Scarlet-Spider vs Jedi

[AdmiralKanos]

By the way, your whole line of reasoning is that Spiderman must be more powerful than anyone he's ever beaten, which is moronic. His whole essence is luck; Batman once beat Superman, but that doesn't mean he must actually be stronger than Superman.

[Strider119]

Jedi kill people all the time, dumb-ass. When the Neimoidian discovers that two Jedi are loose on his ship, he quakes in fear and says "we will not survive this". What the fuck do YOU think that means? That Jedi normally capture people, tie them up, and sing kumbuya with them?

Funny that dosent seem to be the norm in all the movies so far

I dont see light side Jedi running around removing the internal organs of anyone and everyone they encounter in battle

Light Side Jedi fight defensively, especailly with thier powers.

Why didn't Obi Wan just rip Jango Fette's heart out of his chest and piss in the open wound when they fought?

Possibly because they aren't as bloodthirsty as you fantasize them to be





happy go lucky:
strider119

[KK]

No, my argument is that Yoda would beat him because his TK is at least as powerful as Spiderman's entire body. In case you didn't notice, I will repeat myself: Marvel Universe quantifies Spidey's strength at 15 tons total lift.

The Marvel handbook stats are worth two things.

Jack, and shit.

Class 15 is just a nice placement for him. He can easily do 15 ton reps on a benchpress. Marvel handbooks, and especially the website stats, are notoriously horrible, to the point of being one big joke.

His actual strength is found in the comics. I'll give you a small taste.

ASM #424 (Spidey hoists a subway carriage over his head)

ASM #365 (Spidey deadlifts a massive pile of rubble, including at least one subway carriage)

ASM #33 (Spidey deadlifts a massive piece of machinery, which by his estimate outweighed a "locomotive". Reprinted in Marvel Tales #172)

MTU #72 (weakened by tranquilizers, Spidey still manages to flip over an armoured truck while lying flat on his back beneath it)

WOSM #4 (Spidey supports part of a building)

SM #98 (Spidey supports part of a building)

ASM #320 (Spidey hoists one mini-tank into the air, smashing it to the ground, and swings another on the end of a webline wrecking a third)

ASM #321 (Paladin is struggling to lift one end of a railroad carriage, when Spidey strolls up & knocks it over with a finger-flick)

WOSM #44 (Spidey catches a car tossed at him, & tosses it right back)

WOSM #89 (Spidey swings a pair of cars into the air on weblines, using them as baseball bats)

MTU #126 (Spidey catches & stops a car hurled through the air by the Hulk)

ASM #400 (Ben Reilly in Spidey-suit stops a diesel truck)

WOSM #120 (Scarlet Spider stops an armoured truck)

Marvel Holiday Special 1994 ((January) Combining his own spider-strength with web-nets, and webbing on the rails, Spidey manages to bring an entire subway train to a halt)

I've got scans for a few of those and others.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/shurukudemon ... dlift1.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/shurukudemon ... dlift3.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/shurukudemon ... inger1.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/shurukudemon ... ingcar.jpg

http://members.lycos.co.uk/shurukudemon ... struck.jpg

The 15 ton thing is pretty much worthless.

Yoda can do that with his mind, and Spidey will not survive the equivalent of his entire strength pressing on the inside of his fucking throat.

Yoda can do that. When concentrating. With great effort. And it takes time.

Spidey'll pop him on the noggin and put him into dreamland long before the Jedi can get a grip on hsi throat and exert that much pressure.

Were any of them a fucking Star Destroyer?

If by star destroyer you mean people who can destroy stars, well then yes, some of them were.

So? You're trying to delete an incident from the SW record because it bothers you. That's completely dishonest.

And that's the funny thing.

You're trying to define Jedi by their single greatest example that far, far, far, far, FAR outdoes anything else a Jedi has ever done, and frankly seems to have been written during a heroin overdose. At the same time you're also trying to define Spider-Man by his worst ever example.

I am saying that we don't define things by lone outliers, and I am sticking by that. You are saying that we do define things by lone outliers, but for SW we use the top and for Spidey we use the bottom.

[HemlockGrey]

Vader force-choked people in no more than a second or two. Spidey's fantastic breath-holding capabilities don't mean jack or shit if he's THROAT HAS BEEN CRUSHED.

[KK]

Oh, and if you even fucking think about chastisingme again for using Peter Parker feats, when the setup post clearly states no force chokes, I think you know where you can shove it.

[HemlockGrey]

So, basically, the only way Spidey can defeat a Jedi is if a Jedi's capabilities are severely limited.

[KK]

So, basically, the only way Spidey can defeat a Jedi is if a Jedi's capabilities are severely limited.

Jedi =/= Sith

And most definitely Darth Vader does not equal a stock Jedi.


Even so Spidey could beat him by punching his lights out before he manages to pull of the choke. It takes him seconds to choke a person. Now imagine that their throat is more in line with a steel pipe.

[KK]

Or let's try this reply.

So, basically, the only way Spidey can defeat a Jedi is if a Jedi's capabilities are severely limited.

So, basically, the only way the Jedi can defeat Spidey is if the Jedi disband and join the darkside.

:insert another majorly overused smiley face:

[Darth Wong]

The Marvel handbook stats are worth two things.

Jack, and shit.

As usual, you simply dismiss evidence you can't deal with. This grows tiresome, Kaptain Krackhead.

I've got scans for a few of those and others.

Perfectly consistent with a 15-ton overhead lift. A New York subway car weighs approximately 30 tons when empty, and he's lifting it near one end, which means that the other end is resting on something. If he can lift 15 tons overhead, he should be able to hoist one end of a 30-ton subway car.

Next:

He lifts a bus over his head; something he's done since Day One. I couldn't find a spec for NYC buses, but this city bus weighs in at 11 tons. I don't see how this contradicts anything. As for the other frame (where he lifts a tank), that is some kind of toy tank. Look at how small it is, relative to his own body! It's a small fraction of the size of an Abrams, and undoubtedly a very small fraction of its weight too. Still no dice, Kaptain Krackhead.

Next:

Oh wow, an empty boxcar, which someone is already holding off the ground. If it took that much extra force to flip it over, the metal siding where his finger struck the car would have buckled like paper. Perhaps that didn't occur to you? I've noticed that a lot of things don't seem to occur to you.

Next:

Wow, Spidey can catch a two-door compact car, whose curb weight is probably around 1.5 tons at most. And you feel this is completely inconsistent with a 15-ton lift ... how?

Next:

Notice how the truck doesn't stop dead, but simply starts slowing down with Spidey pushing on it. So Spidey can apply as much force as a truck's brakes ... oooooooh.

The 15 ton thing is pretty much worthless.

You seem to think so, because you obviously lack even the most rudimentary analytical skills.

Yoda can do that. When concentrating. With great effort. And it takes time.

Yoda is so old that he's near death in TESB. He dies in ROTJ, remember? A Jedi at the peak of their power will be able to react faster. Moreover, he will have all the time in the world, since he doesn't need to close to short range in order to use this attack. So far, the linchpin of your argument is that the Jedi will hold back; honestly, if you need the other side to hold back in order to win, then you're admitting defeat.

Were any of them a fucking Star Destroyer?

If by star destroyer you mean people who can destroy stars, well then yes, some of them were.

Actually, I was talking about a multi-billion ton warship which can turn the entire surface of a planet into glowing lava.

I am saying that we don't define things by lone outliers, and I am sticking by that. You are saying that we do define things by lone outliers, but for SW we use the top and for Spidey we use the bottom.

Bullshit; your attempts to disprove the official 15-ton figure have failed, and I don't need anything beyond midrange Jedi strength examples to defeat a guy with a 15-ton lift and no defense against TK.

[Sea Skimmer]

An armored vehicle of that size would weigh around 15-30 tons depending on mission and design.

[KK]

As usual, you simply dismiss evidence you can't deal with. This grows tiresome, Kaptain Krackhead.

No, I'm simply stating that the marvel handbook is neither accurate nor a canon source of information.

Perfectly consistent with a 15-ton overhead lift. A New York subway car weighs approximately 30 tons when empty, and he's lifting it near one end, which means that the other end is resting on something. If he can lift 15 tons overhead, he should be able to hoist one end of a 30-ton subway car.

That would work if we couldn't see on the edge of the picture that the whole thing is off the ground.

As for the other frame (where he lifts a tank), that is some kind of toy tank. Look at how small it is, relative to his own body! It's a small fraction of the size of an Abrams, and undoubtedly a very small fraction of its weight too. Still no dice, Kaptain Krackhead.

The tank was not written as a toy tank. The artist's lack of perspective doesn't negate him being written as lifting a tank. This is a common occurance in comics.

Oh wow, an empty boxcar, which someone is already holding off the ground. If it took that much extra force to flip it over, the metal siding where his finger struck the car would have buckled like paper. Perhaps that didn't occur to you? I've noticed that a lot of things don't seem to occur to you.

Breaking out the classic Wong over-analyzation already? "Waa, the metal didn't dent!" The scene was written as Spidey dazzling the guy by knocking over a boxcar with one finger.

Wow, Spidey can catch a two-door compact car, whose curb weight is probably around 1.5 tons at most. And you feel this is completely inconsistent with a 15-ton lift ... how?

You're the physics guy, aren't you?

1.5 tons doesn't factor in the force that the Hulk throws thing with.

Notice how the truck doesn't stop dead, but simply starts slowing down with Spidey pushing on it. So Spidey can apply as much force as a truck's brakes ... oooooooh.

Notice how the truck is wrecked upon collision with Spidey, who is unharmed. Notice the difference between that scene and what would happen if a normal person tried that, which is the level of durability somebody was trying to pass of for Spidey earlier.

You know damn well bracing yourself for impact with a speeding truck and stopping it is much more than having the power of some brakes.

Yoda is so old that he's near death in TESB. He dies in ROTJ, remember? A Jedi at the peak of their power will be able to react faster.

What the fuck are you babbling about?

Your argument is now that Yoda is a pussy Jedi and a stock Jedi would be much more powerful than him?

I swear sometimes I think you guys watched the movies in slow motion with no sound and didn't take note of anything other than the number of pixels in various turbolaser blasts.

Moreover, he will have all the time in the world, since he doesn't need to close to short range in order to use this attack. So far, the linchpin of your argument is that the Jedi will hold back; honestly, if you need the other side to hold back in order to win, then you're admitting defeat.

I mearly say the Jedi wouldn't suddenly turn to the dark side just because you can't stand to see them lose.

The fact that he wouldn't use the attack is icing on the cake. The fact that there's no reason to think it'd work on Spidey, and if it did he coudl react fast enough to save himself, that's the meat and potatoes.

Actually, I was talking about a multi-billion ton warship which can turn the entire surface of a planet into glowing lava.

In other words, something that is a joke to guys Spidey has beaten.


I noticed you ignored the other strength feats I posted. Like Spidey supporting buildings on more than one occasion, deadlifting the weight of a locomotive, and deadlifting a whole pile of rubble, of which a subway car was just a part.

[Darth Wong]

No, I'm simply stating that the marvel handbook is neither accurate nor a canon source of information.

Since you can't show that the 15 ton figure is wrong, perhaps you can provide your proof that the Marvel Universe figures have no status?

That would work if we couldn't see on the edge of the picture that the whole thing is off the ground.

Bullshit. You can't see the entire back end of the subway car in that picture. Moreover, the very limited metallic deformation of the subway car's body indicates that he can't possibly be supporting its entire weight, since he would have negative leverage and would have to apply more than enough force to shred that metal window frame..

The tank was not written as a toy tank. The artist's lack of perspective doesn't negate him being written as lifting a tank. This is a common occurance in comics.

The artist's lack of perspective is canon. The tank is small. Too bad for you.

Breaking out the classic Wong over-analyzation already? "Waa, the metal didn't dent!" The scene was written as Spidey dazzling the guy by knocking over a boxcar with one finger.

In other words, since you lack the brains necessary to analyze things, you simply scream that I shouldn't analyze them either. Poor baby ... you're just jealous that I know how to think and you don't.

Face it; that picture shows Spidey hitting a boxcar so lightly that he barely dents the wall. That is CANON, and your refusal to deal with it is not my problem.

You're the physics guy, aren't you?

1.5 tons doesn't factor in the force that the Hulk throws thing with.

Yes, I'm the physics guy, and you are obviously NOT. So don't get in over your head, Kaptain Krackhead. You don't know the velocity, and the force is dependent upon the stopping distance, which we ALSO don't know. If you care to prove that it's impossible to stop that car with a 15-ton lift capability, please go ahead. Otherwise, stop presenting "evidence" for which you cannot even present a rational analysis.

Notice how the truck is wrecked upon collision with Spidey, who is unharmed. Notice the difference between that scene and what would happen if a normal person tried that, which is the level of durability somebody was trying to pass of for Spidey earlier.

Yes, Spidey is tougher than a normal person. Since I was claiming that he can do an overhead lift of 15 tons, which is some 300 times the strength of a typical normal human, this hardly disproves my point. Yet again, the point remains: the official figure is 15 tons, and you have failed to disprove it.

You know damn well bracing yourself for impact with a speeding truck and stopping it is much more than having the power of some brakes.

His feet are sliding, dumb-ass. It is exactly the same as having brakes. In fact, you have no proof that he stopped it in a shorter distance than its own brakes would have, so it may have been LESS power than its brakes.

Your argument is now that Yoda is a pussy Jedi and a stock Jedi would be much more powerful than him?

A group of younger Jedi threws a fleet of Star Destroyers out of the star system. This is the only rationalization.

I swear sometimes I think you guys watched the movies in slow motion with no sound and didn't take note of anything other than the number of pixels in various turbolaser blasts.

And this disproves the point ... how? Oh yeah, you just think you're being clever. Too bad it didn't work.

I mearly say the Jedi wouldn't suddenly turn to the dark side just because you can't stand to see them lose.

Prove that the Jedi must turn to the dark side in order to use the Force offensively. The only power which is clearly exclusive to the Sith is the Force lightning, and you haven't got a shred of evidence to show that Jedi must use the Dark side in order to do a choke. Your only "evidence" is the fact that Luke was wearing black, for fuck's sake.

The fact that he wouldn't use the attack is icing on the cake. The fact that there's no reason to think it'd work on Spidey, and if it did he coudl react fast enough to save himself, that's the meat and potatoes.

You can't dodge TK, dumb-ass.

Actually, I was talking about a multi-billion ton warship which can turn the entire surface of a planet into glowing lava.

In other words, something that is a joke to guys Spidey has beaten.

See earlier point about your moronic logic. That same Star Destroyer could vapourize NYC and everyone in it with a single shot, including Spidey.

I noticed you ignored the other strength feats I posted. Like Spidey supporting buildings on more than one occasion, deadlifting the weight of a locomotive, and deadlifting a whole pile of rubble, of which a subway car was just a part.

Since your pictures were much less impressive than your descriptions thereof, I have no reason to believe that your descriptions of these other incidents are not similarly exaggerated. By the way, a REAL powerlifter can deadlift a half-ton, even though he can't military-press anywhere near that much. Obviously, your ignorance extends beyond rudimentary high school physics and encompasses human musculature.

[KK]

Since you can't show that the 15 ton figure is wrong, perhaps you can provide your proof that the Marvel Universe figures have no status?

It's known fact that the handbook and website stats are not canon. The Class system is far outdated and doesn't work they way you assume, anyway. The Thing is sill listed as Class 80 or so, if my memory serves me. He's been shown lifting many hundreds of tons. His Class rank still doesn't change. He should be Class 100, but he's not.

The handbook Class system has no bearing on debates. You would be laughed off of a comic board for trying to use handbooks as canon.

Bullshit. You can't see the entire back end of the subway car in that picture.

You can see the sky in between the ground and the back corner of the car.

Moreover, the very limited metallic deformation of the subway car's body indicates that he can't possibly be supporting its entire weight, since he would have negative leverage and would have to apply more than enough force to shred that metal window frame.

Fucking H Christ. You're debating COMIC BOOK SCANS. Not photographs. Not live film. It's comic art. Drawn by comic artists.

The intention of the writer, which was to show Spider-Man lifting a subway car, overrides any artistic flaws in physics.

The artist's lack of perspective is canon. The tank is small. Too bad for you.

No, it isn't. Comics are not debated as though they were live photographs. They never have been. The artists perspective would be seen as an artist error. Not as canon that overrides the writer's script.

In other words, since you lack the brains necessary to analyze things, you simply scream that I shouldn't analyze them either. Poor baby ... you're just jealous that I know how to think and you don't.

You've yet to learn the difference between analyzation and over-analyzation.

Face it; that picture shows Spidey hitting a boxcar so lightly that he barely dents the wall. That is CANON, and your refusal to deal with it is not my problem.

No, the picture is an illustration of a comic script calling for Spider-Man to knock over a boxcar with one finger. The idea that the thing could've been knocked over by a feather is laughable. That was not the intent of the writer.

Yet again, the point remains: the official figure is 15 tons, and you have failed to disprove it.

No, that is not an "official" figure.

A group of younger Jedi threws a fleet of Star Destroyers out of the star system. This is the only rationalization.

That is NOT a rationalization. A rationalization requires some rationality. One instence of hack writing doesn't change a fundamental concept of the SW universe.

It's fiction, and a writer ficked up. When Yoda is constantly made out to be the most powerful Jedi, and then suddenly some random Jedi are hurling billions of tons around and making Yoda look like a complete chump, that is an error; not the standard.

It certainly isn't grounds for saying that the averge Jedi is much more powerful than Yoda. That's almost insulting.

Prove that the Jedi must turn to the dark side in order to use the Force offensively. The only power which is clearly exclusive to the Sith is the Force lightning, and you haven't got a shred of evidence to show that Jedi must use the Dark side in order to do a choke. Your only "evidence" is the fact that Luke was wearing black, for fuck's sake.

For all of your physics knowledge, you are flat-out terrible at analyzing fictional literature.

You can't dodge TK, dumb-ass.

Which explains why the force users have always had to point at their targets, make hand gestures towards them, and all that. Explains why Yoda saved Obi-Wan and Anakin with a passive thought rather than needing to put away his lightsaber, lift his arms towards the rubble, and twist his hands around like he was pulling invisible strings.

See earlier point about your moronic logic. That same Star Destroyer could vapourize NYC and everyone in it with a single shot, including Spidey.

As could Silver Surfer, Firelord, and Thor.

Since your pictures were much less impressive than your descriptions thereof, I have no reason to believe that your descriptions of these other incidents are not similarly exaggerated. By the way, a REAL powerlifter can deadlift a half-ton, even though he can't military-press anywhere near that much. Obviously, your ignorance extends beyond rudimentary high school physics and encompasses human musculature.

How can I exaggerate Spider-Man stating that he was lifting the weight of a locomotive?

[KK]

Remember in Episode II when the beasts were released into the arena and Anakin saved the day by bursting the beasts' hearts?

Me, either.

[Darth Wong]

It's known fact that the handbook and website stats are not canon.

Then perhaps you can explain how this is "known".

You can see the sky in between the ground and the back corner of the car.

A tiny fraction of the far edge is visible. Most of it is obscured. Try again.

Fucking H Christ. You're debating COMIC BOOK SCANS. Not photographs. Not live film. It's comic art. Drawn by comic artists.

And it doesn't show what you want it to show, so you simply ignore it and substitute what you think it should look like. Pathetic.

The intention of the writer, which was to show Spider-Man lifting a subway car, overrides any artistic flaws in physics.

Ah, relying on your telepathic connection to the writer's brain now, I see. Sorry, but since the artist is as much a "creator" of a comic book as the writer (and is often the same person), this is bullshit.

No, it isn't. Comics are not debated as though they were live photographs. They never have been. The artists perspective would be seen as an artist error. Not as canon that overrides the writer's script.

How do you know it's an "error"? Oh yeah, it doesn't support what you want it to support, so you call it an "error".

You've yet to learn the difference between analyzation and over-analyzation.

And you have yet to explain this difference. Prove that the analysis is wrong, or shut the fuck up.

No, the picture is an illustration of a comic script calling for Spider-Man to knock over a boxcar with one finger. The idea that the thing could've been knocked over by a feather is laughable. That was not the intent of the writer.

No, it was the intent of the writer to show it being knocked over by a guy who can military-press 15 tons. And it is completely consistent with that, despite your infantile whinging.

A group of younger Jedi threws a fleet of Star Destroyers out of the star system. This is the only rationalization.

That is NOT a rationalization. A rationalization requires some rationality. One instence of hack writing doesn't change a fundamental concept of the SW universe.

Then perhaps you can show where the logical fallacy exists in that reasoning, since you seem to think it's not "rational".

It's fiction, and a writer ficked up. When Yoda is constantly made out to be the most powerful Jedi, and then suddenly some random Jedi are hurling billions of tons around and making Yoda look like a complete chump, that is an error; not the standard.

This grows tiresome; your ENTIRE FUCKING ARGUMENT is now based on your belief that whenever someone shows or writes anything you don't agree with, it must be an "error". In other words, you have basically conceded that the evidence does not support you, and that you have no choice but to selectively dismiss pieces of it in order to save your lame-ass argument. Concession accepted; you lose.

<snip more repetitions of the same basic fallacy>

How can I exaggerate Spider-Man stating that he was lifting the weight of a locomotive?

Countless ways; provide the evidence and then we'll talk. So far, every attempt by you to provide real evidence has backfired in your face and forced you into laughable "ummmm, that's a mistake" excuses for what you THOUGHT were strong points in your favour.

[Sea Skimmer]

How can I exaggerate Spider-Man stating that he was lifting the weight of a locomotive?

Considering that some locomotives weight a hundred times more then others

[Strider119]

Well in all fairness, Obi Wan did rip Jangos neck into pieces and fling it off the planet all before Jango was able to fire one blaster shot




oh wait, he didn't





the real slim shady:
Strider119

[Darth Wong]

Well in all fairness, Obi Wan did rip Jangos neck into pieces and fling it off the planet all before Jango was able to fire one blaster shot

Since he was trying to capture him alive, this would have been rather stupid, wouldn't it? Not to mention the Jedi Order's general weakness at the time, and the irrefutable fact that Yoda DID levitate multi-ton objects, but I can see that honest debating is not your M.O.

[KK]

What exactly is the strength argument, anyway?

No, my argument is that Yoda would beat him because his TK is at least as powerful as Spiderman's entire body. In case you didn't notice, I will repeat myself: Marvel Universe quantifies Spidey's strength at 15 tons total lift.

My point was that 15 tons is his benchpress, and not the total strength of his body, unlike what AdmiralKanos said in the above quote.

Then you came back with an argument about how my evidence didn't require more than a 15 ton benchpress since people can deadlift a good deal more than they can bench.


Am I correct in assuming that we both believe Spidey can benchpress roughly 15 tons, but 15 tons isn't the full limit of his body's strength?

[Darth_Shinji]

While genuily considered class 10, Spidey has had many examples of above class strenght, like holding up a tank.

[Darth Wong]

My point was that 15 tons is his benchpress, and not the total strength of his body, unlike what AdmiralKanos said in the above quote.

Nitpick. The point remains that if I can apply Spiderman's entire overhead press strength to his throat, he's going down.

Then you came back with an argument about how my evidence didn't require more than a 15 ton benchpress since people can deadlift a good deal more than they can bench.

Which is a fact.

Am I correct in assuming that we both believe Spidey can benchpress roughly 15 tons, but 15 tons isn't the full limit of his body's strength?

Benchpress, overhead press, and deadlift are all different strength characteristics. Your deadlift is your biggest lift by far, because you can apply all of your muscles in the most efficient manner possible. How does this change anything?

Are you seriously arguing that if I applied 100 lbs to a small area in your throat (your own overhead press, assuming you are of average strength) that it woudn't kill you? Oh no, I can't apply your full deadlift to your larynx; just your press! Does the word "nitpick" mean anything to you? Or is your repertoire of debating techniques solely composed of fallacies?

[Vympel]

My point was that 15 tons is his benchpress, and not the total strength of his body, unlike what AdmiralKanos said in the above quote.

Darth Wong= Admiral Kanos.

You know that right?

[Strider119]

Since he was trying to capture him alive, this would have been rather stupid, wouldn't it? Not to mention the Jedi Order's general weakness at the time, and the irrefutable fact that Yoda DID levitate multi-ton objects, but I can see that honest debating is not your M.O.

Well all this talk about Light side guys killing their opponents with force chokes and whatnot, I thought it would be more common pracite

but yet the big claim to fame for the choke is Vader (who is a teeny bit off from a Light Side jedi) and Luke (who was being torn between Light and Dark side at the time)

I didnt see Obiwan or Anakin or Yoda choking anyone ever. Even when Anakin and Obi were facing execution at the hands of those beasts

AND yes!!! you understand that Yoda used his powers defensively to move objects away from him!!! I am so happy!!! You finnaly understand the post i put up 2 pages ago!

I acknowledge that Yoda moved those objects. He moved the rocks from the ceiling, the Generator things on the wall, and an x-wing, and he did it all while concentrating very hard. He let Dooku escape because he was concentrating so intently on not letting that large wall unit thing fall on Obi Wan and Anakin. So while he takes that moment to concentrate on spidey, who is to say that Spiderman dosen't move in with his heightened speed and hit yoda? Or who is to say that he can squeeze harder than Spiderman can withstand? Or who is to say that a Light Side Jedi would even choke someone? certianly not me.


but still, Light Side Jedi are defensive prone, that is my point. Alot of their feats are done defensively while Dark Side feats are agressive and offensive. I don't think a true light side jedi will force choke an opponent right out of the gates or at all for that matter. Why didnt Obi Wan choke Jango into submission and not kill him? He could have just rendered him unconsious ... or the beast that were trying to kill him in teh execution arena, he could have choked them to death



and on a side note let me address something else. there is alot of name calling and personal attacks thrown into alot of the posts here. Now while I try and keep my arguments civil, some people like to resort to the logical fallacy of "appealing to ridicule". Let me just state that that is one of the most common fallacies in logic and does nothing but weaken your argument, so leave the "asshole" and "liar" and "idiot" commnets at the door and stick to the debate. There is no need to be disrespectful to people who have different opinions than your own.






wiggel puppy:
Strider119

[KK]

I was contending a point made that 15 tons was the strength limit for Spider-Man's entire body, as AdmiralKanos had argued. The very first thing I said was that 15 tons was his benchpress.


I see no reason to believe force chokes are 15 tons of force. They were used to choke random human level durability characters.

[KK]

My point was that 15 tons is his benchpress, and not the total strength of his body, unlike what AdmiralKanos said in the above quote.

Darth Wong= Admiral Kanos.

You know that right?

Didn't know that.

It's hard to tell when he uses one name to say Spidey maxes out at 15 tons for his full body while using the other name to say 15 tons is just his benchpress.