Anakin Vs. Spider-Man

THEHOOLIGANJEDI · Post by **THEHOOLIGANJEDI** » 2002-09-16 01:34pm

Setting 1: Coruscant
Setting 2: Manhattan

Who wins on either ones home turf
(BTW were talking about Movie Spiderman)

Omega-13 · Post by **Omega-13** » 2002-09-16 01:39pm

*Scene*
Anakin meets up with Spiderman on the roof top of a very tall building, its dark out, raining, and Anakin pulls out his lightsabre. Both look at each other for a moment, then in an instantly, spiderman shoots his webbing towards Anakin, who quickly dodges out of the way. Anakin jumps towards spiderman high into the air, and starts swipping at him with the sabre. Spiderman is flipping heads of heels trying to avoid the light sabre, as each attack comes closer. Feeling that he is about to get sliced, he jumps away but for some unknown reason goes crashing into the ground, where he lays there for the last remaining seconds until he runs out of oxygen

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2002-09-16 02:11pm

Anakin would hand poor spidey's heart to him while he was still alive. Only chance for spider-man is to run like hell and use some form of traps to get at Anakin. And with the Jedi ability to sense stuff like that the chances of these working are minimal.

THEHOOLIGANJEDI · Post by **THEHOOLIGANJEDI** » 2002-09-16 03:47pm

Oh come on I see it being a bit more of a challenge than that!

greenmm · Post by **greenmm** » 2002-09-16 03:48pm

Tough call to make.

IMHO, Spider-Man's spider-sense is about even with Anakin's Force perceptions in terms of giving advance warning of attacks, and Spidey's agility is about on par with a Jedi's Force-enhanced agility as well. Lightsaber probably cuts through webbing (don't know how easily, as I don't know how strong the movie webbing was supposed to be compared to the comic books), but don't expect it would be that easy to cut through; of course, a lightsaber has a limited range, mostly hand-to-hand, while the webshooters are a ranged weapon.

So, it comes down to Anakin's TK vs. Spidey's wall-crawling -- and don't knock the wall-crawling, it allows him to attack from unexpected directions.

Also... while he's definitely a little "darker" at the end, I don't see Anakin being at the "throttle my enemies" stage yet. Besides... if spider-sense works against lightsaber slashes, it'll work against Jedi TK somewhat. It depends on how easily a Jedi can "lock on" to someone with TK -- that is, do they just need to know the target it there, do they need to look at it first, and how hard is it to disrupt the concentration of the Jedi to stop the TK? Also, even with Yoda in AOTC, using TK seems to be a pretty concentration-intensive use of the Force. Even Vader in TESB, after the first object hit Luke, pretty much stopped fighting to use his TK ability. Also, how fine is the control of TK -- it can constrict a throat like an invisible hand, but can you perform microsurgery with it?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-16 10:19pm

I really don't see any serious advantages that Spiderman has. He does not appear to use his turf to his advantage, and Anakin is a better fighter, IMO.

Jack Lain · Post by **Jack Lain** » 2002-09-16 11:03pm

I don't know.

As I see it there are to questions.

A. Is Spidey sense akin to the force in prediction?
B. How sticky/constricting is web spray?

Spider Man is incredibly strong. The kinda strong that can crush every bone in your hand if he squeezes. The Marvelites are going to show me wrong, but if I remember correctly he is like a 9 in the power range in the marvel universe? I think that is hulk level 10? So if he gets into hand-to-hand with Anakin (sans light sabre), Anakin has had it. One Spidey punch and Anakin's face caves in to the back of his skull and beyond.

So we go back to the two questions above.

If Spidey can encircle Anakin in web to where he cannot move his arms to use the light sabre, then Anakin is a gonner.
If Spidey sense is akin to predictive power as the Force, then no amount of TK is going to keep him from closing the distance.

Hand-to-hand, Anakin dies and dies horribly. With Light Sabre and distance, I'd argue its still a toss up. Spidey is fast, very fast and strong, very strong. But Anakin is not slouch. Be a good fight to watch.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-16 11:06pm

"Spidey sense" (incredibly trite name, aside), does not appear to grant the kind of precognative abilities of the Force. It seems it only alerts him to danger, but it does not appear to show him what is going to happen, specifically, as the Force can do.

Jedi have fought against things worse than his web before, just look at Stokhli spray sticks. They are almost certainly more powerful than spiderman's web spray, if more limited, and they have been used by large groups of individuals who were all out to get Luke. Anakin is stronger than Luke ever was.

Jack Lain · Post by **Jack Lain** » 2002-09-16 11:28pm

I agree that Spidey Sense does not give the long-term predictive powers as the force does, but its good enough for Spidey to avoid bullets. That's pretty darn good and displaces any sabre blows or thrown objects. So we are left with a close, say 25 meter, combat situation.

I realize that no webbing of Spidey's is going to counter a light sabre blow. But if he could encircle Anakin all at once? Spider Man has it. You will counter that Anakin will see the encircling and avoid it. Thus that event could not transpire. Anakin avoids the encircling or cuts it down before it can occur, because he has seen it.

No human can contradict Spider Man's physical strength. Not even a Jedi. The question becomes one of distance and time. Since Spidey sense can predict when to jump from bullets, sabre strikes are not going to hit. But since Anakin can sense where he is going to land, perhaps he makes the fateful blow. To which I can easily claim, Spidey Sense isn't going to allow him to land there, cause its dangerous, so he lands somewhere else. So again, Spidey dances aside and Anakin lands beautiful blows on the structure. But misses Spidey.

I'm sense an impasse.

I see; Two great fighters totally dependant on some outside contributor to allow a victor. There really isn't a winner in the battle unless we manipulate events outside the original question. Spidey and Anakin are masters at what they do. They are evenly matched if we allow. The question should be, on an even flat plain, with no buildings and no surroundings and not things to throw, who would win. Not the Manhattan Coruscant surroundings.

Do you want to talk about the flat plain or accept the below?

We can agree, that we see a really good/cool fight to the death and regardless of winner, it rocks. And we each picture that battle on our own minds with our own victor.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-16 11:31pm

Spidey sense is not necessarily good enough to allow Spiderman to dodge lightsaber blows. Remember that Jedi constantly use the Force to slow down their opponents, and that a skilled Jedi can use the Force to mask his opponent's abilities to sense things in the future.

In any case, yes, if Spiderman could encircle Anakin then of course he would win. On the other hand, if you gave Anakin a similarly free-attack, then he would win with just as little effort.

I'm not convinced that Spiderman is much stronger than a Jedi using the Force, but you're quite correct, I really don't see anyway that we can possibly solve this question with the information that we have. I think we should move on to something more constructive.

Jack Lain · Post by **Jack Lain** » 2002-09-16 11:40pm

Yeah. I agree with you. It would be a cool thing though. My wife is now teasing the hell out of me. She found me digging though my old comics.

She asked me why and I said "I have to scan these images of Spidey kicking ass."
And of course she asked, "And why?"
And I said, "So I can show that Spider Man can kick Anakin Skywalkers ass."

To which I was answered with an ear shattering laugh and a few other comments.

To which I answered of course, "So?"

Ah, so many good times found on SD.NET. I love this little evil corner of the net! :) I hope you're smiling cause I still am.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-16 11:42pm

Kate thinks this site is a riot, too. She especially loved my attempts to crush DarkStar, and how angry I would get at the computer screen when he would brush off my rebuttals like dandruff.

greenmm · Post by **greenmm** » 2002-09-17 01:42pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Spidey sense is not necessarily good enough to allow Spiderman to dodge lightsaber blows. Remember that Jedi constantly use the Force to slow down their opponents, and that a skilled Jedi can use the Force to mask his opponent's abilities to sense things in the future.
[snip]
I'm not convinced that Spiderman is much stronger than a Jedi using the Force, but you're quite correct, I really don't see anyway that we can possibly solve this question with the information that we have. I think we should move on to something more constructive.

Where does it show that the Jedi always slow down their opponents? The battle droids they fight in TPM were just as fast as when their fellow droids fought the Gungans (no Force powers for them). As for masking the ability to see the future... not quite. They can mask themselves against being detected by other Force users (ie. Corran Horn in I, Jedi), and they might be able to cloud the precog abilities of other Force users. But to say that they can prevent someone from using powers that aren't based on the Force without giving prior examples from canon or official sources is not a good idea.

As for strength levels.... Spidey is supposed to have the ability to lift between 2 and 10 tons above his head. Yes, that's enough to lift a car, and even some light trucks or unhitched semi tractor-trailers. Don't know how this compares to the movie Spider-Man, but suffice it to say his physical strength should probably be a match for Jedi strength.

THEHOOLIGANJEDI · Post by **THEHOOLIGANJEDI** » 2002-09-17 05:02pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Spidey sense is not necessarily good enough to allow Spiderman to dodge lightsaber blows. Remember that Jedi constantly use the Force to slow down their opponents, and that a skilled Jedi can use the Force to mask his opponent's abilities to sense things in the future.

In any case, yes, if Spiderman could encircle Anakin then of course he would win. On the other hand, if you gave Anakin a similarly free-attack, then he would win with just as little effort.

I'm not convinced that Spiderman is much stronger than a Jedi using the Force, but you're quite correct, I really don't see anyway that we can possibly solve this question with the information that we have. I think we should move on to something more constructive.

And also Spiderman hasn't always been able to avoid everything his Spider sense alerts himself to. Where as Force Precog more often than not can.
If anybody brings up the Arena battle in AOTC, I'll just say that the Jedis ability to use the Force had diminshed at that point.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-09-17 05:29pm

THEHOOLIGANJEDI wrote:And also Spiderman hasn't always been able to avoid everything his Spider sense alerts himself to.

Such as the chair shots during the wrestling match in the movie

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-17 05:31pm

1. You are correct, they were not using the Force to slow down the Battle droids, although that was probably because they did not need to.
2. Force Persuasion works on non-Jedi. It should demonstrate that Force-users can cloud the senses that do not rely on the Force. It can also be used to make victims hear things that they do not actually here, and see things that they do not actually see.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-09-17 06:45pm

Jack Lain wrote:I don't know.

As I see it there are to questions.

A. Is Spidey sense akin to the force in prediction?
B. How sticky/constricting is web spray?

Spider Man is incredibly strong. The kinda strong that can crush every bone in your hand if he squeezes. The Marvelites are going to show me wrong, but if I remember correctly he is like a 9 in the power range in the marvel universe? I think that is hulk level 10? So if he gets into hand-to-hand with Anakin (sans light sabre), Anakin has had it. One Spidey punch and Anakin's face caves in to the back of his skull and beyond.

So we go back to the two questions above.

If Spidey can encircle Anakin in web to where he cannot move his arms to use the light sabre, then Anakin is a gonner.
If Spidey sense is akin to predictive power as the Force, then no amount of TK is going to keep him from closing the distance.

Hand-to-hand, Anakin dies and dies horribly. With Light Sabre and distance, I'd argue its still a toss up. Spidey is fast, very fast and strong, very strong. But Anakin is not slouch. Be a good fight to watch.

In every version of the Handbook of the Marvel Universe Spiderman has been listed as being able to lift around 10 tons over his head. The main example they always give is of him lifting a NY City Bus.

Basically if he is not holding back and connects with Anaking in even a glancing blow it is going to be bad for Anakin. Any kind of decent hit and it's all over.

Personally I think that in combat Spiderman is faster than most Jedi overall but the Jedi might be quicker in initial reacting, at least most of the time.

If the Jedi didn't have a lightsabre would they have been able to survive
what the Green Goblin through at Spiderman? Perhaps, but I'd bet they'd have to deflect or catch some of it with the Force.

Comic Book Spiderman could take Anakin most of the time. Movie version , I'd tend to go with Anakin just because he is so much more experienced with his own abilities. Plus he gets better when he gets pissed.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-17 06:46pm

Did you see how fast Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon moved when they were running from the Droidekas? No one who watched that scene in TPM would think Spidey is faster, though he is probably stronger.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-09-17 06:49pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Did you see how fast Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon moved when they were running from the Droidekas? No one who watched that scene in TPM would think Spidey is faster, though he is probably stronger.

I remember. They were deffinately faster than Spiderman there. I just don't feel that we've seen that speed translated into fighting, except for Yoda. The rest of the time Jedi appear as quick as normal humans but with better reflexes.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-17 06:51pm

Force speed has been used in combat in the EU, but not in the movies.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-09-17 07:01pm

I'm mainly trying to stick with the movies mainly because we really haven't seen much of Anakin outside of the movies and there is way too much Spiderman stuff to be dragging in. Plus I haven't read much EU stuff.

The more I think about it the more I think that Anakin would probably take Spiderman (movie version) most of the time. I doubt that either of them could ever win every time against the other.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-17 07:15pm

Tsyroc wrote:I'm mainly trying to stick with the movies mainly because we really haven't seen much of Anakin outside of the movies and there is way too much Spiderman stuff to be dragging in. Plus I haven't read much EU stuff.

The more I think about it the more I think that Anakin would probably take Spiderman (movie version) most of the time. I doubt that either of them could ever win every time against the other.

No one can win one hundred percent of the time during combat against another person. We can only estimate the odds.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-09-17 07:26pm

So what do you think? 60/40? or something a little closer? Further apart?

I think it is a tough call. Perhaps we'll have better info when the sequels come out.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-17 07:29pm

I think it's maybe 60/40 at best for Anakin during his AotC years. Spiderman is amazingly powerful, also. Later on, when Anakin is older and more powerful, the odds would continue to slide in his favor, but Spiderman is not a push over for anybody.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-17 07:47pm

Hmm depends....

If it was Later on Anakin... IE Vadar
Force pull off the web shooters then Force choke

If it was Anakin I'd open it up with a nice force push to tilt the odds but thats not as effective as Force Push

Anakins gonna have a hard time once Spidy gets moving but untill then the advantage is his

Ie, Good example is Mara using the Force to hold enemys in place so she can scewer them with the Lighsaber

Unconvental but it works