Star Trek federation clearly wins

[Captain Cyran]

<snip>
By the way, you can see the current disparity by seeing the contents of the threads. It is no longer Fed vs Empire or even Imp Sector Group vs Fed. It is ISD vs Fed, or even Corvette vs Fed and TIE Fighter Wing vs Fed. Oh, how Trek has fallen!

Well, I'm not certain about a TIE fighter wing being able to take on the feds...

But the rest is right.

[YT300000]

The Rebels won by a long series of good luck, the Force, stupidity on the part of the enemy, and sheer probability. Their chances were less than 1 in 5 million.

You should know that by now, JodoForce.

No, calculated to the nearest integer the chances were 1 in 4 million 9 hundred 34 thousand 5 hundred and 69 [/Data]

Seriously, I guess you're right, but since the defeat of the Empire by the Rebels is part of the canon, it can arguably be brought into the discussion on the same basis as canon events for the assessment of firepower. Hence the strategy of holing up, waiting for it to blow over and then coming out to declare victory is possible for the feds against the canon Empire. Not the way you usually debate though

Although the Empire Remnant may decide to keep the Feds' universe for various reasons...

So, basically the Rebels poke the Empire and it topples itself. Then the Federation comes out of hiding. Some Imperial warlord notices them, and dispatches a single fleet which wipes them out.

Sounds about right.

[JodoForce]

Yup

[Knife]

There was just so many ways that he could have done this thread better. Hey Sar2, think on this for a day or two and come back with an actual argument besides 'I think that the Empire wouldn't win, because I think so, so it is'.

The hostility on this site has been and probably will always be, towards those who spew out an unsupported opinon with little or no facts. If you have some thing to say, say it and support it. Bull shit has always, since the boards inception, been frowned upon.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

Well, I'm not certain about a TIE fighter wing being able to take on the feds...

But the rest is right.

Oh yeah, the average TIE fighter wing can't reach its attack designations because they have no hyperdrive! Damn!

Maybe a TIE Defender wing then!

[TurboPhaser]

This is my first post, my first day visiting this site and reading it. I have not read many posts either. I agree that the Empire from Star Wars has more fire power but it just could not beat the Star Trek Federation. The Empire has too many inept soldiers.

The other thing that has to be realized is that the Empire is the 'villain' so they are designed with flaws so they can be defeated. The Federation is the 'hero' so they would have to be the winners. What if the rebels from Star Wars battled the villains from Star Trek?

Now if the Federation were fighting the rebels (Luke, Han and etc...) then
it is harder to say who would win. The Federation has the advantage in fire power and numbers. (Especially if you include the Federation's allies)
The rebels have an advantage in that they have the Force.

When any two armies battle each has strength (number of soldiers, firepower, territory, etc...) , intelligence ( the skills of the leaders and soliders), and luck. The Empire has a lot of strength , but not a lot of intelligence or luck. This is why the ewoks defeated them! Now if you assign equal strength, intelligence and luck to the Empire and the Federation then they will never beat each other. If you use the abilities from the movie(s) and tv show(s) then there is no way the Empire could beat the Federation, especially the TNG. (They might not even be able to defeat Kirk's Federation) The Empire lacks the intelligence (and since they are the villain, they lack the luck) to defeat the Federation which has more than enough intelligence and luck.

There is more than enough examples in each movie to show this. Just watch the movies and you will see!

*cracks knuckles* Oooh, this should be fun.

You think that the only battles would happen on planets? Ship to ship battles would happen.

And when they do, the Feds are simply outgunned. It does not matter how smart the crews are on either side, as long as they can operate their weapons, the Federation is on the losing side. They can operate their weapons, so the Feds lose.

It is fact that the Empire has superior firepower to the Federation. Its about 30,000 TW for Fed phasers and 200 GT for Imperial Turbolasers.

Federation shields can withstand TW energy (based on canon visuals and dialouge), while that is impressive in 21st century terms, it means that the Feds simply have NO chance defeating the Empire.

1 shot and the Starfleet ship is destroyed. Thats it. No chance.

I admire the fact that you are willing to argue, but the Feds are really outgunned.

[JodoForce]

*Says hello to TurboPhaser as he makes his fresh appearance while the rest of us are walking out of the stadium*

[Solauren]

Okay, everyone CALM DOWN. THank you

Sar2:

From a Literary point of view, you are correct, the good guy wins. So, from a literary stand point (i.e someone writing a novel or making a movie), Star Trek/The Federation should win.

However, this dicussion is not about a literary point of view.

Why not?

Simple.

From a Literary point of view, there is no point in a debate beyond 10 - 20 minutes with your friends while walking down the street or waiting for the bus. You already know who the winner is going to be. 'The Good Guys'.

So, literary, Star Trek wins. We all admit that. That's a fact of literary/literature. In the end, the good guys win. Heck, even the 'Conquest' story on the main site has, in the end, the Good Guys kinda winning. The Federation survives.

HOWEVER

This website is not about it from a literary point of view. Take the laws of writing for the masses, and piss on them, burn them, toss them into a wood chipper, and then flush them down into the depts of the sewer of a major city like New York, or just down a Black Hole.

This is about it from a 'real life' point of view. If it was REAL. No brain bugs without facts, and everything nicely disected. None of this 'good must win' crap.

Like a Real life War.

YOu see, in a real life War, good and evil are largely subjective and cultural. For example, let's take World War 2. I'm using general terms here as examples.

To the German's, Hitler was a saviour, and because he wanted to take over Europe, that was a good thing.
To the Rest of the World, that was a bad thing.
To the Japanese, bombing Pearl Harbor was duty and therefore good. to the American's (and everyone not a Japanese ally) it was bad.

Other Examples from Real life
Rome's Campaigns to expand the Empire. Good to the Romans, bad to the none Roman's.
The American Civil War. Good to the South, Bad to the North
The American Revolution: Good to most of the Americans, Bad to the British and some Americans.
Napeleon's Campaigns: Good to the french, bad to the other guys.

The Christian Church's Witch Hunts (Religious War). Good from the Church's point of view. Bad from the point of view of the people that were tortured, hunted and burned at the stake.


Now then, with that in mind. Let's look at something else you mentioned.

The various powerful beings in Star Trek.

With the exception of the 'Prophets', name me one ON SCREEN instance where Q has saved the Federation from a massively powerful enemy. Yes, he's saved the Enterprise from the Borg, once, but that was because he was tormenting them. Having the crew assimilated makes tormenting them difficult. He was also trying to make a point

I also don't recall the say, Organians interferring in the Dominion-Federation Alliance War. Or anyone else interferring for that matter.

Most of the uber-beings, with the exception of the Organians and the Prophets, don't care, because they will not be affected by a war.

Which brings us to the two that did interfer:
Organians: Because they were on the Organian's planet. That probably upset them. Also, that was a episode commentary on the Cold War. Ignoring the commentary, they did it because they didn't want a war breaking out over THEM. I don't remember the Organians stopping any other wars or battles, and there were a few.

The Prophets: They simply stopped Dominion Ships from coming through the wormhole. In otherwords, they revoked there right of passage though it, and enforced it within the Wormhole. They didn't wipe out the Dominion
ships already in the Alpha Quadrant you'll noticed. And they only did it because Sisko asked them too, and they realised if they didn't, he was gonna get himself killed, and the Prophet's still needed him to seal the Fire Caves.

In both cases, there was an unusual factor. Otherwise, I don't recall seeing the Prophets blasting Jem'ha'dar fighters.

Now then, let's examine two more, Voyager only lifeforms.

The Occompa. Only KES demonstarted that level of power to toss a ship across space. Later on, she kinda lacked it too. The rest of the Occompa were short lived Betazoids basically. The Empire would probably ignore the Occompa world. They'd have to terraform it to make it more useful then just a supply station.

The Voth
Let's see, they basically told Voyager to call fuck themselves. They are isolationist. Granted, they have Transwarp drive and rather big ships, but there laws prevent them from doing anything against Docturine. Remember, they admitted in the Voth episode that Transwarp wasn't tried for a long, long, long time because of Docturine. They maybe not have technology beyond say, 26th century UFP. Then again, they could have Star Wars level firepower and ships. (There is on screen evidence to support Star Wars sized ships. Firepower is just a assumption based on there society being 20 million years old. They SHOULD have that level of firepower.)

However, the Voth are on the other side of the Galaxy, and don't like humans now. Heck, if you where them, that world represents a direct threat to all your religious beliefs. Wouldn't you applaud when the Empire pounded it into scrap? Hell, if i was the Voth leadership, I'd send the Empire and congradulatory Fruit Basket and a proposal for a non-aggression treaty in thanks.

Anyway, in the end: This board is about a realistic war, with the romantic and 'good guys' must win crap tossed out the window. IN the end, in real life, do you know who the good guy is?

The guy that wins the war. 20 years later, most of the people will be like 'meh, so i'm Imperial now. That's fine, pass the steak, dear."

Toss out the brain-bugs, and stuff like 'inept' soldiers (a problem on both sides. They are called Red Shirts in Star Trek TOS).

What it gets down to is this
in real life
25,000 Star Destroyers vs 20,000 Galaxy Class Warships.
Proper analysist based on on-screen evidence and offical sanctioned tech books by the proper people books (i.e the liscening departments)

Who wins?

I'll tell you. And I was upset when I realised it would go this way
The Star Destroyers.
And they might lose no more then 100 ships in the process.

[/b][/code]

[Captain Cyran]

Well, I'm not certain about a TIE fighter wing being able to take on the feds...

But the rest is right.

Oh yeah, the average TIE fighter wing can't reach its attack designations because they have no hyperdrive! Damn!

Maybe a TIE Defender wing then!

See, it's always the little things you forget.

[Darth Servo]

Man. All the "interesting stuff" happens on the weekend around here. Its times like these I wish I had less of a life.

The Empire has too many inept soldiers.

Every single example of "inept" Imperial soldiers has a rational explanation.

1. The Stormtroopers on board the Death Star in ANH were clearly under orders to let Leia and company escape so they could be tracked back to their base.
2. The Stormtroopers in cloud city were told to heard and harass the rebels but to let them get to the Falcon so they could rescue Luke
3. The Stormtroopers on Endor were under direct orders from Darth Vader to take prisoners alive.

The other thing that has to be realized is that the Empire is the 'villain' so they are designed with flaws so they can be defeated. The Federation is the 'hero' so they would have to be the winners. What if the rebels from Star Wars battled the villains from Star Trek?

Now if the Federation were fighting the rebels (Luke, Han and etc...) then it is harder to say who would win.

Do not assume that just because the rebels had inferior numbers to the Empire that they must have ALSO had inferior technology. A rebel Mon Calamari cruiser has similar firepower to and ISD and therefore more firepower than the Feds could ever dream about.

The Federation has the advantage in fire power and numbers. (Especially if you include the Federation's allies)

Prove it.

The rebels have an advantage in that they have the Force.

Among others.

When any two armies battle each has strength (number of soldiers, firepower, territory, etc...) , intelligence ( the skills of the leaders and soliders), and luck. The Empire has a lot of strength , but not a lot of intelligence or luck. This is why the ewoks defeated them!

Wrong.

1. See above.
2. The Ewoks knew the terrain much better than the Imperials.
3. The Ewoks were much MORE numerous than the Imperials.
4. The Stormtroopers were WINNING the battle until one of their OWN scout walkers was hijacked and turned against them.

Now if you assign equal strength, intelligence and luck to the Empire and the Federation then they will never beat each other.

of course not because you are FORCING them to have the same capabilities. You aren't comparing their ACTUAL ABILITIES, you are HANDICAPPING the Empire.

If you use the abilities from the movie(s) and tv show(s) then there is no way the Empire could beat the Federation, especially the TNG. (They might not even be able to defeat Kirk's Federation)

Back up this claim, especially in light of the fact that the Federation has NEVER demonstrated the ability to destroy a planet.[quoteThe Empire lacks the intelligence[/quote]No, thats what you lack.

(and since they are the villain, they lack the luck) to defeat the Federation which has more than enough intelligence and luck.

Many articles have already be written on the utter incompetance of the Federation.

More evidence

[Darth Servo]

I am amazed at how fast my post was replied to!

We are on constant alert for trolls such as yourself.

I have been reading more and more from this site and it appears to be an anti-StarTrek site!

Irrelevant ad-hominem attack.

Now I see it really does not matter what my opinion is.

Your opinion doesn't matter because your opinionis wrong.

You cannot compare the French fighting the Nazis with the Federation fighting the Empire. In the real world you cannot just label one group as a villain and one group as a hero.
First of all, both Star Trek and Star Wars are not real so it does matter who is the 'villain' and who is the 'hero'. George Lucas and Gene Roddenberry would both agree that the Empire is the villain. You do not write fictional stories and have the villains win.

But comparing the two universes to real life is the only way we can arrive at an objective analysis. As for your "good guys always win" argument, go here

Is the main reason for this site is to bash Star Trek?

No, the purpose of this site is to show WHY various protrek arguments like yours are WRONG.

The Empire has more fire power than the Federation only because Lucas wrote that way.

Irrelevant. That does NOT change the fact that the Empire does in fact have the firepower it has.

If the Federation were all powerful (like you believe the Empire to be), then there would be no conflict in the series and the show would become boring.

You mean it isn't already?

I like both Star Wars and Star Trek and I don't know why anyone needs to compare the two.

Because its fun.

They are two different types of stories.

Which has absolutely zero bearing on the CAPABILITIES each side has.

(It would make more sense for the 'heros' of the stories to battle each other) This argument is like saying 'who would win in a battle between Batman and Captain America?'. There is no way to really to truly decide who would win.

Wrong again. We can look in the comics and see which is stronger, which is more agile, which has better superhero gadgets. If one is ten times stronger AND faster AND can withstand ten times as much punishment, etc. than the other its pretty obvious which one is going to win.

For the imaginary battle of the Empire and the Federation, you would have to ask Lucas and dig up Roddenberry and let them decide who wins.

Do you honestly think that a Galactic empire that can blow up planets at a whim will have ANY trouble dealing with an organization that has to use most of a ships torpedos to destroy ~5 kilometer asteriods (TNG's pegasus)

You are just taking bits and pieces from the movies and tv shows and deciding for yourself who wins.

I suspect you would prefer to make things up out of thin air?

What about the information in the Star Trek universe and Star Wars universe that you don't see? For example, who are Captain Kirk's parents? They exist, but they are not on the show. How do you know that his parents are not Q? You can argue anything!

Yep, suspicion confirmed. Kirk has NEVER demonstrated having any of Q's powers therefore his parents were most certainly NOT Q.

They are not even in the same 'universe'! In the Star Wars universe, there is a magic called the 'Force', Jedis and Death Stars, and in the Star Trek universe, they have telepathy, time travel, teleportation, god-like beings called Q and more. Also, the laws of physics are different in each universe! So how do you explain this?

By assuming that both sides technology and abilities remains consistant with what is shown in the episodes and assuming the laws of physics are the same as they are in real life unless the canon leaves us absolutely no choice.

How can they truly have an honest battle? They can't!

They can't only in YOUR prefered methodology of doing things.

If you want them to fight, you have to first put them in a 'neutral universe'

Already done. See above two quotes ago.

then you would have to make some changes to both sides in order for them to exist together (also Star Trek in further in the future than Star Wars, which is supposed to be a 'long time ago in a galaxy far...blah blah')

Wormhole or one of Trek MANY "temporal anomoly of the week" (tm).

then you would have to explain the reason they are fighting.

Why?

The only thing I can agree on is that from the evidence of the movies, it appears that the Empire has more fire power than the Federation. (it appears so, but only Lucas and Roddenberry know for sure) I do not know if the Empire could defeat the Federation because I do not have enough information to come to that conclusion.

Exactly. YOU do not have enough information because YOU are not smart enough to figure out the difference between "blow up planet in one shot" vs "200+ torpedos to fragment asteroid".

[Darth Servo]

I am not a trektard.

The quality of your posts speaks to the contrary.

All you do is take facts from one story, and facts from another story, and slap it together and assume one side can defeat the other.

Repitition of an earlier invalid argument. To make a long story short, sar2 thinks we should just make things up out o fthin air.

I say they are not in the same universe. Why? Why don't they ever meet each other?

Since they are in different galaxies this is not surprising.

Then maybe they are not in the same time period

Given the many instances of time travel that trektards bring up, this is not a problem.

or maybe they are not in the same galaxy.

They obviously aren't in the same galaxy. The SW galaxy is obvioulsy not the Milky Way (which is where Trek takes place). A wormhole can overcome this obstacle quite nicely.

Of course I can't prove that they are in different universes. You can't prove they are in the same universe!

And if there's no evidence either way then your position wins by default?

You say that the laws of physics are the same in each universe but I say they are not. In Star Wars there is a force in the universe called the Force. Why is it that the people of Star Trek have never heard of it?

Because they haven't discovered it yet.

Why is there time travel in Star Trek?

What does this matter?

In Star Trek there is the Q

Who for all you know could be just a really advanced Jedi.

there is telepathy [in Trek]

Which is a known ability of the Force in SW so it is NOT an example of the laws of physics being different in the two universes.

even the space travel are different.

And traveiling by helicopter is different from taking a jet. This does NOT mean the laws of physics are different.

If you take the information given to you by the movies and tv shows only then you will have to conclude that the way that each travels through space is different.

AND that SW is much faster than Trek.

How do you explain teleportation? Do you really think heisenberg compensators could exist in the Star Wars universe?

Why not?

Why wouldn't the Q get involved if the Federation fought the Empire? Time and time again the Q have come along and helped the Federation.

Name ONE. Q did NOT help the Federation against the Borg OR the Dominion even though their troubles with the borg was Q's own fault. Why would he help them against the Empire?

What about the Prophets (or worm-hole-aliens as the Federation calls them) Why wouldn't they help?

Because they never did ANYTHING outside the wormhole. All they did was close the thing off to the Dominion. Since the Emipre doesn't NEED the wormhole, this is not even worth mentioning.

What about all the other many 'magical' beings in the Star Trek universe that could help?

What about them? You can't just say, "Oh look, that creature has abilities I can't understand! His owers must be unlimited!" Take what the various aliens have DEMONSTRATED doing (and not just boasted about) and THEN compare.

You get to pick and choose things from the Star Wars universe that the Empire has so I will choose things from the Star Trek universe that they have used to defeat their foes and then use it to defeat the Empire.

We DON'T "pick and choose". We take their OBSERVED CAPABILITIES and compare them while YOU like to make things up out of thin air.

3.) Ocampa (from Voyager, many of them have 'magical' powers) Kes was one of them and she helped Voyager

They have telepathy. Big deal. Did I miss something? Kes only helped ONCE. She did NOT help Voyager later against the borg when they really NEEDED that help.

3.5) the 'Caretakers' who the Ocampa worships might help too

OK. List their capabilities.

4.) the Traveler (from TNG who has more 'magical' powers) he helped the Enterprise

In Journey's End we learn that the Traveller has the same non-interferrence rules that the Federation has. The few times he DID help, he helped INDIVIDUALS, not the entire Federation.

The Empire has a lot of advanced technology that has been shown in the movies but not a lot of 'magical' powers. The only thing they have is those who are on the dark side and they don't seem to have all of the magical powers that these beings have.

Magic != all powerful. And the both sides of the force have telekinesis, telepathy, superfast speed, superhuman strength and reflexes, invisibility (shown in TPM) the ability to see the future, etc. YOU are the one who needs to go watch the movies again.

This site is so silly. I think it is fun to imagine what would happen if they did ever fight. I still think it is impossible to tell but if you say the Empire wins, then I will say the Federation wins!

There's a difference between saying, "The one side wins and here's why" and just saying "One side wins"

You can examine Star Trek's Federation, and Star War's Empire, list the technology of both and compare the technology and man power and even 'magic' powers but that still does not mean that the Empire can defeat the Federation.

Yes it DOES. Superion numbers, technology, etc are EXACTLY what wins wars. The ancient Roman army would be SLAUGHTERED by the modern day U.S. army. Guess why.

You cannot predict what the Federation or the Empire will do when put in the unlikely situation of having to do battle with each other.

Yes we can. Thats what science is all about. Of course you apparently don't know much about science do you.

Is this mesage board for opinions or what?

Its for DEBATES. You should NOT post here if you don't want people to come around and show WHY your "reasoning" is wrong.

This is just my opinion. You do not have to agree or like it.

But we CAN show why it is wrong.

This message board has over 1000 posts and topics. I can't read everything that has been written on the site.

You don't need to read the entire message board. Just read the main webpage. Click on the Star Destroyer.net logo at the top of the page. Or if you don't have much time, read "SW vs ST in five minutes"

I can't understand why are you people so damned angry. Maybe it is because the Empire has lost in battle to the Federation

Maybe its because we don't like stupidity.

[Darth Servo]

Maybe you all cannot understand my opinion. My opinion is that you cannot decide who would win.

Liar. Thats NOT what you said in your opening post. You even titled the thread, "Star Trek federation clearly wins"

I do not believe anyone here can predict what would happen if the two sides battled.

You can believe that all you want, just like there are people out there who still believe the Earth is flat. It doesn't change the fact that the Federation is out of its league against the Empire.

My point is that how can you tell what will happen if they really went to war?

Um the side with better equipment usually wins.

I agree that the Empire has more power. I agree the Empire has faster ships, I agree the Empire can have better shields, the Empire can have better Sensors, better Communications, better everything.
I have read the descriptions. I agree that the Empire has all of these things. That still does not prove that the Empire can beat the Federation in a war.

And what do you think wins wars? Oh thats right--you think its pure dumb luck.

Anything can happen in a war.

Within certain limits.

The Empire could destroy itself from the inside with corruption,

Then the Federation hasn't really beaten it then, has it.

the Federation could gain new technology,

Fed R&D is a joke. Everytime they gain some fancy new toy it ends up being lost. They've been working on Transwarp drive for 80 years (since ST3) and still don't have a working prototype.

the Federation could go back in time like in First Contact

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Ess ... TimeTravel

How do you explain the defeat of the Empire by the Rebels?

The rebels relied on guerilla tactics AND had similar tech to the empire, just fewer numbers.

If you take a list of all the capabilities of the Empire and all the capabilities of the rebels and place them side by side, then according to the reasoning of this site, then the rebels do not stand a chance.

Only because you're ignoring the fact that (aside from the Death Star) the Rebels did NOT have inferior capabilities to the Empire, just fewer numbers. If the Rebels had tried to attack a place like Coruscant directly, they would have lost immediately.

I do not know what will happen if the Empire fought the Federation.

Because you're ignorant.

That is my point. There is no way of knowing.

There's no way of knowing "for sure" what would happen in real life either. Science never claims to know "100% for sure" what the real universe is like. But we CAN make pretty damn accurate estimations of what happens. Its the same way with SW and ST.

[Darth Servo]

I thought there was free speech on the internet. I didn't mean to make anyone crazy or anything.

You have the right to say what ever you want. You just need to realize that WE HAVE THAT RIGHT AS WELL.

You all have your opinion and I have mine.

Our "opinion" has the advantage of being backed up by evidence. Your's does not.

[Ted C]

OK, I can no longer resist. If you're still around SAR2, I'll try to be nice.

All you do is take facts from one story, and facts from another story, and slap it together and assume one side can defeat the other.

Yes, it's called collecting and evaluating evidence.

I say they are not in the same universe.

Then you are obviously not willing to "suspend disbelief" to assume that both organizations exist in the real universe. We make this assumption in order to create the "neutral ground" needed for debate.

Why? Why don't they ever meet each other?

Possibly because they are widely separated by time and space. The Federation exists in the Milky Way galaxy a few centuries into the future. The Empire exists in the distant past in "a galaxy far, far away". We have to invent some kind of bridge through time and space for this confrontation to take place (hence the common assumption of a worm hole linking the two).

Then maybe they are not in the same time period, or maybe they are not in the same galaxy. Of course I can't prove that they are in different universes. You can't prove they are in the same universe!

No, we can't. We simply assume that they are for the sake of argument. If you had read Mike's site FAQ you would understand.

When Roddenberry created Star Trek he created the Star Trek universe, and when Lucas created Star Wars he created the Star Wars universe. They are not the same universe. Go ask Lucas.

Whether they were conceived by different people is irrelevant. For purposes of debate, both must exist in the same universe, and the laws of physics must allow for both civilizations to accomplish all of the feats we have seen them perform.

You say that the laws of physics are the same in each universe but I say they are not.

Then you have no desire to participate in this debate, so you should just go away. If you want to participate, then you must assume that they both exists in a single universe with a single set of physical laws that allow for all of the technological feats of both civilizaitons.

In Star Wars there is a force in the universe called the Force. Why is it that the people of Star Trek have never heard of it?

Could it be that no one in the Milky Way ever discovered the Force? It's perfectly possible, you know; only a tiny minority of the sentient beings in the Star Wars galaxy can manipulate it, and many deny that it exists (ref. Han Solo in ANH). Force sensitivity is apparently also linked to a microscopic life form ("midichlorians") native to the Star Wars galaxy; if these organisms don't exist in the Milky Way, then the Federation would be unaware of the Force.

Why is there time travel in Star Trek?

Who knows? All we know is that we've seen it happen. It would have no real effect on a war between the Federation and the Empire.

In Star Trek there is the Q , there is telepathy,even the space travel are different.

So? Different methods of space travel, strange aliens, and paranormal abilities with different origins do not automatically mean that the two civilizations must exist in different universes; a single universe can encompass all of these phenomena.

If you take the information given to you by the movies and tv shows only then you will have to conclude that the way that each travels through space is different. How do you explain teleportation? Do you really think heisenberg compensators could exist in the Star Wars universe?

I do not think the Empire uses them, nor do I think they ever invented them. That does not mean that they principles that allow them to operate do not apply in the Empire.

Why wouldn't the Q get involved if the Federation fought the Empire? Time and time again the Q have come along and helped the Federation.

You're dreaming. The Q have never helped the Federation. They have acted solely out of self interest and demonstrated extreme contempt for humanity. They placed the Federation in danger by showing them to the Borg, and they did nothing to help the humans when the Borg came to attack. The Q play with the Federation, they do not help the Federation.

What about the Prophets (or worm-hole-aliens as the Federation calls them) Why wouldn't they help?

The Prophets have little interest in anything that happens outside their wormhole. Indeed, there's no evidence they have the power to affect events occurring outside the wormhole.

What about all the other many 'magical' beings in the Star Trek universe that could help?

They simply have no motivation to do so. Even if they did, invoking the "omnipotent" beings of Star Trek is simply and admission that the Federation is incapable of handling the Empire on its own.

You get to pick and choose things from the Star Wars universe that the Empire has so I will choose things from the Star Trek universe that they have used to defeat their foes and then use it to defeat the Empire.
1.) Q he has helped the Federation many times

Name one. Especially name an incident he helped them out of that he didn't get them into in the first place.

2.) worm-hole-aliens (they have helped the Federation)

Please demonstrate how they can affect any event that doesn't involve their wormhole.

3.) Ocampa (from Voyager, many of them have 'magical' powers) Kes was one of them and she helped Voyager

The Ocampa are 70 years of travel away using Federation propulsion systems. Only a handful of Ocampa have significant psychic abilities.

3.5) the 'Caretakers' who the Ocampa worships might help too

One of the "Caretakers" is dead; the other has no love for the Federation.

4.) the Traveler (from TNG who has more 'magical' powers) he helped the Enterprise

He demonstrated his lack of interest in helping the Federation in "Journey's End". He had a personal interest in Wesley Crusher, but he had no desire to help the Federation.

and there are others.

All equally uninterested in helping the Federation, and your desire to invoke them shows that you don't think the Federation could really handle the Empire, anyway.

The Empire has a lot of advanced technology that has been shown in the movies but not a lot of 'magical' powers. The only thing they have is those who are on the dark side and they don't seem to have all of the magical powers that these beings have.

This is not a debate over whether the Q or some other Star Trek "super race" could defeat the Empire. It's a debate over whether the Federation could defeat the Empire, and you have done nothing to show that they could.

So there you have it, the Federation wins.

The way you describe it, the Federation closes its eyes and hopes some more advanced race will save their butts.

This site is so silly. I think it is fun to imagine what would happen if they did ever fight. I still think it is impossible to tell but if you say the Empire wins, then I will say the Federation wins!

The difference is that people who make a claim that one side or the other wins here are expected to show some sensible reason why.

You can examine Star Trek's Federation, and Star War's Empire, list the technology of both and compare the technology and man power and even 'magic' powers but that still does not mean that the Empire can defeat the Federation. You cannot predict what the Federation or the Empire will do when put in the unlikely situation of having to do battle with each other. For all you know, they might end up as friends.

Given the Empire's expansionistic nature (typical of dictatorships), I see no reason why the Federation would want to make them an ally. The Empire would simply see the Federation as a vulnerable target. Neither side has any reason to make nice to the other. It is not a difficult feat to look at the resources available to each side and make a prediction of what would happen if they were to go to war against each other.

Is this mesage board for opinions or what?

Among other things.

This is just my opinion. You do not have to agree or like it.

Of course not. It is also the nature of this board to shred poorly constructed arguments like yours and malign the writers of such arguments.

This message board has over 1000 posts and topics. I can't read everything that has been written on the site. I have read enough. This is just my opinion, that's all. Don't take it too seriously.

When you post an opinion on a message board, you have to expect a reply. If you post an opinion contrary to the prevailing opinion, you might as well expect counter-arguments. If you haven't even educated yourself on the subject, you can expect flames.

I can't understand why are you people so damned angry. Maybe it is because the Empire has lost in battle to the Federation.

It's not really anger. There is some frustration, though, when a know-nothing out of the blue posts claims of victory without even doing any research or constructing a sensible argument.

[thecreech]

Wow i left for the weekend and this thread is still going and damn Darth Servo. 4 posts in a row. your a mad man!

[Darth Servo]

Wow i left for the weekend and this thread is still going and damn Darth Servo. 4 posts in a row. your a mad man!

Nah, just bored.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

He's dead people, stop shooting teh corpse!

[Sea Skimmer]

He's dead people, stop shooting teh corpse!

*Starts passing out buckets of gasoline*

That’s right, time for burning!

[Captain Cyran]

He's dead people, stop shooting teh corpse!

I was gonna say something, but it was too funny letting them spend all this time on responses.

[mauldooku]

He's dead people, stop shooting teh corpse!

I was gonna say something, but it was too funny letting them spend all this time on responses.

Indeed.

[Tribun]

I wonder if Souerign comments this thread when he is back....

[Falkenhayn]

*Exit Lurker Mode*

Wow. I really am impressed by the restraint show by you vets. I read his first post and figured it would be but seconds into Hiroshima Two occured. But Nevermind.

Did Sar2 ever acknowledge the fact that a Imperial Star Destroyer can dish out firepower on the order of several hundred gigatons per broadside per second?

[Soontir C'boath]

I believed he once said. "The Empire has superior power numbers etc but still won't win"So maybe. ~Jason

[Falkenhayn]

I believed he once said. "The Empire has superior power numbers etc but still won't win"So maybe. ~Jason

Whew. Alright so perhaps there is hope for the lad. Just have to spend 4 more pages flogging the truth into him.