Mormonism

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2003-06-20 05:54pm

I have some family memebers who are Mormon.
I have looked at the book of Mormon and it is about as bad as the bible in most areas as far as being readable. In many cases, I have been able to correlate various Christian beliefs from where the get them in the bible although Wong's list is pretty helpful at making conections.

I know a bit aboput Mormonism but wondering if their beliefs from the Book of Mormon ior are they created by later religious leaders.

CrimsonRaine · Post by **CrimsonRaine** » 2003-06-20 07:49pm

I might be talking out of my ass with this one.

Mormonism is a special branch of Christianity that read and consider the Bible. But if I'm not horribly incorrect, their book has been changed and warped by their own religious leaders. I don't think it follows the Bible very closely at all.

So, really, they follow the Book of Mormon, that had been written by their own leaders. =)

CR

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-06-20 08:05pm

If you want some really interesting stuff, go research the life story of the guy who founded the Mormon church. You won't believe what you see, especially in light of their holier-than-thou attitude today.

thecreech · Post by **thecreech** » 2003-06-20 08:10pm

I have read the book of mormon. It was very strange

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2003-06-20 08:14pm

My brother converted to Mormonism, actually, and there's some odd bits about it.

For one thing, when most Christian scholars want to find the most accurate translation of the Bible, they go to the oldest texts. Mormons go to the NEWEST ones, because apparently God is constantly telling their Prophet to make revisions.

Since it was written, "god" has made over a thousand "corrections" to the book of Mormon and even more to the Bible.

Makes you wonder...

Hobot · Post by **Hobot** » 2003-06-20 08:22pm

http://religioustolerance.org/lds.htm

Post by **AdmiralKanos** » 2003-06-20 09:09pm

A pair of Mormons came to my house last year and tried to convert my wife. She politely allowed them to show her their propaganda. When they showed her the picture of the Quorum of the Twelve (yes, it sounds like something from Battlestar Galactica but it's really how they operate), she stopped them in midsentence and asked one question: "why are they all old white men?"

They had no answer. She told them to get back to her when they could produce an answer. They never came back.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2003-06-20 10:01pm

Until twenty years ago, only white people were open to be saved, and Native Americans (First Peoples) were dark-skinned because they had apparently turned against God in the days of Nephi.

If I believed in using rolleyes, it would be right about here.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-06-20 10:56pm

My reasoning is this: if I was going to be practicing religion, I don`t want to follow a religion handed down by a being called MORONI.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2003-06-20 11:20pm

My Personal problems with the Mormon church are these:
My Niece is/was a very intelligent person. She was always on the honor roll in school and had high dreams for herself. She went to Brigham Young University. There, they teach females that their roll is to get married and have as many babies as possible. A Mormon I used to talk to called it "Breed Them Young University" and her really was not joking. My niece fell into that trap. As well, my brother wanted to attend the wedding and was not allowed to due to it being held in secret chambers of the Mormon church (the giant one in Salt Lake City) which non Mormons are not allowed in.

I have watched programs that seem to indacte that the leaders of the Mormon church wish to hide certain aspects of the early Mormon church, leading me to wonder what they really know.

UltraViolence83 · Post by **UltraViolence83** » 2003-06-20 11:44pm

Secret chambers, eh? Sounds like my kinda cult!

In all honesty, the only way I'd see myself becoming a Christian is by becoming a Freemason. Just because I think that the idea of a "secret" club with official rings is so fucking awesome.

And let's not get into how they drive Chick insane.

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-06-21 07:37am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:My reasoning is this: if I was going to be practicing religion, I don`t want to follow a religion handed down by a being called MORONI.

I love Moron jokes

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-06-21 08:01am

I wouldn`t be suprised if other people have used that line, but I came up with it myself one day.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-06-21 08:51am

Joseph Smith was a flim flam man. On July 3, 1835, a Mr. Michael H. Chandler arrived in Kirtland, Ohio, where Joseph Smith was then in residence, with an exhibit of Egyptian mummies. He also had a pair of papyrus scrolls. Somebody told him Smith could translate the scolls, and he duly brought them to Smith.

The following is an excerpt from Smith's own journal:

...with W.W. Phelps and Oliver Cowdery as scribes, I commenced the translation of some of the characters or hieroglyphics, and much to our joy found that one of the rolls contained the writings of Abraham, another the writings of Joseph of Egypt, etc., - a more full account which will appear in its place, as I proceed to examine or unfold them. Truly we can say, the Lord is beginning to reveal the abundance of peace and truth. (History of the Church, Vol. 2, pg. 236)

However, thanks to M. Champolion's work deciphering the Rosetta Stone, scholars can now read Egyptian heiroglyphs. And some years ago, during the 1960s I believe, the Mormon Church, which still has the scrolls - Smith having purchased them from Chandler - made the error of allowing real Egyptologists to have a look at them. Possibly the church elders, being real believers, had faith that Smith's translation was true and accurate, and fully expected the Egyptologists to confirm "The Book of Abraham" that Smith derived from them.

Turns out that the papyrus Joseph Smith claimed was the Book of Abraham was in reality the Book of Breathings, an Egyptian funerary text made for a man by the name of Hor (Horus). It had absolutely nothing whatever to do with Abraham, Joseph, or Hebrews of any description, and in fact dates from a different period altogether. Curiously, the Mormon Church has never been keen to broadcast this little fact. Imagine that!

To someone not indocrinated with Mormon dogma, the conclusion is inescapable. Smith made it all up. He could no more translate Egyptian heiroglyphics than he could fly to the moon. One must also suspect that he came up with the Book of Mormon in the same fraudulent manner.

Ravencrow · Post by **Ravencrow** » 2003-06-21 08:56am

I was approached by a cheerful mormon missionary a year or two ago at a busstop. And she showed me her mormon bible which had interesting pictures in it as she related to me the story of their order. Something about a particular tribe of God's people arriving on America's shores around near the Birth of Christ. I remember one particular picture that stood out where there was a mayan pyramid in the background and then there were two groups of people below, one group that disobeyed God and the other who was of the faithful. She told me that the unfaithful were killed but the faithful were saved and such.

Because I didn't want to waste an opportunity of talking to someone who was unusual, I acted like a complete ignorant non-believer, I asked her why and how they were different from the main churches. She said that they had the updated version of the bible. That God had talked to some modern day prophets who compiled these into writings which make up the mormon bible, applicable Word for "today's world". "Because things have changed since 2000 years ago."

One impression I have of them is that their faith is ruled by fear.
The missionary after letting me flip through her bible, said to me, "I know I must follow God and be faithful. Do you know what happens when people don't obey God?"
"What?"
She made a motion of slitting the throat. "keerrrk." and she nodded smiling.
"I see."
She then went on to talk about getting peace and joy and such.

I wanted to have that mormon bible, but she wouldn't give me it. (It was interesting and I was curious. Anyway I found a version on the internet, but alas, no interesting telling pics.) They wouldn't give you their bible unless you leave an address for contact, and I won't do that. So calmly, I told her I wasn't comfortable leaving my addy with a stranger. (She agreed that that was wise) but I would drop by their "house", but of course I didn't. She went away thinking she might have gotten a convert. (hehe)

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-06-21 09:01am

Oh, don`t encourage them!

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-06-21 11:19am

AdmiralKanos wrote:A pair of Mormons came to my house last year and tried to convert my wife. She politely allowed them to show her their propaganda. When they showed her the picture of the Quorum of the Twelve (yes, it sounds like something from Battlestar Galactica but it's really how they operate), she stopped them in midsentence and asked one question: "why are they all old white men?"

They had no answer. She told them to get back to her when they could produce an answer. They never came back.

Was she talking about Mormons, or the history of chief executives in teh United States?

DarthBlight · Post by **DarthBlight** » 2003-06-21 11:39am

UltraViolence83 wrote:Secret chambers, eh? Sounds like my kinda cult!

In all honesty, the only way I'd see myself becoming a Christian is by becoming a Freemason. Just because I think that the idea of a "secret" club with official rings is so fucking awesome.

And let's not get into how they drive Chick insane.

You don't have to be a Christian to be a Freemason, you can be of pretty much any religion, so long as there is (1) a Supreme Architect of the Universe and (2) an afterlife.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2003-06-21 01:11pm

Hate to break it to you, Perinquus, but the Mormon church recently decided the "Book of Abraham" wasn't really part of the gospel, and has been dropped from their cannon.

Guess they didn't want to look like fools.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2003-06-21 03:01pm

My encounter with the Mormons described here

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-06-21 04:37pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Hate to break it to you, Perinquus, but the Mormon church recently decided the "Book of Abraham" wasn't really part of the gospel, and has been dropped from their cannon.

Guess they didn't want to look like fools.

Which changes what, really? My point was that Joseph Smith was a flim flam man. How does this refute that assertion? Whether they accept it as canon or not, the fact remains, it was still a fraud perpetrated by Joseph Smith, their founder. Since he also claimed to have translated the Urim and the Thummim (the pair of golden plates from which the Book of Mormon supposedly comes), why should we believe his "tranlations" of these now curiously no longer extant plates are any more real than his spurious translation of "The Book of Abraham".

It changes nothing. Joseph Smith was still a fraud who falsely claimed the ability to translate ancient Middle Eastern languages, and who used these supposed translations to bamboozle his congregation into following him. One would think the rock solid evidence of his undeniable fraud concerning "The Book of Abraham", would cause people to call the whole religion into question, but it is amazing how people have the capacity to continue believing in that which cannot possibly be true.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-06-21 06:10pm

The Mormons are trying to dis-associate themselves more and more from the wackier chapters of their founding.
There was a very interesting book in the early or mid-eighties called "The Mormon Murders", it was about this document forger who preyed on Mormon hunger for documentary evidence for their origins. He built himself a reputation as a miracle worker in finding rare artifacts, produced by "aging" paper in his oven at home.
The whole episode was a MAJOR embarrassment for the church.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2003-06-21 08:17pm

Perinquus wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:Hate to break it to you, Perinquus, but the Mormon church recently decided the "Book of Abraham" wasn't really part of the gospel, and has been dropped from their cannon.

Guess they didn't want to look like fools.
Which changes what, really? My point was that Joseph Smith was a flim flam man. How does this refute that assertion? Whether they accept it as canon or not, the fact remains, it was still a fraud perpetrated by Joseph Smith, their founder. Since he also claimed to have translated the Urim and the Thummim (the pair of golden plates from which the Book of Mormon supposedly comes), why should we believe his "tranlations" of these now curiously no longer extant plates are any more real than his spurious translation of "The Book of Abraham".

It changes nothing. Joseph Smith was still a fraud who falsely claimed the ability to translate ancient Middle Eastern languages, and who used these supposed translations to bamboozle his congregation into following him. One would think the rock solid evidence of his undeniable fraud concerning "The Book of Abraham", would cause people to call the whole religion into question, but it is amazing how people have the capacity to continue believing in that which cannot possibly be true.

Of course it doesn't change anything. It just shows the mormons got caught reading the wrong book and had to change their minds about it before everyone else caught on.

I'm agreeing with you, in case you didn't notice.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-06-22 01:01am

Uooph, just glance at my location and decide for yourself how many Mormon stories I have.

I hate these guys.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-06-22 02:16am

Kitsune wrote:I have some family memebers who are Mormon.
I have looked at the book of Mormon and it is about as bad as the bible in most areas as far as being readable. In many cases, I have been able to correlate various Christian beliefs from where the get them in the bible although Wong's list is pretty helpful at making conections.

I know a bit aboput Mormonism but wondering if their beliefs from the Book of Mormon ior are they created by later religious leaders.

I've read that book. Apparently, good ole Joe didn't know what the fuck Urim and Thummim were. They weren't magical stones. They were a way to cast lots.

Anyways, I've read up on these people, and Joe ADMITTED that he was leading them on. Jeez, they don't listen to anything, do they?

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