Aussies and 8 other nations - maybe more...

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weemadando
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Post by weemadando »

Stravo wrote: That part really bugs me, if you hate that aspect of your culture then why are your people gobbling it up, why is a mjorioty of the world hooked on American goods and pop culture? Could it be that they like it? I KNOW the French hate the fact that their culturally superior citizens eat at McDonalds and watch American movies and English phrases creep into their language but what can you do? Your people LOVE it, so suck it down like a good little consumer. I don't bitch about the made in China labels.
Its also the fact that in the face of such well supported cultural and economic invasion the majority of nations and their cultures CANNOT stand in the way of it - they are incapable of resisting.

Hell the main reason Australia has a US-centric culture is due to the massive amounts of cash loaded into CERTAIN AREAS of our economy during WW2 by American soldiers and sailors. As unlikely as it sounds, this served as the jump-off point for a "cultural revolution", which was by no means bloodless.

America exports its culture, by force if neccessary. Deal with it. Some countries accept it, some have to be coerced. Accept that fact. America is an invasive cultural phenomenon and to be quite frank despite the fact I have to live in it because of the actions of international relations and sociology for the last century - it doesn't mean I have to goddamn well like it.
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Post by Joe »

Its also the fact that in the face of such well supported cultural and economic invasion the majority of nations and their cultures CANNOT stand in the way of it - they are incapable of resisting.
Elaborate.
Hell the main reason Australia has a US-centric culture is due to the massive amounts of cash loaded into CERTAIN AREAS of our economy during WW2 by American soldiers and sailors. As unlikely as it sounds, this served as the jump-off point for a "cultural revolution", which was by no means bloodless.
How does US soldiers spending money = violent cultural Revolution?
America exports its culture, by force if neccessary. Deal with it. Some countries accept it, some have to be coerced. Accept that fact. America is an invasive cultural phenomenon and to be quite frank despite the fact I have to live in it because of the actions of international relations and sociology for the last century - it doesn't mean I have to goddamn well like it.
Again, elaborate.

You know, in America we call being fearful of foreign cultures xenophobia. I guess it's called something else abroad.
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Post by weemadando »

Durran Korr wrote:
Its also the fact that in the face of such well supported cultural and economic invasion the majority of nations and their cultures CANNOT stand in the way of it - they are incapable of resisting.
Elaborate.
So you believe that a nation that has no ability to maintain its own economy is going to turn down the assistance offered by the US? But what happens when that assistance comes in - its often sponsored by the corporations who will have their own interests.

In the case of Australia, it was an influx of US troops, who brought their own culture and promoted that, not really attempting to understand or integrate with the Australian culture. The economic superiority of the US at the time meant that this was greeted well as it brought money in, but it also CREATED a whole new culture in Australia, that has eventually risen to dominance.
Hell the main reason Australia has a US-centric culture is due to the massive amounts of cash loaded into CERTAIN AREAS of our economy during WW2 by American soldiers and sailors. As unlikely as it sounds, this served as the jump-off point for a "cultural revolution", which was by no means bloodless.
How does US soldiers spending money = violent cultural Revolution?
Lets start with the Battle of Brisbane, move on to other nations where you see anti-globalisation movements, and others now where they are striking at those who they see as the forerunners of this kind of culture, such as Peace Corps volunteers etc.

Violent cultural revolution is common, but its usually a part of something larger and goes un-noticed or unassociated with the change in culture.
America exports its culture, by force if neccessary. Deal with it. Some countries accept it, some have to be coerced. Accept that fact. America is an invasive cultural phenomenon and to be quite frank despite the fact I have to live in it because of the actions of international relations and sociology for the last century - it doesn't mean I have to goddamn well like it.
Again, elaborate.
OK, at the cinema 9 times out of 10 its a US movie running? Why? Not because its better than the others. Not because there are no others, but merely because they have the money to sell the movie via advertising and they can BUY screen time. Lets look at TV - same thing, there is a HUGE amount of US shit on the TV. Why don't we get British films? Or Hong Kong, or French? Its not because they're of a lower standard - its because they simply don't have the capital with which to purchase audiences.

Now, I don't care if this is the way that Australia has become, I don't have to like it. And if you can't accept the fact that I don't like the way it is, then well, I suppose the problem is on your end.
You know, in America we call being fearful of foreign cultures xenophobia. I guess it's called something else abroad.
Actually xenophobia is a fear of foreigners, fear of foreign cultures can generally be referred to as being insular. And I don't think I or anyone else is fearful of American culture, we're fearful of the loss of our own.
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Post by Hobot »

SPOOFE wrote:
We already know foreigners hate us
Yet if you offered most of them the chance to live in America, they'd take it without hesitation... makes you wonder what they really hate, don't it?
Actually 79% of the people surveyed in the 10 countries said they would not want to live in the US.
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Post by Howedar »

I think he was mostly talking about the Pakistanis and Saudis and such.


Weemadando, you don't have to like it. We don't have to care.
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Post by Gandalf »

weemadando wrote:And I don't think I or anyone else is fearful of American culture, we're fearful of the loss of our own.
Amen brother.
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Post by SPOOFE »

You know, in America we call being fearful of foreign cultures xenophobia. I guess it's called something else abroad.
Yeah. "Trendy."
Actually 79% of the people surveyed in the 10 countries said they would not want to live in the US.
Cite? Ten bucks says they polled Canada, Australia, and most of Europe. Move the poll to Africa, South America, or the Far East and you'll see opposite results.
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Post by Col. Crackpot »

hobot wrote:Actually 79% of the people surveyed in the 10 countries said they would not want to live in the US.
"Figures can lie, and liars can figure"
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Post by TheDarkling »

Cite? Ten bucks says they polled Canada, Australia, and most of Europe. Move the poll to Africa, South America, or the Far East and you'll see opposite results.

So what you are saying is people who live in 3rd world hell holes would rather live in the USA frankly that is a no brainer.

Those with the highest % were Brazil and Israel (25%) then the UK and Korea(24%) and finally Indonesia (23%) after which there is a drop off.

All the results of the various polls are here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/p ... efault.stm

The results (same as this thread) seem to indicate that Americans have an over inflated sense of their countries desirability compared with other nations (so far as the polls can be trusted).
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Post by Darth Wong »

Col. Crackpot wrote:
hobot wrote:Actually 79% of the people surveyed in the 10 countries said they would not want to live in the US.
"Figures can lie, and liars can figure"
-Samuel Clemens
Perhaps you could provide some kind of countervailing evidence, then.

I know many Canadians who moved down to the US and then came home again, because they like it better here. While I'm not saying America must be a horrible place, I do think that their "we're the best place in the world and everyone wants to come live here" self-perception is wrong.
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Post by Joe »

So you believe that a nation that has no ability to maintain its own economy is going to turn down the assistance offered by the US? But what happens when that assistance comes in - its often sponsored by the corporations who will have their own interests.
So we should shell out billions of dollars to help people and expect nothing in return? God, we can't even win with you when we help people.
Lets start with the Battle of Brisbane, move on to other nations where you see anti-globalisation movements, and others now where they are striking at those who they see as the forerunners of this kind of culture, such as Peace Corps volunteers etc.
Oh, come on, the Battle of Brisbane was just a horrible, horrible mistake that Australians certainly must share some of the blame for. Don't pin it all on us. It wasn't in any way a reaction to the influx of American culture (which hadn't even really started yet).
OK, at the cinema 9 times out of 10 its a US movie running? Why? Not because its better than the others. Not because there are no others, but merely because they have the money to sell the movie via advertising and they can BUY screen time. Lets look at TV - same thing, there is a HUGE amount of US shit on the TV. Why don't we get British films? Or Hong Kong, or French? Its not because they're of a lower standard - its because they simply don't have the capital with which to purchase audiences.
Australians pay to go see American movies. It's not our fault that we have little competition in that market. There's no force at work here. No coercion. Just American companies trying to sell people cool stuff.
Now, I don't care if this is the way that Australia has become, I don't have to like it. And if you can't accept the fact that I don't like the way it is, then well, I suppose the problem is on your end.
Actually xenophobia is a fear of foreigners, fear of foreign cultures can generally be referred to as being insular. And I don't think I or anyone else is fearful of American culture, we're fearful of the loss of our own.
Nice hairsplitting.
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Post by Howedar »

Darth Wong wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:
hobot wrote:Actually 79% of the people surveyed in the 10 countries said they would not want to live in the US.
"Figures can lie, and liars can figure"
-Samuel Clemens
Perhaps you could provide some kind of countervailing evidence, then.

I know many Canadians who moved down to the US and then came home again, because they like it better here. While I'm not saying America must be a horrible place, I do think that their "we're the best place in the world and everyone wants to come live here" self-perception is wrong.
You may want to shoot me for this, but I think a great many Americans see Canada as part of that "we" and "here".
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Post by Hobot »

Col. Crackpot wrote:
hobot wrote:Actually 79% of the people surveyed in the 10 countries said they would not want to live in the US.
"Figures can lie, and liars can figure"
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Post by Lord Poe »

Darth Wong wrote:I know many Canadians who moved down to the US and then came home again, because they like it better here. While I'm not saying America must be a horrible place, I do think that their "we're the best place in the world and everyone wants to come live here" self-perception is wrong.
I know many Canadians who moved down to the US and then STAYED: William Shatner, Michael J. Fox, Jim Carrey, James Doohan, Lorne Greene, Kiefer Sutherland, Donald Sutherland, Raymond Burr, Jason Priestly.... 8)
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Post by RedImperator »

I went through the results. They were actually better than I thought they'd be. I was a little surprised by the number of people who didn't want to come here at first, but if you think about it, it makes sense--non-Americans are just as fond of their homelands as we are, and even if that homeland is a third world shithole like Indonesia, they'd rather try to make it there then cross the ocean to start all over again. And in retrospect, it's silly to think that someone in another modern, industrial, democratic state would want to emigrate unless they had a very specific reason, like a job offer in this country.

We do have a reason for thinking everybody wants to come here, though: with the exception of blacks and Native Americans, every living American either willingly abandoned his homeland to come here or descended from someone who did the same. We assume that everyone who stayed behind is kicking himself for not going, even though they're obviously not.
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Post by Col. Crackpot »

Darth Wong wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:
hobot wrote:Actually 79% of the people surveyed in the 10 countries said they would not want to live in the US.
"Figures can lie, and liars can figure"
-Samuel Clemens
Perhaps you could provide some kind of countervailing evidence, then.

I know many Canadians who moved down to the US and then came home again, because they like it better here. While I'm not saying America must be a horrible place, I do think that their "we're the best place in the world and everyone wants to come live here" self-perception is wrong.
granted, a great many people here do labour under mis-guided self perception, but there are just as many, if not more in other parts of the world who labor under the delusion that "America is bad" or "the west is evil" because my Imam/sociology professor/disgruntled co-worker says so.
Also, throughout the years the people who have come to the US (and Canada for that matter! Isn't the population of Toronto 40% foreign born?) have been desperate people looking to better themselves. Those people (my family included) will always exist, and they will keep coming. If at the end they want to go home with the things they have accumulated (like my grandmother who moved back to Ireland) lets be careful not to so easily say that they moved home because they didn't like the US (or Canada, the UK etc.)
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Post by LordShaithis »

Gee Ando, I wonder why all those American movies are at the Australian theater. Is it because PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THEM? If they didn't make money, would they still be there?
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Post by Graeme Dice »

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Gee Ando, I wonder why all those American movies are at the Australian theater. Is it because PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THEM?
Or is it because you've managed to set up a near monopoly.
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Post by Stravo »

Graeme Dice wrote:
GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Gee Ando, I wonder why all those American movies are at the Australian theater. Is it because PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THEM?
Or is it because you've managed to set up a near monopoly.
Is it a monopoly because it was set out to do that or because it is so successful?? IMHO most monoplies come from the fact that the underkying product is sucessful, what is done with that market share in esatblishing a monopoly is another matter alotogether. If people like the American product over the home grown we have market forces making teh decisions. If American movies sucked ass there's very little one can do to set up such a monopoly.

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Post by Joe »

Or is it because you've managed to set up a near monopoly.
Except for the fact that there are several companies that distribute films in Australia, not just one. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with what a monopoly is before criticizing American corporations of it.
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Post by Graeme Dice »

Durran Korr wrote:
Or is it because you've managed to set up a near monopoly.
Except for the fact that there are several companies that distribute films in Australia, not just one. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with what a monopoly is before criticizing American corporations of it.
It's an essential monopoly of American companies. An oligopoly if you prefer, but the concept is no different.
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Post by Graeme Dice »

Stravo wrote:Is it a monopoly because it was set out to do that or because it is so successful?? IMHO most monoplies come from the fact that the underkying product is sucessful, what is done with that market share in esatblishing a monopoly is another matter alotogether. If people like the American product over the home grown we have market forces making teh decisions. If American movies sucked ass there's very little one can do to set up such a monopoly.
There are enormous entry barriers in the filmmaking industry, from the distribution networks that are controlled by a few companies to the high startup costs. The quality of American made films doesn't matter much when other films can't overcome the barriers put in place by American companies.
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Post by Joe »

It's an essential monopoly of American companies. An oligopoly if you prefer, but the concept is no different.
It's a system of monopolistic competition (the ideal model of competitivity) that happens to be dominated by American corporations.
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Post by Joe »

Actually, forget that. It's somewhere in between oligopoly and monopolistic competition; there are barriers to entry, like in oligopoly, but the industry lacks the other characteristics of oligopoly.
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Post by LordShaithis »

It's called "We have a fraction of Hollywood's budget and every decent actor we get just runs off to America anyway" syndrome.
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