A question about the F-35

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-06-18 04:55am

The airforce version of the F-35 is supposed to mount a tactical laser. This laser can take out targets at ranges upto 10 kilometers away. Although it has a power of 100 W only that is quite sufficient against lightly armoured targets such missiles. This makes me wonder is the F-35 virtualy invincible to missiles since the lightspeed laser can takeout missiles easily ?

Embracer Of Darkness · Post by **Embracer Of Darkness** » 2003-06-18 05:03am

Got a link by any chance? I'd like to know more.

h0rus · Post by **h0rus** » 2003-06-18 05:27am

Embracer Of Darkness wrote:Got a link by any chance? I'd like to know more.

Check this out:

meh.

"A laser could also be employed as a defensive weapon in aerial combat, though the need to cool-down briefly after two or three consecutive discharges could prove a liability in a dogfight. Such an application would likely require a second, top-mounted, turret, however, limiting usable internal volume. The use of a laser weapon at supersonic speeds also presents another problem, as it would require adaptive optics to account for air density distortions caused by the supersonic pressure wave that forms around high-speed aircraft."

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-06-18 06:39am

h0rus wrote:
Check this out:

jinsa.org link

"A laser could also be employed as a defensive weapon in aerial combat, though the need to cool-down briefly after two or three consecutive discharges could prove a liability in a dogfight. Such an application would likely require a second, top-mounted, turret, however, limiting usable internal volume. The use of a laser weapon at supersonic speeds also presents another problem, as it would require adaptive optics to account for air density distortions caused by the supersonic pressure wave that forms around high-speed aircraft."

*plays the Imperial March*

Seriously, I'd like to see some corroboration on this. There's a lot of miniaturization that would have to be done to fit a laser that can be put into a 747 into the F-35...

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-06-18 06:42am

...Though, I wonder if we could put one on something about the size of the old B-58 Hustler? That might make for a feasable laser-armed interceptor.

NapoleonGH · Post by **NapoleonGH** » 2003-06-18 07:39am

mind you the big problem probably would be targeting a missile, they are damned small and fast.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-06-18 07:48am

The Air Force and Navy JSF will be equipped with a variant of the Mk 27 Mauser 27mm cannon- I suspect it'll be that way for the entire production run. It's just not realistic- if you want to use a laser it'd have to at least take up the same amount of space and have the same number of shots as a comparable cannon will offer.

The 27mm gun

I don't know where you heard the laser claim, but it's absolute nonsense. Maybe they're thinking about it in the future, but they most certainly do not have such a weapon available for use, nor will they.

A turret is just completely unworkable. One word: drag.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-06-18 09:54am

I smell bullshit with this article. I obviousily can't say it absolutely bullshit given that I don't work for Lockheed, but until there are some collaberating articles from the manufacturer or other sites such as fas.org, I will take this with half a grain of salt.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-06-18 09:59am

If its true then i think they watched too many sci-fi.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-06-18 10:10am

Vympel wrote:The Air Force and Navy JSF will be equipped with a variant of the Mk 27 Mauser 27mm cannon.

Great, a crappy Vulcan Replacement

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-06-18 10:24am

MKSheppard wrote:
Great, a crappy Vulcan Replacement

It's supposed to be more efficient than the M61 Vulcan- it doesn't take any time to spin up, for example. I guess we'll see. I'm surprised the Raptor isn't going to be equipped with it either. It uses the M61A2 (thinner barrels) like the F/A-18, IIRC.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-18 10:31am

I read about this quite awhile ago, lemme see if I can dig up some links. They're proposing using the STOVL F-35 varient for this particular version. IIRC, it's a 100kW laser; cycle is 4-sec fire/4-sec recharge/4-sec fire/30-sec cool.

AviationWeek had a good article online from last year, but it appears to be gone. Article 1. Article 2

New Scientist also has one.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-18 10:45am

Vympel wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:
Great, a crappy Vulcan Replacement
It's supposed to be more efficient than the M61 Vulcan- it doesn't take any time to spin up, for example. I guess we'll see. I'm surprised the Raptor isn't going to be equipped with it either. It uses the M61A2 (thinner barrels) like the F/A-18, IIRC.

The USAF has been looking for M61A2 replacements for awhile; the F-15 was supposed to have something similar to the 25mm that the AV-8 uses.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-06-18 11:12am

I have also heard of possible testbeds for a ABL on the F-35, though this is simply a future possibility as an upgrade to replace the gun if required, it is not a production option. The weapon would be powered by the gas turbine of the plane, I'm unsure as to waht type of laser it would be (solid state diode may be best or CO2).

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-06-18 03:30pm

Only the navy is interested and it would be a ground attack weapon only, mainly for destroying very small targets, such as an anti aircraft gun on a school roof. Its range would be a fraction of that of the ABL. This isn't a very absurd leap, the US Army is already working on a laser, which will be palletized and could be mounted on a Chinook.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-06-18 04:06pm

In related news, I flew in a demonstrator simulator for the JTF a few years ago.

The guy was upset that I managed to land on the carrier the regular way, because he wanted to show off the hover button.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-06-18 05:58pm

IIRC, it is to be mounted in the hole left for the STOVL version - not fit within the space for the cannon.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2003-06-18 07:54pm

Is it a 360-ball turrent? Otherwise a rear-fired missile would be a pain to hit.

I'd think you would need a separate gunner for this sort of thing.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-06-18 08:16pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Is it a 360-ball turrent? Otherwise a rear-fired missile would be a pain to hit.

Its not meant to shoot down anything, need I repeat this? Its field of view will be quite limited.

I'd think you would need a separate gunner for this sort of thing.

Using it is no more difficult then using a laser guided bomb, simpler really since you have to hold that lock for less time.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-06-18 08:21pm

Does anyone know what power rating this thing would have if implemented? At least a few kW I should think and likely in the IR spectrum.

Kuroneko · Post by **Kuroneko** » 2003-06-18 08:50pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Does anyone know what power rating this thing would have if implemented? At least a few kW I should think and likely in the IR spectrum.

That would be remarkably short-ranged.

Besides, the original post claims 100W.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-06-18 09:17pm

Kuroneko wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:Does anyone know what power rating this thing would have if implemented? At least a few kW I should think and likely in the IR spectrum.
That would be remarkably short-ranged.

Besides, the original post claims 100W.

The bulb lighting my room now has the same power.

Since the laser is hitting soft targets (lasers and armour don't mix) I don't expect the power output to be anywhere near that of the ABL or MTHEL which have longer ranges for a start anyway. IR is the most common type of laser frequency, though green/blue or ultraviolet would be better.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-18 10:06pm

100kW laser in four-second bursts.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-18 10:08pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Since the laser is hitting soft targets (lasers and armour don't mix) I don't expect the power output to be anywhere near that of the ABL or MTHEL which have longer ranges for a start anyway. IR is the most common type of laser frequency, though green/blue or ultraviolet would be better.

ABL is a megawatt-class laser, MTHEL probably won't be that powerful though.

Kuroneko · Post by **Kuroneko** » 2003-06-18 10:39pm

phongn wrote:100kW laser in four-second bursts.

Now it sounds more like a weapon! What is the timeframe of the bursts?