Ethics of Hunting

[Death from the Sea]

*snip*
Blinds wouldn't bother me but setting out bait or timed feeders seems to be lazy and cheating. More like fishing. The stalk is the challenge, not luring them into a KZ. But then again, hving not done hunting before I may be wrong on that.
*snip*

basically most people who use blinds and such do so because of the time issue.(not having much more than a weekend to hunt here an there)
Also just because one sets up a blind, does not mean that the perosn hunts it every time. I will occassionally set up further down the creek and wait for them at a major deer trail croosing.

[Lagmonster]

I'm not a hunter, per se, but I approve of the sport.

You see, as an intelligent person, I realize that when people oppose hunting, bad things happen. A while back, Yellowstone had a problem with - deer, perhaps? Anyway, some Bambi-like creature. The herd needed culling because they were getting too numerous, but there were protests by the kind of people who thought the deer were too cute to shoot. So, the herds were left alone, and come winter, they horribly starved to death by the hundreds. So food isn't the only reason we have to hunt - in many cases we've driven off any predators to keep things in balance.

That said, I personally have worked with a shitload of animals. I've had to kill hundreds of insanely cute little mammals and then perform experiments on their innards later. I've had to get creatures you might see on a Disney special sick and watch them die. I've also seen a lot of people get VERY angry and upset and hurt. More than one technician has been caught 'adopting' lab animals because they bonded with them as with a pet.

I love eating meat. I have no problem boiling a lobster to death. I will beat any bug to death as quick as it flies into view. So you'd think I was okay with killing, huh?

Well, nah. I'm a wuss. I almost cried during the deer-hunting scene in the movie Powder. I think I anthropomorphize too much - I've seen animals mourn for their dead and get downright depressed (ever seen a suicidally depressed SHARK before?). I've seen terrified animals who've been wounded die scared and screaming. And I feel bad for them. I once found a dead mouse - don't know how it died. But as mice sometimes do it had been mid-transporting its young from one home to another. I knew that there was probably a nest of newborns off at one place, perhaps at another. And next to the corpse was this tiny little baby mouse, no bigger than my thumb. It was the middle of winter, in the city. The thing wasn't strong enough yet to walk. There was no way I was adopting the thing. I broke its neck. I felt AWFUL about it, but it was quick and painless and it was the most humane thing I could think of to do.

Quite the opposites of temperment and life, huh? It only really bugs me when I think about it too much. Too many cute movies with talking baby animals.

[Joe]

I've never hunted, but I do enjoy fishing, which is like hunting. So I have no problem with it.

[Saurencaerthai]

Well, I for one, do not hunt. I do not because first off, it conflicts with religious diatary laws. Second, chances of it being a quick painless death are very low from what I gathered, even with a gun. However, if I were in a survival situation, I would have no qualms about hunting.
What would I considder fair? Honestly, I would only feel that it would be a fair hunt if I built my weapons from scratch myself. That means making the bow, fletching the arrows, and all that good stuff.

[AdmiralKanos]

"Fair"? You've got to be kidding me. Hunting is not meant to be fair. If it was fair, they would call it "Mortal Kombat". The whole point of hunting is to give yourself a massive advantage and not give your prey any conceivable opportunity to hurt you. That's why it makes perfect sense if you like the taste of venison, but is of dubious value as "sport"; most sports are not so one-sided.

[Sea Skimmer]

"Fair"? You've got to be kidding me. Hunting is not meant to be fair. If it was fair, they would call it "Mortal Kombat". The whole point of hunting is to give yourself a massive advantage and not give your prey any conceivable opportunity to hurt you.

Maybe if you'd change your laws I could go hunt Polar bears. Right now it’s a 50,000 dollar fine to shoot one even in self defence, and they like to eat humans unlike most bears.

That's why it makes perfect sense if you like the taste of venison, but is of dubious value as "sport"; most sports are not so one-sided.

Sport perhaps not, at least with long rifles. However it is enjoyable which is all I really care about.
Most stuff which is supposedly to make things more fair is just to increase the recreational value, that’s why many people hunt with handguns and bows they force you to stalk the animal rather then gunning it down from across the field. Though as Sheppard has noted some are simply too stupid to run no matter what and you could kill them with bayonet.

[Yogi]

Hunting to get food: OK
Hunting to clear out overpopulated animals: No Problem
Hunting because you think its fun to shoot animals: I personally have a problem with that. If you like to kill things, join the Army and serve your country.

[Gil Hamilton]

Well, I went hunting once with my dad. Well, we didn't actually see any deer, unfortunately, but we had a fun time anyway. I'm in favor of hunting, because vension jerky is one of the greatest foods on the planet, plus there is a major deer problem around these parts.

I'm not in favor of hunting certain animals, like wolves, which is pointless and actually damaging to the ecosystem (wolves don't attack people, unless they are rabid as hell, but they sure do do a number on keeping the deer population in check).

But deer and the like? Nothing so delicious should escape our hunters bullets and arrows.

[His Divine Shadow]

Elk hunting here is pretty much required, someone has too keep their numbers down, it's simply a form of enviromental maintenance.
We had some PETA like numbnuts here who wanted to stop that and try and force-feed the elks birth controll medicine instead

[His Divine Shadow]

But deer and the like? Nothing so delicious should escape our hunters bullets and arrows.

Elk meat... *drools*

[DPDarkPrimus]

Reindeer pepperoni is damn tasty.

[His Divine Shadow]

3) Hunting for food is OK. Hunting for pleasure is a waste of resources.

Quite the opposite

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Well, I for one, do not hunt. I do not because first off, it conflicts with religious diatary laws.

Which are those, may I ask?

[His Divine Shadow]

The deer here are so stupid you can walk up to them and they won't run...

Maybe you just don't look very intimidating?

and they have lyme disease

Poor deer.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I'm not in favor of hunting certain animals, like wolves, which is pointless and actually damaging to the ecosystem (wolves don't attack people, unless they are rabid as hell, but they sure do do a number on keeping the deer population in check).

In some areas there is wolf overpopulation.

[Gil Hamilton]

In some areas there is wolf overpopulation.

I'm a little suprised, since as far as I know, most breeds of wolf in America were hunted to the point that their populations majorly declined to the point of possible extinction. There simply aren't that breeding packs left, and most of them are in Minnesota.

Where exactly is there a wolf problem? It's not like wolves attack people, they avoid humans like the plague. I grant you that you might get a desperate pack that will succumb to the allure of unattended trash cans and chew up a pet or two, but that's an annoyance compared to the property damage deer cause.

Here is the Fish and Wildlife estimates on the wolf population in America.
http://midwest.fws.gov/wolf/fnl-rule/grwo-nos.pdf
You can see they aren't doing so well.

[Sir Sirius]

"Fair"? You've got to be kidding me. Hunting is not meant to be fair. If it was fair, they would call it "Mortal Kombat". The whole point of hunting is to give yourself a massive advantage and not give your prey any conceivable opportunity to hurt you. That's why it makes perfect sense if you like the taste of venison, but is of dubious value as "sport"; most sports are not so one-sided.

The sport part of hunting is competing with other hunters (like who gets the biggest elk or for single shot kills Etc.), but mostly it's just about enjoying the hunt, well at least for me that is, and then of course the fact nothing tastes quite as good as venison steak from a deer you shot yourself (except perhaps Freshly-Salted Salmon from a salmon you caught your self).

[Zoink]

3) Hunting for food is OK. Hunting for pleasure is a waste of resources.

Quite the opposite

So hunting for food is bad, and hunting for pleasure increases the efficiency of resource use?

[Coyote]

Well, I for one, do not hunt. I do not because first off, it conflicts with religious diatary laws.

Which are those, may I ask?

There are Jewish dietary laws that state that an animal killed for food must be killed quickly and humanely, and that is where a schochat comes in: a professional Kosher butcher. Cut the big neck artery quickly and the animal basically dies instantly; there's a technique to it that must be trained.

Since it is difficult (but not impossible) to kill an animal immediately in a hunting situation, hunting is generally not a normal activity in Judaism. Although one of the most famous heroes of the ancient Hebrews was Nimrod the hunter....

And as for hunting being fair, I think even with rifles and the like it is still difficult. Many people I know who go hunting come back empty handed-- there is no guarantee you're going to get something. Also, the deer can smell you from a mile away and run through the forest like lightning... bullets don't always hit their mark.

[LadyTevar]

And as for hunting being fair, I think even with rifles and the like it is still difficult. Many people I know who go hunting come back empty handed-- there is no guarantee you're going to get something. Also, the deer can smell you from a mile away and run through the forest like lightning... bullets don't always hit their mark.

No.. sometimes they go right between the anters because the damn thing DUCKS.

And sometimes the deer is just invulernable Like when my dad shot at the biggest buck on the property.
Imagine if you will, a 60yr old man and a 300lbs+ 12point whitetail, only 100 yards apart on a fire road.
The buck is following a doe, nose down, broadside to the man. The man raises his rifle and fires, and the buck jerks his head up and looks at him. The man fires a second time, and the buck tilts his head as if to say "Oh, are you shooting at me?" The third time, the rifle jams, and the buck seems to shrug and walk off into the brush, head down to catch the doe's scent again.

[Death from the Sea]

3) Hunting for food is OK. Hunting for pleasure is a waste of resources.

Quite the opposite

So hunting for food is bad, and hunting for pleasure increases the efficiency of resource use?

no hunting for food is a waste of resources. meaning it costs much more to
1) buy a gun/bow ~ $500 (one time cost)
2) buy the bullets/arrows ~ $25
3) lease/buy the land to hunt on ~ $500 to several thounsand dollars
4) take off from work ~ possible lost wages (if no vacation time is left)
5) drive to and from the hunting area to your residence(possibly several hundreds of miles) ~ $150 per trip
6) pay the butcher to process the meat(granted you can do your self, but it still costs something to do that and it is a HUGE pain in the ass) ~ $80 to $150 per deer and it depends on what you want it processed as

total cost ~ $1255.00 to $755.00 for a single trip where you kill one deer, and you'd get maybe 85 pounds of meat out of the deal.

or you could go to the store and buy the meat at a much cheaper price.

Hunting for pleasure is a HUGE part of why hunters do hunt, and why I pay so much for my venison.

[His Divine Shadow]

3) Hunting for food is OK. Hunting for pleasure is a waste of resources.

Quite the opposite

So hunting for food is bad, and hunting for pleasure increases the efficiency of resource use?

Roll your little eyes elsewhere please, especially when you clearly don't have much knowledge on the subject, hunting is not a waste of resources, it stimulates the economy, as has been shown and the hunting process itself is known as taking care of the enviroment by keeping the numbers of local animals down, if we didn't hunt Elk, Rabbit and such here every year the enviroment couldn't take them and damages done to people and cars as collisions increase drastically would be a definite waste of resources.

[Coyote]

3) lease/buy the land to hunt on ~ $500 to several thounsand dollars

Where in the hell do you live?
Why would you need to BUY the land to hunt on? Are there no public lands? People here hunt on public lands or get permission from th elocal owners. Some folks can hunt practically from their back porch, but that is the outskirts of Boise...

[weemadando]

I "hunt" occassionally, but not for food, furs or anything like that. Generally I'll be doing it as part of a control program, ie culling possums, feral cats, stray dogs...

[The Duchess of Zeon]

2) buy the bullets/arrows ~ $25

If you need twenty-five dollars worth of bullets for a single hunting trip, then I agree, buy your meat in a store!