Scarlet-Spider vs Jedi

[KK]

You mean the "lasers" that were visable and thus could not have been lasers?

Ever hear of artistic license? They were lasers.

Which is why we see that demonstrated so often, right?

You roll your eyes almost as though you have a fraction of a clue what the fuck you're talking about.

Do you really want me to start posting all the times we've seen Spider-Man leaping around attacking his opponent as though they were a statue compared to him?

He doesn't ever run at top speeds because he uses his webbing to get around.

Put it this way. The Hulk can catch tank shells, reach escape velocity, and catch up to rockets. He is an absolute statue next to Spider-Man. Wonder Man sees the world in slow motion, has instantaneous reflexes, and can outpace the fastest jet in the world. Spider-Man dazzles him with his speed. Firelord can navitage asterod fields at superspeed and travel across galaxies on his own power. Spider-Man makes him look like a statue.

Pictures speak louder than words.


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Never demonstrated indeed.

And here's an interesting one. He fights the new Warriors. One of them has telekenesis, and one of them can see a moment into the future. It just seems to fit here.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/shurukudemon ... riors1.jpg
http://members.lycos.co.uk/shurukudemon ... riors2.jpg

Simply denying something does not make it so. The Jedi can run at atleast 60MPH unless you can provide proof otherwise. And that's from the movies, a SW gamer story (forget the title, appeared in SWG5) has a darksider running down a speederbike.

Which isn't impressive in the least.

[KK]

I mean it just seems like a very brutal move. And as far as Luke using it, I just assumed its because he wasnt adequately trained and he was struggling between light and dark side paths during ROTJ.

I think they missed the whole symbolism of Luke wearing black and struggling with finding the right path in that movie.

[Ghost Rider]

Oh yes...MArvel boy who isn't in life threatening...and oh yes the seer who sees into the future.

Wait no pre-cog?

Aw...

Amazing how this applies to BEN REILLY.

But anything Spiderman does because of ten years of experience is passed onto Scarlet Spider.

[KK]

I take your blatant DODGE as a concession.

Since Ben Reilly has all of the experience of Peter Parker up until the split anyway. Hell, for awhile they thought he was the real Peter Parker. You don't think that idea came about due to his lack of knowledge of Peter's life, do you?

[Darth Wong]

KK, don't be an idiot. Spidey survives blows from beings like the Hulk because he instinctively rolls to avoid the brunt of the blow, not because he's indestructible. You can't roll to avoid a Force-choke on your throat, and superior musculature DOESN'T HELP YOUR THROAT. That's why a 98-lb weakling and a 300-lb linebacker will both go down the same way if you can land a solid hit to the throat, dumb-ass.

Did you see the Juggernaut picture, Dumbass?

Did you see the picture where Scorpion broke his hand on Spider-Man's body, dumbass?

Did you see the one where the truck crashed into him and it was like it hit a wall, dumbass?

Did you even look at the pictures, dumbass?

Did you know Spider-Man can hold his breath for over 20 minutes, dumbass?

Dumbass.

Did any of them hit him right in the throat, bypassing all of his defenses with TK, dumb-ass?

[Ghost Rider]

Oh he has all the memories...even though it only stands to a certain point...of course he's Spidey down to the last drop regardless of when the clone stop being Peter Parker...but that's not to be debated...because well it's a fact when it was established.

You do remember the split right?

Oh yes...after the Jackal incident....hmmm sometime ago.

But this makes Ben have all of Peter's experince because you like leap of logics

You've still yet to refute the choking or rolling of punches.

It's nice when someone provides their own foolishness.

[AdmiralKanos]

By the way, if you're going to go by the most extreme examples of Spiderman's ability rather than more mundane incidents such as him getting whacked by Frank Castle or fought to a stalemate by the completely human-strength Daredevil, I must remind you that according to the literature, a group of Jedi can use the Force to hurl an entire fleet of multi-billion ton starships hundreds of millions of kilometres at a substantial fraction of the speed of light.

What's good for the goose ...

[KK]

Did any of them hit him right in the throat, bypassing all of his defenses with TK, dumb-ass?

He.

Getting this?

Can hold his breath.

Got that, right? Holding breath.

For over 20 minutes.

He can hold his breath for over 20 minutes. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and let you say that the Jedi would have open game with Ben's throat. That gives him 20 minutes.

[KK]

By the way, if you're going to go by the most extreme examples of Spiderman's ability rather than more mundane incidents such as him getting whacked by Frank Castle or fought to a stalemate by the completely human-strength Daredevil, I must remind you that according to the literature, a group of Jedi can use the Force to hurl an entire fleet of multi-billion ton starships hundreds of millions of kilometres at a substantial fraction of the speed of light.

What's good for the goose ...

Spider-Man is well established to hold back both consciously and subconsciously against humans level characters. This has been long established.

That's different from a single outlying incident that doesn't fit continuity.

[AdmiralKanos]

Did any of them hit him right in the throat, bypassing all of his defenses with TK, dumb-ass?

He.

Getting this?

Can hold his breath.

Got that, right? Holding breath.

For over 20 minutes.

He can hold his breath for over 20 minutes. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and let you say that the Jedi would have open game with Ben's throat. That gives him 20 minutes.

Or 20 seconds if Spidey doesn't get to take a deep breath beforehand and even less if the Jedi in question simply pinches the carotid artery.

[KK]

But this makes Ben have all of Peter's experince because you like leap of logics

I just noticed something.

What the fuck does experience have to do with his level of endurance and durability?

You've still yet to refute the choking or rolling of punches.

Gee, except the pictures I posted where he didn't and couldn't roll with the punches.

Like the Juggernaut one. Or how about the one where Scorpion breaks his hand hitting Spidey? Regardless of if he rolled or whatever, what do you attribute the injury of Scorpion's hand to if not Spidey's durability? Scorpion even said, "It felt like hitting a bulldozer."

[KK]

Or 20 seconds if Spidey doesn't get to take a deep breath beforehand and even less if the Jedi in question simply pinches the carotid artery.

What didn't you guys get about the light side/dark side thing? Did Lucas not make it clear enough?

[KK]

Oh, and you'll note that Jedi have always needed to use hand gestures and get a bead on their target in order to use their tk on it.

If Spidey acts even remotely in character the Jedi wouldn't be able to get a bead on him long enough to do a force choke.

[AdmiralKanos]

Or 20 seconds if Spidey doesn't get to take a deep breath beforehand and even less if the Jedi in question simply pinches the carotid artery.

What didn't you guys get about the light side/dark side thing? Did Lucas not make it clear enough?

What did you not get about Spidey not being a bad guy either, Kaptain Krackhead?

How many double-standards must we endure? First you use the most extreme examples of Spidey's strength but ignore high Jedi watermarks as "outliers", then you insist that the Jedi will hold back and not do certain things because they're good guys, but act as though the same reasoning does not apply to Spidey. And yes, I'm talking about Spidey, since you've basically been talking about him exclusively, not the clone.

[AdmiralKanos]

Oh, and you'll note that Jedi have always needed to use hand gestures and get a bead on their target in order to use their tk on it.

Wrong. That is something they tend to do, but it is not necessary. Vader didn't do it in TESB when he was hurling objects at Luke. In fact, he was engaging him in lightsabre combat at the time.

If Spidey acts even remotely in character the Jedi wouldn't be able to get a bead on him long enough to do a force choke.

Vader Force-choked Prince Xizor in a skyhook over Coruscant, thousands of kilometres away from his present location (although he relented before killing him). All he needs is an idea of where the person is.

[Strider119]

That is a good point

It could be argued that Spiderman would move too fast for the Jedi to target


but I still am unclear about Jedi using chokes and heart rips and bullshit, isn't that increddibly out of character for a jedi?





I'm too sexy for Mulan, New York and Japan:
Strider119

[KK]

What did you not get about Spidey not being a bad guy either, Kaptain Krackhead?

I must have missed the part where I claimed Spidey would pull an AK-47 out of a web pack or do anything else that would be lethal.

How many double-standards must we endure?

As many as you can make up and pretend came from me.

First you use the most extreme examples of Spidey's strength but ignore high Jedi watermarks as "outliers",

How many things are wrong with that statement?

1) Spidey has dozens of examples on this level, compared to one outlyer example for the Jedi, and one which blatantly contradicts movie continuity at that.

2) Spidey has a written, explained, canon explination for his low-end feats not matching up to his high-end feats. Jedi? They have no such explination.

Eh, two is enough.

then you insist that the Jedi will hold back and not do certain things because they're good guys, but act as though the same reasoning does not apply to Spidey.

You'll have to remind me when I argued that Spidey would pull some blatantly lethal stunt that is *explicitly* out of character for him, so much so that it has a label of "Dark Spider".

And yes, I'm talking about Spidey, since you've basically been talking about him exclusively, not the clone.

You would have a small point, were my examples not all of physical ability, which has little to nothing to do with experience.

[AdmiralKanos]

That is a good point

It could be argued that Spiderman would move too fast for the Jedi to target

Star Destroyers can accelerate at 3000 G's, yet a group of Jedi were able to seize an entire fleet of them and whip them right out of a star system. Spiderman's speed won't be a problem.

but I still am unclear about Jedi using chokes and heart rips and bullshit, isn't that increddibly out of character for a jedi?

Of course it is. It's also out of character for Spiderman to attack a guy who hasn't hurt anyone, isn't it? So drop the "your side will hold back but ours won't" argument. It's a sad cop-out.

[AdmiralKanos]

I must have missed the part where I claimed Spidey would pull an AK-47 out of a web pack or do anything else that would be lethal.

Oh, so Spiderman is in the habit of attacking guys who walk around in monk's robes and don't hurt anyone? He'll "hold back" (in your words) against Daredevil and other humans but not against a Jedi, who appears completely human and hasn't hurt anyone? Both sides are acting out of character; you're just too much of a weasel to admit that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

1) Spidey has dozens of examples on this level, compared to one outlyer example for the Jedi, and one which blatantly contradicts movie continuity at that.

And how does it contradict movie continuity? According to the Marvel Universe specs, Spider can lift approximately 15 tons. Yoda lifted an X-wing, which masses at least that much, when he was so old that he was near death, and he didn't have to touch it. How's Spidey going to handle something on his throat which applies as much force as he can apply with his entire body?

2) Spidey has a written, explained, canon explination for his low-end feats not matching up to his high-end feats. Jedi? They have no such explination.

"Size matters not." Perhaps your hearing is defective, to go along with your defective thinking.

[KK]

Star Destroyers can accelerate at 3000 G's, yet a group of Jedi were able to seize an entire fleet of them and whip them right out of a star system.

You and I both know that was an isolated incident of hack writing.

Spiderman's speed won't be a problem.

But if you want to play it that way, just note how Firelord and Silver Surfer are statues compared to Spider-Man.

The Silver Surfer once covered a full light year in roughly the span of a second.

But we don't use bullshit ABC logic, do we?

Of course it is. It's also out of character for Spiderman to attack a guy who hasn't hurt anyone, isn't it? So drop the "your side will hold back but ours won't" argument. It's a sad cop-out.

Look, we both know you are grasping at straws with this.

The characters are in a fight. You can't say that we're being hypocrites for thinking Spider-Man would even punch him, just because we don't think Yoda would turn to the fucking dark side all of the sudden.

[AdmiralKanos]

You and I both know that was an isolated incident of hack writing.

So? All of Spiderman is fucking hack writing. The point is that it's official, and all of your whining won't change that.

But if you want to play it that way, just note how Firelord and Silver Surfer are statues compared to Spider-Man.

The Silver Surfer once covered a full light year in roughly the span of a second.

But we don't use bullshit ABC logic, do we?

You use bullshit logic. Surfer is much faster in space on his board than he is on foot; you're trying to slip another pile of deceptive bullshit by us.

The characters are in a fight. You can't say that we're being hypocrites for thinking Spider-Man would even punch him, just because we don't think Yoda would turn to the fucking dark side all of the sudden.

The characters are in a fight. There is no reason to believe that a Jedi, who is much more powerful than Daredevil, will do so much worse than Daredevil did. The point (which you are evidently too dense to grasp) is that all of your excuses for the Daredevil fight apply equally to a Jedi fight.

[Strider119]

Of course it is. It's also out of character for Spiderman to attack a guy who hasn't hurt anyone, isn't it? So drop the "your side will hold back but ours won't" argument. It's a sad cop-out.

In a battle between the 2, Ppidey will not use lethal force, its not in his character

AND I NEVER EVER EVER STATED THAT HE WOULD. EVER. Stop making shit up

Do me a favor and state where I said that he would do something as bruttal as removeing internal organs and whatnot before the battle even begins

I think Spidey would use his skill, agility, speed, webbing and strength advantage to defeat a Jedi. But I never said he would murder them.

And what was the very first defense for the Jedi? He chokes spidey to death and then rips his heart out bla bla bla bullshit

Spidey in character defeats a Jedi in character





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Strider119

[AdmiralKanos]

Spidey in character defeats a Jedi in character

Jedi kill people all the time, dumb-ass. When the Neimoidian discovers that two Jedi are loose on his ship, he quakes in fear and says "we will not survive this". What the fuck do YOU think that means? That Jedi normally capture people, tie them up, and sing kumbuya with them?

[KK]

The characters are in a fight. There is no reason to believe that a Jedi, who is much more powerful than Daredevil, will do so much worse than Daredevil did. The point (which you are evidently too dense to grasp) is that all of your excuses for the Daredevil fight apply equally to a Jedi fight.

So your argument is that Yoda would beat him because he is more powerful than Daredevil?

Want me to list the people Spider-Man has beaten who utterly dwarf Daredevil?

The Daredevil incident is a tiny blip in Spidey's career, and one of his worst moments ever, not to mention that it's ancient. You're trying to use one ancient blemish against a mountain of counter-evidence to define him. That's retarded.

[AdmiralKanos]

The characters are in a fight. There is no reason to believe that a Jedi, who is much more powerful than Daredevil, will do so much worse than Daredevil did. The point (which you are evidently too dense to grasp) is that all of your excuses for the Daredevil fight apply equally to a Jedi fight.

So your argument is that Yoda would beat him because he is more powerful than Daredevil?

No, my argument is that Yoda would beat him because his TK is at least as powerful as Spiderman's entire body. In case you didn't notice, I will repeat myself: Marvel Universe quantifies Spidey's strength at 15 tons total lift. Yoda can do that with his mind, and Spidey will not survive the equivalent of his entire strength pressing on the inside of his fucking throat.

My side-point was simply that your excuses for Spidey's low points apply equally to him facing a Jedi.

Want me to list the people Spider-Man has beaten who utterly dwarf Daredevil?

Were any of them a fucking Star Destroyer?

The Daredevil incident is a tiny blip in Spidey's career, and one of his worst moments ever, not to mention that it's ancient. You're trying to use one ancient blemish against a mountain of counter-evidence to define him. That's retarded.

So? You're trying to delete an incident from the SW record because it bothers you. That's completely dishonest.