Thoughts on Order of the Phoenix *Spoilers*

[Steven Snyder]

I finished this thing yesterday, though a long book it was a pretty quick read.

It seems that the prophecy theory is the correct one, and Rowling has left little to imagination on the events surrounding Harry's and Voldemort's first meeting.

The first real question that came across my head is...where the hell is Wormtail? The only time I see him mentioned is in the past, perhaps Voldemort doesn't deem him worthy of helping him right now.

Rowlings also introduced a few new characters, most interesting to me is Luna. Of all the characters, she is the one that has a few critical things in common with Harry, and in the end it is her talking to him that actually makes him feel better. I think she is being setup as his new love interest.

Hello Cho, welcome to dumpville...population you. Maybe your whiny-ass sell-out friend can stop by and visit sometime.

Neville, this kid is starting to surprise me, but I had a feeling it was a confidence thing all along. Knowing what magic did to his parents probably made him quite frightful of it. That scene with his mother was quite disturbing. Is it just me or is his main problem now that he can't talk very well?

Enough random musing for now...

[Crown]

I finished this thing yesterday, though a long book it was a pretty quick read.

It seems that the prophecy theory is the correct one, and Rowling has left little to imagination on the events surrounding Harry's and Voldemort's first meeting.

I disagree. While in essence you are right in that she did follow the usual formula in fantasy - that being destiny; she did add a unique twist to it. Harry was chosen by Voldemort himself, although be it unwitingly, to be his rival. Remember that Dumbledore said that it could have been either Harry or Neville, that the prophecy was refering to. I found this rather telling. Harry wasn't born special, he was made special when Voldemort marked him as his nemisis, and transfered some of his powers to Harry.

The first real question that came across my head is...where the hell is Wormtail? The only time I see him mentioned is in the past, perhaps Voldemort doesn't deem him worthy of helping him right now.

You know I had the exact same thought, he will clearly play an integral role, as Dumbledore told him that Wormtail will be bound to Harry on the account he saved Wormtail's life, so I look forward to the concluding two books.

Rowlings also introduced a few new characters, most interesting to me is Luna. Of all the characters, she is the one that has a few critical things in common with Harry, and in the end it is her talking to him that actually makes him feel better. I think she is being setup as his new love interest.

Oh I don't know, I think she was integral in helping Harry understand a few things, and a plot device. However Rowling has suprised me before.

Hello Cho, welcome to dumpville...population you. Maybe your whiny-ass sell-out friend can stop by and visit sometime.

Well she is still a member of DA, so I am sure that we will be seeing more of her.

Neville, this kid is starting to surprise me, but I had a feeling it was a confidence thing all along. Knowing what magic did to his parents probably made him quite frightful of it. That scene with his mother was quite disturbing. Is it just me or is his main problem now that he can't talk very well?

That was cured at the end, remember he had his face kicked in. I think Sirius' killer is going to meet Neville in a dark alley, and he will fullfil his own destiny.

Enough random musing for now...

Well here are a few of mine;

1. Snape. What was he up to during the summer? Has he returned to Voldemort? Has he convinced him that he is still loyal? Or is he a marked man?
2. Why did Dumbledore's eyes 'flash in victory' at the end of Goblet of Fire when Harry told him that Voldemort used Harry's blood - his mother's blood - to bring himself back alive? If Harry's protection lies with the Dursley's because of Lily's sacrifice, and because the same blood flows through Petunia's veins, then wouldn't Voldemort be able to circumvent that particular barrier now? More importantly WHY DID DUMBLEDORE'S EYES FLASH IN VICTORY?
3. Percy. Is he truly that ambitious? Why wasn't he in Slytherin then? What's going to happen now with him, will he feel so much remorse over his actions, that he will seek to redeem himself by going after a Death Eater or Voldemort himself? Will he be the next casualty?
4. Malfoy. Will the Ministry now seize all their wealth? Will Draco now be the thing he detests most, poor?
5. Why was Dumbledore perfectly willing to alter a student's memory and not Fudge's? You know a lot of this mess would have been avoided, if Dumbledore just mind-fucked the pussy and got it over a done with.
6. Is Harry going to continue with DA? Is he going to learn some really cool spells, like the ones that Dumbledore was using with his duel with Voldemort? When is Harry going to use another 'illegal curse', and why?

Well that's all I can think of right now. There are more I am sure, but I like the way she leaves threads, and then picks them up later in other books. Bravo Ms Rowling!

[Howedar]

Dumbledore is a Goa'uld. Duh.

[BenRG]

Well here are a few of mine...

And here are my thoughts:

Snape ~ You are probably right that he is currently under cover with the Death Eaters. He has a small role in the book, but it is pretty clear that the bad blood between him and James Potter will always limit his usefulness to the Order of the Pheonix. Indeed, from Dumbledore's exposition, I wonder if he has eliminated himself from any important missions due to his failure to protect Harry from Voldemort's subconscious influence.

Harry's blood ~ I think that Dumbledore realised that Voldie and Harry are now bound on a fundamental level, more weight to the prophecy. Worst comes to worst, it is likely that the overlap between Harry and his nemesis could possibly be used as a weapon: Hurt one, hurt the other.

Percy ~ He always struck me as basically a very shallow personality, obsessed with making a success of himself. However, Slytherin is only interested in those with the skill to make that ambition work. Percy is so weak that he will never be more than a functionary or a flunky. Expect him to come back to his mother and father on his hands and knees, begging forgiveness, early in Book 6.

The Malfoy Clan ~ I think that Draco is going to have to be sattisfied with a lot less from now on, yes. What is more, he and his mother will probably be forced to publicly denounce Lucius, if they want to stay out of Azkaban themselves. While it is easy to lie in such a situation, the public humilliation might make Draco a more humble and bitter person.

Fudge ~ Dumbledore has his own scale of priorities and ethics. I think that he needed Fudge's wholehearted and freely-given support. While you can re-write people's memories or control their conscious thought processes with HP magic, it also reduces the person's reaction times and screws with their personalities. They tend to raise suspicion a lot because of this.

DA ~ I strongly suspect that we will see the core group (Harry, Ron, Hermione, Neville, Ginny and Luna) getting a lot of extra-curricular training to turn them into Dumbledore's personal magical Delta Force. He means to win this war, and I don't think he cares overmuch about how he goes about it (c.f. the quote about "what do I care of the fate of innumerable faceless beings in the mists of the future?").

This brings me onto my own thoughts: The series is getting more and more 'shades of grey'. Book 2 revealed that Tom (Voldemort) is as much a victim as anyone else, driven by internal demons. Now we see that a lot of the supposed 'good guys' are anything but. James Potter was a bully. Sirius Black's family are in with the Dark Side and Sirius himself was the author of his own downfall because of his racist attitudes towards Kreature. Dumbledore has shown that he is capable of immence self-deception and that this has blinded him to several real threats facing Harry.

Dumbledore's mea culpa is interesting on several fronts. It shows that he has been cynically manipulating Harry to create the ideal weapon to use against Voldemort. You can argue that he had no choice, and I certainly agree that he now regrets that decision, but it might be too late for that. Harry has gone a long way down the Dark Path.

You see a lot of steel in Dumbledore in this book. His comments to Fudge were particularly chilling, telling the Minister that he can spare half an hour for him later on, but he will have to wait his turn. His speed and efficiency against Voldemort in the Department of Mystries finally demonstrates what a master-level wizard is capable of, as well as why his former apprentice is so afraid of him.

On that subject, does anyone want to see Dumbledore quote Yoda at Voldemort? Deflects a curse with a gesture, shakes his head, sighs sadly and says: "You still have so much to learn, my young apprentice..."

I also shudder to think what the centaurs did to Uxbridge.

I do think that a girl may have a critical role to play. If Harry is to be anchoed to the Good Side, he needs something to promote positive emotions (Dumbledore seemed to think that power based on positive feelings is Voldemort's weak-point). Having a girlfriend could be critical for Harry gaining sufficient power, balance and will to defeat Voldemort.

There are three obvious candidates:

1. Hermione remains top (despite my personal preference for Ginny). There have now been several occasions when she and Harry double-teamed against a threat when no one else was able or willing to do so.
2. Ginny's sudden promotion to the senior team is another point in her favour, on top of the life-saving bond and the pre-teen crush. JKR does seem to be indicating that there is some kind of joint destiny between the two characters.
3. Luna is a fascinating character, and is similar to Harry in many ways. However, she is a late-comer, like Cho. While she may have a role to play, it seems more as Harry's instructor in the weirder arts and the use of his more unique abilities.

[Steven Snyder]

I finished this thing yesterday, though a long book it was a pretty quick read.

It seems that the prophecy theory is the correct one, and Rowling has left little to imagination on the events surrounding Harry's and Voldemort's first meeting.

I disagree. While in essence you are right in that she did follow the usual formula in fantasy - that being destiny; she did add a unique twist to it. Harry was chosen by Voldemort himself, although be it unwitingly, to be his rival. Remember that Dumbledore said that it could have been either Harry or Neville, that the prophecy was refering to. I found this rather telling. Harry wasn't born special, he was made special when Voldemort marked him as his nemisis, and transfered some of his powers to Harry.

You know, you are right about that. It is a neat twist and I was suprised by it. The irony is that had Voldemort chosen to do nothing, he wouldn't have created this enemy.

That was cured at the end, remember he had his face kicked in. I think Sirius' killer is going to meet Neville in a dark alley, and he will fullfil his own destiny.

No I didn't catch the part where he was kicked in the face, I was really tired at that point and I probably missed that little part. I wondered why all of the sudden he couldn't speak properly...but I just attributed to a nevillism

Snape. What was he up to during the summer? Has he returned to Voldemort? Has he convinced him that he is still loyal? Or is he a marked man?

It has been alluded that he is working with Voldemort again, the danger he is in he mentions to the others. I think he is working as a double-agent, pretending to be with Voldemort but still retaining loyalty to the Order.

WHY DID DUMBLEDORE'S EYES FLASH IN VICTORY?

That was actually brought up, it wasn't that he used Harry's blood, it is that Harry escaped. Voldemort's plan required that there be no witnesses to the event that would tell anyone he was on the way back. The dark lord intended on coming back slowly and quietly, Harry's escape compromised his strategy. Dumbledore realized that and then understood how he could use it against him.

Percy. Is he truly that ambitious? Why wasn't he in Slytherin then? What's going to happen now with him

I think he was just so full of himself that he felt his family was beneath him and errant. I have a feeling that the Weasley's aren't going to be too eager to bring him back into the fold.

Malfoy. Will the Ministry now seize all their wealth? Will Draco now be the thing he detests most, poor?

This is a good question, though I doubt he will be poor, I think he has become much more dangerous. Though I think he fears Harry, the kid has survived an encounter with Voldemort 5 times, and has defeated him twice.

Harry's DA squad have also made their presence known to him, I wouldn't doubt if he begins training some Slytherins in the dark arts...

When is Harry going to use another 'illegal curse', and why?

I wonder if there will be any ramifications to that curse...Crucio is an unforgivable curse right?

[Dahak]

I was quite surprised that Harry used an unforgiveable curse, though it seem to fit with his changed personality in the book.

[Steven Snyder]

Another though...

What is the Order supposed to do with the Death Eaters they rounded up? The Dementors in Azkaban have already revolted, so I don't see that putting them there would do any good. I haven't heard about any other prison where they could be held...

If it were me I would simply execute them and close that little liability right now. But I have a feeling that they won't take that route...

[Ghost Rider]

Maybe Perm memory loss?

[Batman]

Maybe Perm memory loss?

Has that ever worked though? Seems to be every time somebody loses his memory he eventually in on the path to gaining it back (Lockheart, Bode, and the last was done on purpose).

NTM we need Bellatrix Lestrange around for the final showdown with Neville (which, incidentally, I would have expected during the big battle at the end).

As for Harry using an unforgivable curse, while the lack of official consquences may be explained away since there were no witnesses to that part of the battle-except for Bellatrix, and she can safely assumed to tell anything to get Harry in trouble, IMHO Harry himself is strangely untroubled about it. The thought that he may well wind up a 'murderer' it greatly troubling him, but unless I missed something the Crucio doesn't even get mentioned, not even some kind of after-the-fact 't was OK because' rationalization.

[BenRG]

As for Harry using an unforgivable curse, while the lack of official consquences may be explained away since there were no witnesses to that part of the battle-except for Bellatrix, and she can safely assumed to tell anything to get Harry in trouble, IMHO Harry himself is strangely untroubled about it. The thought that he may well wind up a 'murderer' it greatly troubling him, but unless I missed something the Crucio doesn't even get mentioned, not even some kind of after-the-fact 't was OK because' rationalization.

I think that a lack of consequences and a lack of rationalisation was to demonstrate how far down the dark path Harry was at that moment. He was so angry that using an Unforgivable didn't really matter to him. He won't even worry about it, because the woman was only a Death Eater.

Killing is different from causing pain in revenge for pain caused. Remember that Harry is a pretty screwed-up person because of all the abuse and trauma he has suffered in his life to date. He might not mind hurting someone, even if killing them is morally repugnant to him.

[Batman]

As for Harry using an unforgivable curse, while the lack of official consquences may be explained away since there were no witnesses to that part of the battle-except for Bellatrix, and she can safely assumed to tell anything to get Harry in trouble, IMHO Harry himself is strangely untroubled about it. The thought that he may well wind up a 'murderer' it greatly troubling him, but unless I missed something the Crucio doesn't even get mentioned, not even some kind of after-the-fact 't was OK because' rationalization.

I think that a lack of consequences and a lack of rationalisation was to demonstrate how far down the dark path Harry was at that moment. He was so angry that using an Unforgivable didn't really matter to him. He won't even worry about it, because the woman was only a Death Eater.

When he's actually doing it, absolutely. He was positively furious at that time, and I can't really say I blame him. But his total lack of reaction LATER seemed rather OOC.

Killing is different from causing pain in revenge for pain caused. Remember that Harry is a pretty screwed-up person because of all the abuse and trauma he has suffered in his life to date. He might not mind hurting someone, even if killing them is morally repugnant to him.

I dunno. It seemed positively un-Harry to me especially since apparently, due to the spell not working all that well ('You need to mean it-righteous anger won't hurt me for long'), it WAS.
Whereas Harry has every reason in the book (and then some) to kill Voldemort, and never seemed dismayed by the prospect in the earlier books (though I'll admit my memory is hazy on this), the prospect of becoming a 'murderer' still frightens him.

While we're at it, Harry seemed rather un-Harryish through some of that book. The 'I'm better than you'-stuff when he got to the Order HQ seemed rather OOC (though I'll admit it's been a while since I was a teenager so that mood swing may be totally believable), and the bit about scurvy-grass, lovage and sneezewort prior to the Room Of Requirement discovery had me half-convinced somebody was tempering with Harry's temper...(no pun intended)

[Agent Fisher]

you all have very good points. I noticed that there are IMO many connections between Order of Pheonix and Episode 2. However one of the most memorable scenes is when Fred and George leave Hogwarts.

[Macross]

you all have very good points. I noticed that there are IMO many connections between Order of Pheonix and Episode 2. However one of the most memorable scenes is when Fred and George leave Hogwarts.

Yeah, that was great. I love how the school went straight to hell right afterward. I also liked Flitwicks little moument to them.

...

As for Luna, I liked her too, but I dont she is just a plot device. If she had been, I dont think she would have been so involved near the end. I also think she is being set us a possible love interest, possibly for Harry, Ron or even Neville!

Speaking of Neville, im glad to see that he is coming into his own. He showed a lot of bravery at the end with the death eaters. I also get the impression that he will play a big part in Voldemorts downfall.

I also liked the DA, and im glad to see Harry and group interacting more and becoming closer with other students. I can see the DA sticking around for a long time and can see them become the second generation of the Order of the Pheonix.

[generator_g1]

I also liked the DA, and im glad to see Harry and group interacting more and becoming closer with other students. I can see the DA sticking around for a long time and can see them become the second generation of the Order of the Pheonix.

Yep. It does seem that way.

Percy was such an asshole in that book. He was perfectly willing to throw away his family and friends just so he can advance in the Ministry. Ron was right in saying in the 4th book that Percy can do a Crouch...

[Edi]

Bought the book on Sunday afternoon, finished it about 24 hours later. Can't say I'm really impressed, actually. Lots of stuff happens, but a lot more of the book is basically rehashing the events of the first four, and many sections suffer from abysmal bloat. The book could easily have been at least 50 pages shorter without any loss of suspense, and it could quite possibly have been better had that been the case. I was especially annoyed with how the Umbridge angle was dragged out and stripped to the bone and then some. I think every reader got the point about what she was like after about one third of the stuff she pulled.

To respond to some points:

[Well here are a few of mine;

1. Snape. What was he up to during the summer? Has he returned to Voldemort? Has he convinced him that he is still loyal? Or is he a marked man?
2. Why did Dumbledore's eyes 'flash in victory' at the end of Goblet of Fire when Harry told him that Voldemort used Harry's blood - his mother's blood - to bring himself back alive? If Harry's protection lies with the Dursley's because of Lily's sacrifice, and because the same blood flows through Petunia's veins, then wouldn't Voldemort be able to circumvent that particular barrier now? More importantly WHY DID DUMBLEDORE'S EYES FLASH IN VICTORY?
3. Percy. Is he truly that ambitious? Why wasn't he in Slytherin then? What's going to happen now with him, will he feel so much remorse over his actions, that he will seek to redeem himself by going after a Death Eater or Voldemort himself? Will he be the next casualty?
4. Malfoy. Will the Ministry now seize all their wealth? Will Draco now be the thing he detests most, poor?

Snape: He's still useful to Dumbledore, though, as pointed out, limited by his hatred of Harry's dad. Interesting how he has now become what he hated most, a bully who doesn't even pretend to be anything else, while James Potter apparently grew up and matured beyond such pettiness at some point. I don't think snape would really join Voldemort again. While unpleasant and nasty, he does not seem to be of the same mold as the Lestranges, Lucius Malfoy, Dolohov or the other inner circle Death Eaters (Am I the only one who's annoyed by the stupidity of this name? Death Bringers or something like that would have been a lot better...)
Dumbledore and Harry's blood: Blood magic is, in most legends and myths I've read, seen to be one of the most powerful types of magic there is, and Rowling certainly has hinted at this being true in her world as well. In Book 4 Voldemort explicitly states he could have used the blood of any wizard, but he wanted Harry's because that would give him more power. The problem here being for him, now that Harry escaped, he is entirely reliant on his most important enemy (if we follow the prophecy anyway) for his power. This can't be a good thing for him. The bond between him and Harry was made only that much stronger now that they share the same blood which gave rise to it in the first place. In effect, he probably sealed his own doom when he did that.
Percy: He's too much of an incompetent blinded by his own arrogance and inflated sense of his own importance to have ever made it in Slytherin. It'd have been a surprise that any of the Weasleys would ever have ended up there, because they were raised with the kind of values that are the antithesis of what Slytherin represents. The Percy who went to Hogwarts in his first year was probably a lot different from the one we saw emerge from there. He got warped by ambition later. But yes, he really is shallow, and will probably suffer quite a bit of consequences for his idiocy. I don't see that he's going to receive a very warm welcome from his family (apart from his mom, that is) if and when he crawls back.
The Malfoys: I was wondering those same things. They'll be in for a lot of grief, I would think, though Draco is not likely to end up in Azkaban even if his mother does. He's still the same snivelling coward he was in Book 1, and there has been no improvement that I've noticed. I still snicker over Lucius Malfoy's comment about Draco to the Dark Arts dealer down Knockturn Lane in Book 2...

I also think we haven't quite seen the end of Harry's relationship with Cho. Seems more like it's on hold for the time being. Both are badly messed up by what happened to them, but it'd be a wonder if something doesn't happen later. I could be wrong, though, and Ginny Weasley definitely does more than her fair share to shuffle the deck. Luna Lovegood seemed more like a plot device and a matchup for Neville than anything else to me, but she will certainly be around later, like the rest of the DA as was pointed out. She's really the only new character that way, everyone else has been mentioned sometime in the earlier books (except Cho's treacherous friend).

It was easy to figure out about the time Harry and the others left for Hogwarts that Sirius is the most likely character to bite the dust in this one, Rowling seemed to treat him far too negligently, though she almost fooled me with Arthur Weasley. It's true that he fell down due in some part to his own mistakes, like his mistreatment of Kreacher (which seems somewhat strange in light of what he said to Ron regarding Mr Crouch's treatment of Winky in Book 4, but can probably be attributed to his hatred of his family), but mostly due to his underestimating of Bellatrix. Not that the spell she used would have killed him in and of itself, it was a typical Stupefication one from the description, it was that he fell through the portal to the realm of the dead. If there was one single thing that raised my curiosity in this book more than anything else, it was that artefact in the Department of Mysteries.

But despite everything, overall I found HP and the Order of the Phoenix to be, compared to the previous books, quite disappointing. It has been by far the worst of the lot, because of the bloat and excessive rehashing of past events, and too many characters acted, I think, quite OOC when you compare them to what they have done in the past. It wasn't a bad book at all, but IMO it wasn't nearly up to the standard Rowling has set previously. I hope Book 6 is better. Though it could be that Book 5 will look better in retrospect after Book 6 comes out, if there are enough of the hidden plot hooks and references in there like there were in the first four.

Edi

[Macross]

But despite everything, overall I found HP and the Order of the Phoenix to be, compared to the previous books, quite disappointing. It has been by far the worst of the lot, because of the bloat and excessive rehashing of past events, and too many characters acted, I think, quite OOC when you compare them to what they have done in the past. It wasn't a bad book at all, but IMO it wasn't nearly up to the standard Rowling has set previously. I hope Book 6 is better. Though it could be that Book 5 will look better in retrospect after Book 6 comes out, if there are enough of the hidden plot hooks and references in there like there were in the first four.

Well try to look at it in a differant light. Consider it as a bridge between two parts of the story. The first four books were about the return of the Dark Lord, and the last two should be about the power struggle and aftermath of his return. I think that this book contained alot of rehashing so that it could tie the first four books together while setting up the events for future books. Before the Dark Lords return was a big secret, but now everyone knows so their should be little need to rehash previous events in any great detail, other then the obligatory reminder and exposition.

Despite its flaws, I still enjoyed the book, and I cant wait for the next one to come out (whenever that will be...)

[Batman]

The book could easily have been at least 50 pages shorter without any loss of suspense, and it could quite possibly have been better had that been the case. I was especially annoyed with how the Umbridge angle was dragged out and stripped to the bone and then some. I think every reader got the point about what she was like after about one third of the stuff she pulled.

That's funny, I personally felt the book should have been somewhat longer. The ending had a somewhat rushed feel to it. I would have liked a lot of stuff cleared up at the end-the Fate of the Death Eaters (and yes, now you point it out it IS a stupid name), Harry's use of an Unforgivable Curse, and why Umbridge was so much more fanatical about denying Voldemorts return than Crouch was. The Denial itself and Crouch trying to discredit Harry and Dumbledore are consistent with his behaviour at the end of 'Goblet of Fire', but sending Dementors after Harry and using the Cruciatus Curse in questioning?
And I personally loved to loathe that bitch. Every page of it.

I also think we haven't quite seen the end of Harry's relationship with Cho. Seems more like it's on hold for the time being. Both are badly messed up by what happened to them, but it'd be a wonder if something doesn't happen later. I could be wrong, though, and Ginny Weasley definitely does more than her fair share to shuffle the deck.

Personally, I don't see the Harry/Cho thing going anywhere. Their relationship started out positively desastrously, and both might feel more comfortable with someone not involved in the Cedric issue.
That, and I'm rooting for Ginny anyway

[Edi]

That's funny, I personally felt the book should have been somewhat longer. The ending had a somewhat rushed feel to it.

Yes, it did. There could have been more stuff at the end, but there was plenty of room to use the scalpel earlier. And some of the sections just felt unnecessarily prolonged to me. That's including the extended duel with Voldemort's followers. It felt somehow repetitive.

One thing I forgot to bitch about was that if those Dark Wizards were as dangerous as they were made out to be, Harry was the only kid who should have gotten out of the Department of Mysteries alive. The character shielding in those sections was just so fucking unbelievable it left a bad taste in my mouth.

I would have liked a lot of stuff cleared up at the end-the Fate of the Death Eaters (and yes, now you point it out it IS a stupid name),

That'll be covered in the beginning of Book 6, I would assume.

Harry's use of an Unforgivable Curse,

Bellatrix Lestrange is the only one who knows about it, so it didn't need to come up. It's not something Harry would admit to Dumbledore or his friends, though he should have reflected somewhat about it. OOC that he didn't...

and why Umbridge was so much more fanatical about denying Voldemorts return than Crouch was. The Denial itself and Crouch trying to discredit Harry and Dumbledore are consistent with his behaviour at the end of 'Goblet of Fire', but sending Dementors after Harry and using the Cruciatus Curse in questioning?

I wondered the same. And I personally loved to loathe that bitch. Every page of it.

I got an overdose. There's such a thing as too much. It'd not have been as bad if she'd really gotten a deservingly gruesome comeuppance.

Personally, I don't see the Harry/Cho thing going anywhere. Their relationship started out positively desastrously, and both might feel more comfortable with someone not involved in the Cedric issue.
That, and I'm rooting for Ginny anyway

It did, at that, but that doesn't mean anything in the long run. It depends on whether something happens that would bind them tighter together, and there's plenty of room for that. Cedric was a divisive factor, and it was obvious about halfway through that he was going to have to die in book 4, but after they both deal with it, who knows? Well, whatever happens will happen, but that's my take on it anyway.

Edi

[Edi]

Sorry, messed the quoting in the previous post. Arrghh! Note to self: Use Preview button...

If a mod sees the mistake, could they fix it, please?

Edi

[Batman]

One thing I forgot to bitch about was that if those Dark Wizards were as dangerous as they were made out to be, Harry was the only kid who should have gotten out of the Department of Mysteries alive. The character shielding in those sections was just so fucking unbelievable it left a bad taste in my mouth.

Well, one could argue that they were trying to take the prophecy intact so they couldn't go whole hog, but, yeah, having to go easy on the area effect spells shouldn't mean they can't take out a couple of kids.
I realize murdering the lot wasn't exactly possible but that was pretty akward.

I would have liked a lot of stuff cleared up at the end-the Fate of the Death Eaters (and yes, now you point it out it IS a stupid name),

That'll be covered in the beginning of Book 6

Yeah, well, I wanna know NOW

Harry's use of an Unforgivable Curse,

Bellatrix Lestrange is the only one who knows about it, so it didn't need to come up. It's not something Harry would admit to Dumbledore or his friends, though he should have reflected somewhat about it. OOC that he didn't...

That's kinda what I meant. He's troubled he might have to kill Voldemort, who murdered his parents, tried repeatedly to murder him and his friends, and would slaughter mudbloods just on general principles, but using an Unforgivavle Curse doesn't bother him at all?

I wondered the same. And I personally loved to loathe that bitch. Every page of it.

I got an overdose. There's such a thing as too much. It'd not have been as bad if she'd really gotten a deservingly gruesome comeuppance.

Actually, I fully expected the centaurs to kill her when they went into the forest, and I rather thought Hermione did,too. My reaction when Hermione's intention became clear was kinda 'She's gonna do WHAT?' Oh well...

[FOG3]

Personally I came up with the rationalization that Harry and Voldemorts mental ink and Voldemort using Harry's blood had left a little cross personality polution. In other words some of Harry's personality now influences Voldemort and some of Voldemort's is present in Harry and that is why he seemed OOC. It does fit in with the part of the prophesy about "neither can live while the other survives." But that's just my opinion.

[Jetfire]

Personally I came up with the rationalization that Harry and Voldemorts mental ink and Voldemort using Harry's blood had left a little cross personality polution. In other words some of Harry's personality now influences Voldemort and some of Voldemort's is present in Harry and that is why he seemed OOC. It does fit in with the part of the prophesy about "neither can live while the other survives." But that's just my opinion.

I finished it last nite and it had left a wierd feeling in me; Harry seemed off in this book. Finally I concluded that there are at least 2 maybe even 3 things hitting him hard.

First, there was the apparant lack of trust everyone else, even his closest friends had for him over the summer, in that they weren't keeping him informed and thus they left him stewing in his own frustrations. (Granted it was under Dumbledor's orders but still, it was rough on Harry).

Then there is normal hormones; Harry's reaching adolescence with all that that brings with it, including Teenage rebellion.

And finally of course there's what you mentionned, a bit of cross pollination between Riddle and Potter thanks to their mood-connection and all of their other connections.

Oh and then there was the jealousy he surely felt when Hermione and Ron became Prefects (As soon as I read that, I knew exactly why Dumbledor didn't pick Harry to be a prefect), and the extremely stressful year through which he basically never really had a chance to stop and calm down, gather his thoguhts and stuff; his character seems much more in character.

(I wonder when it will hit him that he could've used Serius's mirror to contact Serius instead of the Floo powder though, not that he knew of the Mirror and what it did at the time)


Finally, about him using the Unforgivable curse; it may literally have slipped his mind for now, and/or he may have started feeling the guilt of it off page. Hopefully it will be a plot point which will be addressed in the next few books, even if in passing. There hadn't been many pages left in the book by the time that happened, so it may have had to be removed for the next book.

All in all, I liked it. Not as much as the earlier ones. (Goblet and Prisoner are my fav's at this time) but still a good read and a good continuation.

[Steven Snyder]

I keep thinking about how Neville has changed...

He was once an incompetent baffoon who could only be trusted as a gardener. He even referred to himself as someone who was nearly a squib.

His training in the Defense Against the Dark Arts by Harry has really changed him. His problem seemed to have been confidence, because once he got going in the duels he was a force to be reckoned with. Remember this was a kid who couldn't even master the simplest 1st year spells.

What really suprised me was his ferocity against the Death Eaters at the end of the book.

He squared off against them and did quite well for himself. He didn't panic, freeze, run, or otherwise shrink from his charge. He was kicked in the face, breaking his nose and possibly his jaw and he continued on despite his injuries. He couldn't even pronounce the spells properly, yet he kept trying, and when he finally realized they wouldn't work he used his wand as a spear and jabbed it into the eye of a death eater. Finally, when he was subdued and faced certain death, he told Harry not to give it the prophecy up, quite certain he would be killed if Harry didn't.

Though he may have had a rough start, this kid is starting to look like he is quite the lion.

[Macross]

I keep thinking about how Neville has changed...

He was once an incompetent baffoon who could only be trusted as a gardener. He even referred to himself as someone who was nearly a squib.

His training in the Defense Against the Dark Arts by Harry has really changed him. His problem seemed to have been confidence, because once he got going in the duels he was a force to be reckoned with. Remember this was a kid who couldn't even master the simplest 1st year spells.

What really suprised me was his ferocity against the Death Eaters at the end of the book.

He squared off against them and did quite well for himself. He didn't panic, freeze, run, or otherwise shrink from his charge. He was kicked in the face, breaking his nose and possibly his jaw and he continued on despite his injuries. He couldn't even pronounce the spells properly, yet he kept trying, and when he finally realized they wouldn't work he used his wand as a spear and jabbed it into the eye of a death eater. Finally, when he was subdued and faced certain death, he told Harry not to give it the prophecy up, quite certain he would be killed if Harry didn't.

Though he may have had a rough start, this kid is starting to look like he is quite the lion.

Next to Harry, Neville is probably the second student at Howarts who has suffered the most from Voldemort and the Death Eaters.

I guess hearing that the person who destroyed your parents escaping from prison would boost anyones resolve and determination. I said it before, I really think Neville is going to play a big part in Voldemorts downfall. He may even be the one who the prophecy was talking about! Because, in a way, he too has been marked by Voldemort, though its not physical like Harry's scar, but rather mentally and emotionally.

[Seele]

Ok, I haven't read any of the books at all, no time really, only seen the two movies, I've heard that a major character gets killed in this latest book. Since this is a spoiler thread and most of what is being talked here is really confusing me since alot happens the the books not yet made into movies, Who died and how? Please forgive my ignorence about the subject if someone did indeed bring it up in the thread. I just want to know who and who he was in the movies if he's already been introduced in the movies. Thanks.