Shouting match with my dad, resulting in a sore throat

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-06-20 02:37pm

So, we get into a debate about the bible and creationism. First he starts off with the liberal xtian position of believing in only the "good things" from the bible. I say fine, but I point out the overwhelming amount of evils in the bible.

So this goes back and forth, and we end up yelling at each other in the car. I make a comment about a mistranslation of 'stauros' in the bible, then the piece of trash says that I'm not a biblical scholar so I have no basis for argument

Obvious personal attack with no focus on the argument. He starts to go on a tangent about other mistranslations, saying that they MUST mean I'm taking things out of context

, and when I call him out on it, he goes fucking apeshit and says I'M personally attacking him. Yes, he claims that saying he went on a tangent is a PERSONAL ATTACK because I'm "implying I'm too stupid to argue"

We go back and forth over this for over an HOUR and he refuses to acknowledge that he was the one who committed the personal attack, not me.

Later on, he claims that creationism hasn't been disproven; he's playing games like "how is saying the universe just popped into existence more logical than creationism?". Nothing good came from it and I'm ready to club him with a Cruel ThunderMaul of Quickness (300% ED 40% IAS) until he's a quivering pile of flesh (I kid)

Sucks to be an atheist when you have to put up with this crap T.T

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-06-20 03:26pm

Sucks. My dad was adopted and raised by fundie assholes who didn't let him hang out with his friends (because it was evil), did not accept the charges for a collect call he placed to them AFTER RETURNING FROM VIETNAM, and would not accept his second, "sinful" marriage, the one that produced me. So he's even more apathetic about religion than I am.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-06-20 03:47pm

What makes him think you absolutly have to be a biblical Scholar to give your opinion on the bible?

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-06-20 04:38pm

I think the big reason for such defensiveness on the part of 'liberal' or 'friendly' beievers is that they are trying to take their beliefs in a positive light and see it as a force for good-- rather than as an excuse to bash others. Hence, when someone criticizes them for their belief, they naturally see it as an attack on a good thing that they adhere to.

Using religion to justify killing Jews or others makes it a ripe target to attack, but a lot of modern religious philosophy tries to square belief with ideas of liberal tolerance and understanding. Hence their dismay when attacked. From their pov you are attacking a good and poitive thing-- so what does that automatically imply about you? Hence the reaction.

It comes off as hatred-- no matter how good or decent a religious person tries to be, which in this modern age means acceptance, tolerance, charity etc, they are still attacked and hounded (remember, this is from the pov of the modern liberal believer). The result is, you (generalized you, not you personally) just 'hate religion' no matter even if it was a great source for good.

It is known and accepted that religion has been a source for evil, but these people are trying to make it a force or good. Whle fundies believe everything is "God spoken" in the Bible, these new believers see the good parts as properly reflective of a God of love and the evil parts may well be writ by men to justify evil acts. Many times, oddly enough, a challenger will actually take the Fundie perspective by insisting that everythng is "God spoken" or that, ironically, only the evil parts are "true" and the good parts are writ by men.

In other words, it does seem to come off as pure cynicism, that nothing the believer does is right, acceptable or justified no matter how hard he or she tries to follow a good path. This naturally drums up feelings of hurt or unfair persecution-- and tha the challengers harbor intolerable hatred towards their beliefs, which again makes them feel morally superior, since they are being 'tolerant' and the people who normally preach tolerance the loudest are attacking their creed.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-06-20 04:44pm

Typical.

Acacia · Post by **Acacia** » 2003-06-20 04:59pm

A warm mug of water with lemon juice and honey will soothe your throat.

Refraining from arguing about a fairy tale with the deluded is the best preventative I can offer.

I find the best approach to life is to not upset myself over what other people believe. Live and let live.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-06-20 05:09pm

I had one of those with my dad last Christmas. It closed with him asking how science was superior to God. I pointed to my insulin and pointed out that if left to "acts of God", I would be dead by now and its thanks to science that I'm still alive. He then goes off on a tangent about me rejecting his ideas of literal biblical interpretation simply because "I'm angry at God" because I'm a diabetic.

Ravencrow · Post by **Ravencrow** » 2003-06-20 07:13pm

IMHO: When someone takes the bible whole and regards believing it as part of the 'contract' of accepting God, any attack on the bible is regarded as a personal attack on them. This is why they get so fanatically unreasonable at times.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-06-20 11:01pm

This is exactly why I don`t mention my not being a Christian anymore to my mother. My dad, he doesn`t care. I know, because he doesn`t go to church, and has seen me on SLAM a few times.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-06-20 11:16pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:This is exactly why I don`t mention my not being a Christian anymore to my mother. My dad, he doesn`t care. I know, because he doesn`t go to church, and has seen me on SLAM a few times.

quite so. Im stll, officinally, a christian maltheist in my house. just so I can avoid conversion attempts.