Thoughts on Neo's coma...

[Steven Snyder]

Before I get anywhere, I subscribe the the dual matrix theory. I believe that Zion is also a matrix, that is somehow connected to the City-Matrix.

After Neo disabled the sentinels in the Zion matrix he loses consciousness and we are later told he is in a coma. I have been trying to figure out why he is in a coma, and I think I have come up with an answer that may explain it.

After leaving the City-Matrix and returning to the Zion-Matrix, Neo realizes that he is still within an artifical reality. Perhaps he was so wrapped up in the moment he 'forgot' that he wasn't in the City-Matrix and that he still had special abilities. He may have caught a glimpse of the digital reality that surrounded him.

So the sentienls come out and give chase, but Neo tries something new. He simply attempts to use powers that he would normally have in the City-Matrix in what he thought was reality...and they work.

Then Neo strangely falls into a coma...
Wait a minute, go back a bit.

The concept of the Matrix and Neo is that there are certain rules and he can learn how to bend them, or even break them. This ranges from dodging bullets, to flying, to jumping into a computer construct and destroying it from within.

Another rule that we see here and there is that in the City-Matrix there is a rule that you have to be in a certain geographical/digital location to enter and leave that Matrix. This creates quite a problem when the system closes off an area where the ubiquitous phones are, as seen in the original Matrix.

Now then, if we are to assume that Zion is really the Zion-Matrix, then the same rules apply. Though they don't look for a phone booth, they do have to travel near the surface to connect to the City-Matrix.

But Neo isn't like everyone else, he can bend some rules and break others. Since travel through the Matrix occurs at logical levels (as opposed to physical ones) it really doesn't matter much where you are, except that there are rules on where you can do this (which impose quasi-physical barriers). But Neo can bend and break rules...

So where is Neo? He returned to the City-Matrix. He no longer needs to be jacked in to a chair, it is just another illusion. He doesn't need to be near the surface, or calling a phone booth, he can bend those rules.

His friends, however, can't know that he is in the Matrix because they have been driven from the near-surface by the sentinels. Right now there isn't anyone in the Zion-Matrix that has the capacity to interface with the City-Matrix.

Though...I don't know why he returned, I think he did. And if I am right we are in for a very anti-climatic beginning of Matrix: Revolutions when he wakes up on his own when he is ready.

[FaxModem1]

Could be, the Wachoski brothers want us to be pondering this crap forthe next few months so we'll all pile into the theaters, and the really bad thing is, its working perfectly.

[Lagmonster]

Before I get anywhere, I subscribe the the dual matrix theory. I believe that Zion is also a matrix, that is somehow connected to the City-Matrix.

This will annoy me, due to the giant annoying question it will raise of IF THEY WANT TO KILL OFF EVERYONE IN ZION, WHY THE FUCK DON'T THE JUST UNPLUG THEM IN THE REAL WORLD??? WHY EXPEND HUNDREDS OF THEIR OWN SELF-PRESERVATION-INTERESTED 'CITIZENS' - ALA SENTIENT A.I. - IN BATTLE ON A VIRTUAL FRONT??????

I shudder that their ability to track signals of those still part of their own system would be so pathetic.

[SirNitram]

Before I get anywhere, I subscribe the the dual matrix theory. I believe that Zion is also a matrix, that is somehow connected to the City-Matrix.

This will annoy me, due to the giant annoying question it will raise of IF THEY WANT TO KILL OFF EVERYONE IN ZION, WHY THE FUCK DON'T THE JUST UNPLUG THEM IN THE REAL WORLD??? WHY EXPEND HUNDREDS OF THEIR OWN SELF-PRESERVATION-INTERESTED 'CITIZENS' - ALA SENTIENT A.I. - IN BATTLE ON A VIRTUAL FRONT??????

I shudder that their ability to track signals of those still part of their own system would be so pathetic.

Or perhaps the Machines simply need Neo to get to the Source, and don't give a damn about Sentinels. After all, attacking Zion once the One is discovered means they'll try and fufil the Prophecy... And so on.

Because, as far as I could glean from all that technobabble, Neo is slightly more than a Reset/Restart command; he is also a modified program that gathers bugs in the physics engine and carries them to the Source to be corrected. So no matter what, the Machines want him back at the Source.

[Steven Snyder]

Before I get anywhere, I subscribe the the dual matrix theory. I believe that Zion is also a matrix, that is somehow connected to the City-Matrix.

This will annoy me, due to the giant annoying question it will raise of IF THEY WANT TO KILL OFF EVERYONE IN ZION, WHY THE FUCK DON'T THE JUST UNPLUG THEM IN THE REAL WORLD??? WHY EXPEND HUNDREDS OF THEIR OWN SELF-PRESERVATION-INTERESTED 'CITIZENS' - ALA SENTIENT A.I. - IN BATTLE ON A VIRTUAL FRONT??????

I shudder that their ability to track signals of those still part of their own system would be so pathetic.

I thought about this too, I think the agents are just computer programs acting as wardens in the City Matrix. The Sentinels and all the machines are the wardens of the Zion-Matrix, no more real than the agents.

I think they do intend on 'resetting' Zion, but first they have to get all the malcontents there. Which is why the Sentinels are burrowing down, they (whoever runs the matrix) are getting everyone who will be disconnected out of the City-Matrix and plant them firmly in the Zion-Matrix where they can all be easily sorted out and unplugged.

Of course they may not 'unplug' them, that might just be another illusion. They could just wipe their memories and imprint a new personality. It is possible within the Matrix as Cipher was going to have it done. The entire 'unplugging' a person from the matrix and they conviently fall into a place where they can be recovered seems like it is just a mechanism to expell the malcontents into the Zion-Matrix where they can be monitored and controlled.

[kojikun]

Theres always the possibility that a majority of the machines dont know that the "real world" of Zion is in the Matrix.

[Shinova]

Theres always the possibility that a majority of the machines dont know that the "real world" of Zion is in the Matrix.

It could be that the machines are just like the humans. They're all just in this matrix, and in the REAL world there's a much higher power behind the scenes, watching and observing everything.




I think we can expect someone like God to appear in Revolutions.

[Sporkzen]

Maybe neo just got some feedback of some sort when he disabled the machines through his headplug... may be just something simple....

[Shinova]

Maybe neo just got some feedback of some sort when he disabled the machines through his headplug... may be just something simple....

Simple? In the Matrix? After all the Architect stuff the Wachowski brothers pulled? Nah.

[Steven Snyder]

Theres always the possibility that a majority of the machines dont know that the "real world" of Zion is in the Matrix.

Actually, I think that is exactly the case.

The more I think of it, the more I think the Matrix isn't what it is purported to be. I have a strong suspicion the thing is actually either a prison, or a zoo of some sort.

In the latter case the thing might actually be just a 'resort' for people who want to experience the past. Neo and all the others are just A.I. programs and what we are seeing is the system weeding them out so the the real guests can enjoy their stay.

[Thirdfain]

Whoa, I just had a crazy idea- in reference to the quesiton, "why make this fancy war, risking the existence of all the sentient A.I.s who fight the resistance? why not just unplug them, instead?" (this is if Zion is in fact a Matrix.)

What if the machine government is using the Matrix not only to oppress humans, but also to oppress fellow machines? We see the Machine Fall from Grace in the Animatrix- they take on the aspect of those who had formerly opressed them. Perhaps they took this a step furthur- some A.I.s are dominant, controlling the others, using the others. The war with the "Resistance" continues to assure the grip of the Machine overlords over both Humanity and their A.I. servants- a sort of 1984 style system?

[Steven Snyder]

Whoa, I just had a crazy idea- in reference to the quesiton, "why make this fancy war, risking the existence of all the sentient A.I.s who fight the resistance? why not just unplug them, instead?" (this is if Zion is in fact a Matrix.)

Because the best way to unplug them is to get ALL of the malcontents into one place, so you can identify all of them and eliminate them all at once. Remember, only when they go down the rabbit-hole are they really 'in' the Zion Matrix. So you force them deep into Zion where they can't flee anywhere else, then exterminate them.

[Thirdfain]

But why wait for a few hundred years to purge the damn place? Why not have, waiting at the bottom of the Rabbit Hole, an Agent with a gun?

[Shinova]

But why wait for a few hundred years to purge the damn place? Why not have, waiting at the bottom of the Rabbit Hole, an Agent with a gun?

Maybe the machines were thinking making Zion a quarantine at first.

So the sudden attack of the 250,000 sentinels could be they're way of implementing their "Final Solution" or sorts.

[Shinova]

Maybe the machines were thinking making Zion a quarantine at first.

So the sudden attack of the 250,000 sentinels could be they're way of implementing their "Final Solution" or sorts.

What I mean is, let's say Zion is another level of the matrix. They could use it as a method of quarantine and separate the malcontents from the main human population, but still be able to harvest them whenever the humans die or something.

[SirNitram]

Why not? It could be entertainment, either for Machines, or for some perverted group that subjugated Earth and put Humanity and AI's in a massive game. To them, it's a movie.. Always a bit different with each replaying.

There are dozens of reasons why the Dual-Matrix(Zion and 20th Century) could have been built, those rebuttals thrown about here presume, for some reason, we should start believing what we've been told about the purpose of everything. Given that the One and the Prophecy was a cruel hoax, one should start re-considering. Quickly.

[Shinova]

Let's all consider the possibility that there could be A LOT more levels of the matrix than just the city and Zion.

[SirNitram]

Let's all consider the possibility that there could be A LOT more levels of the matrix than just the city and Zion.

I'm not going to get into that unless I see such. Cartesian nightmares are nightmares for a reason. Working from what's seen, however, we have a dual-layer Matrix. Unless we want to throw good storytelling and parsimony out the door and declare some kind of wireless EMP superplug.

[Solauren]

I actually think it's something like this:

Neo is still connected to the matrix in some way, say a telemechanic (Rifts term, means telepathic with machines) method, and that's how he did it.


Either that, or going to the source, he was expected to do the 'standard route', and right now, he's still connected to control the machines, but not in the way the machines want.. In other words, he is what ZION prayed would happen, not what the machines

[SirNitram]

I actually think it's something like this:

Neo is still connected to the matrix in some way, say a telemechanic (Rifts term, means telepathic with machines) method, and that's how he did it.


Either that, or going to the source, he was expected to do the 'standard route', and right now, he's still connected to control the machines, but not in the way the machines want.. In other words, he is what ZION prayed would happen, not what the machines

Parsimony kills these theories dead.

[Hades]

But why wait for a few hundred years to purge the damn place? Why not have, waiting at the bottom of the Rabbit Hole, an Agent with a gun?

I think someone hit on this earlia
I belive the only reason that they attack Zion is in order to try to convince Neo to enter the sourse, convince him that there is no other hope.
Therefore they need to wait until the One has been discoverd to attack Zion.

[D.Turtle]

But why wait for a few hundred years to purge the damn place? Why not have, waiting at the bottom of the Rabbit Hole, an Agent with a gun?

Didn't you watch Reloaded?
Zion has been destroyed 5 times already.

[Joe]

I don't mean to revive this now dead thread, but I think I've stumbled upon what the real cause of Neo's coma is.

Exhibit A, the following dialogue from Enter the Matrix:

Niobe : Then Neo is alive?
Oracle : Yes. He touched the Source and separated his mind from his body.
Now he lies trapped in a place between your world and ours.
Niobe : Can we free him?
Oracle : Trinity can. But she will have to fight her way through hell to do
it.

Presumbably, this is after Neo has visited the Source, and after he has saved Trinity, and after he has shut down the sentinels. Now we know we haven't seen Trinity "fight through hell" yet to save Neo after he entered the source (she sacrificed herself for him BEFORE this happened), so we can presume this happens in Revolutions. This is evidenced by the dialogue from the Superbowl Trailer (accompanied by Trinity fighting some combatants, one of which can be seen in the Revolutions trailer at the end of Enter the Matrix):

Trinity: You give me Neo, or we all die, right here, right now.
(unknown individual; sounds a bit like the Merovingian or possibly Seraph): You are ready to die for this man?
Trinity: Believe it.

The fighting we see is likely the fighting alluded to by the Oracle at the end of Enter the Matrix. My theory is that Trinity is in fact fighting to save Neo from the area between the Matrix and the Real World (or the upper layer of the Matrix, if you prefer that theory) the Oracle mentioned. That is why Neo is in a coma; his mind leaves his body and goes to this place after he shut down the sentinels.

Now, I need for someone to answer a question. Is Captain Niobe's ship the one that saves the Nebuchadnezzar's crew after Neo shuts down the Sentinels? I don't believe it is, but I actually don't remember for sure, so someone please tell me, because if this is the case my theory has a pretty big hole.

[RogueIce]

Now, I need for someone to answer a question. Is Captain Niobe's ship the one that saves the Nebuchadnezzar's crew after Neo shuts down the Sentinels? I don't believe it is, but I actually don't remember for sure, so someone please tell me, because if this is the case my theory has a pretty big hole.

I'm pretty sure... Only two ships went with them, and one was destroyed. But Niobe was still around. So, unless another ship entirely came out to play (as a result of their defeat perhaps) I'd say it's Niobe's.

[Joe]

Now, I need for someone to answer a question. Is Captain Niobe's ship the one that saves the Nebuchadnezzar's crew after Neo shuts down the Sentinels? I don't believe it is, but I actually don't remember for sure, so someone please tell me, because if this is the case my theory has a pretty big hole.

I'm pretty sure... Only two ships went with them, and one was destroyed. But Niobe was still around. So, unless another ship entirely came out to play (as a result of their defeat perhaps) I'd say it's Niobe's.

The thing is, I don't remember seeing Ghost at the end, and he should be with her on the ship.