after the fight with The Lady, Taken and the Dominator was over with.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2002-09-20 11:13pm

Question for the Purposes of this arguement, is that rat bastard "Crow" available?

Sure, nasty level necromancer in his own right, and capable of feats of archery that are beyond anything normal. (Killing a Netereese wizard with a single arrow would have some nasty effects, not to mention that evil fucking hound he's got.

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The White Rose Rebellion vs The Netherese Empire

Which semi-sorcerous side sticks it to the opposition?

The White Rose Rebellion vs The Netherese Empire