Scarlet-Spider vs Jedi

[Ghost Rider]

And the point being of further limiting a Jedi?

It acts as the same as the Yoda vs threads of limiting one party, because it implies that one has to rip a power out of a greater partyor the other party loses and essentially concedes the defeat.

[Crazedwraith]

And the point being of further limiting a Jedi?

It acts as the same as the Yoda vs threads of limiting one party, because it implies that one has to rip a power out of a greater partyor the other party loses and essentially concedes the defeat.

Well considering that ppl are limiting themselves to "oh the jedi would win they'd just force choke him" i thought it better to broaden peoples minds to other aspects of the fight.
Iam not conceed that a jedi willing to use force-choke would beat Ben just that this isn't what the debates supposed to be about.
If id wantered a discussionm on force-chokes id have doone a "SS vs Vader" thread or one saying "can spider-man resist force chokes?"

[KK]

And the point being of further limiting a Jedi?

You need to stop limiting Ben by not letting him use his AK-47.

[Ghost Rider]

And the point being of further limiting a Jedi?

You need to stop limiting Ben by not letting him use his AK-47.

Poor analogy.

Ben nor Spiderman have used a gun and honestly wouldn't matter a damn.

So stop trolling.

[KK]

Poor analogy.

Ben nor Spiderman have used a gun and honestly wouldn't matter a damn.

If irony were a kick in the nuts, I would never have children after that reply.

[Ghost Rider]

Are you going to make a point somewhere?

[KK]

Also note: From this point on, all Kaine and Spidercide feats are to be used as Scarlet Spider evidence.

[Ghost Rider]

Also note: From this point on, all Kaine and Spidercide feats are to be used as Scarlet Spider evidence.

That's a nice red herring.

[KK]

Is it irrelevant? No?

So shove your red herring up your ass.


Kaine has true precognition, and Spidercide is malleable. A force choke wouldn't work on a Spider-Man clone.

[Ghost Rider]

Yeah...whatever you makes you go to sleep at night.

Still sore in some way?

Because it's funny you applying rules to a debate you are not in control of.

[KK]

Because it's funny you applying rules to a debate you are not in control of.

If stock Jedi = most powerful Jedi = Sith then Spider-clone = Spider-clone = Spider-clone.


Plus more irony I see.

Poster: "No force chokes."
Ghost Rider: "He'll force choke!"
Ghost Rider: "Stop making up your own rules!"

[Ghost Rider]

Oh yes...because all Spider Clones are the same.

Nice leap of logic...because obviously nothing is changed in any of them despite their power changes and that the Jedi are taught along certain lines and are granted powers along that line in similar levels barring the extreme examples of a few Sith Lords.

And who said Force Choke is a Sith Only power?

Given Luke does it in canon says otherwise.

So you want to continue?

[Crazedwraith]

Yeah but just like its not in bens character to use a AK-47 its not in a JEDIs character to use force choke.
However.....

IVE ELIMINATED FOCE CHOKE FROM CONSIDERATION
........either start your own thread or drop it. Either way thers no place for it here

[FOG3]

I said it once and I'll say it again a person using a sword has a significant advantage over someon who is unnarmed. Stingers are not likely to work. Even if they're innate capabilities were even the sword welder, I'm assuming Jedi are competent swordsmen quite a save assumption, wins. Would someone backing the Scarlet Spider side please show me a way that he's supposed to win.

Lets see:
Stingers: deemed ineffective because a fully trained Jedi can take Full power stun blasts as if they were nothing.
Webbing: Noghri incident put holes in this.
Fists/strength: Irrelevent a sword or light saber is a elegant weapon refinded through the ages for one purpose, to be the optimum killing weapon. Strength isn't relevent and someone using fists against a sword is already in a loosing position.

[Crazedwraith]

i couldn't see how ben would win either. thats why i put in the "they fight to a stand still" option

Also Bne could launch at least three impact webbings at the same time some how a dont see how a jedi with only one saber could swat them all.
(unless they were in a straight line)

[KK]

Oh yes...because all Spider Clones are the same.

And all Jedi *are*?

Horseshit.

Nice leap of logic...because obviously nothing is changed in any of them despite their power changes and that the Jedi are taught along certain lines and are granted powers along that line in similar levels barring the extreme examples of a few Sith Lords.

And who said Force Choke is a Sith Only power?

Yoda.

LUKE: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?

YODA: You will know. When you are calm, at peace. Passive. A Jedi uses
the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

To repeat for the slower learners.

YODA: A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

One more time.

YODA: A Jedi uses the Force NEVER FOR ATTACK.

It couldn't have been more clear if Lucas wrote it on his dick and slapped you in the face with it.

Given Luke does it in canon says otherwise.

A Luke who hadn't had even 1/100 of the training of other Jedi, and even then at was almost all combat training.

A Luke who, let's face it, was less disciplined then those little kids Yoda was training in AotC.

A Luke who Yoda was uncertain about.

A Luke who was dealing with the revelation that Darth Vader was his father.

A Luke who was struggling with the light and dark sides.

A Luke who didn't fully understand the Force or the Jedi order.

A Luke who was symbolically wearing black, the color of the Sith.

I'll tell you again. Watch the movies again, this time without muting it and playing it in slow motion to check how many pixils are in a turbolaser explosion.

[Ghost Rider]

1. Yet the Jedi are trained along certain lines, I never seen Peter Parker have a single ability to the extent the other clones had...and considering he's had the powers for longer...I see nothing that would implicate Ben would either.

2. Strange Luke still does it RoTJ.

3. Strange...that you bring up irrelevant BS when it's shown in nice glorious color that he Force Chokes. So your wonderful subjective viewpoint means what again?

As for the Battle...unless Ben can achieve around 300+m/s for each of the Impact webbing balls the Jedi isn't even begun to really be hit by them. AoTC showed them able to achieve some astounding speed.

[KK]

Webbing: Noghri incident put holes in this.

Sorry, but no it didn't.

The webbing is a much more effective weapon, and frankly if Ben were to spraw a wide stream of it, the Jedi would be screwed.

He can and has sprayed it so it fires in a spread and fills and entire alley. Puls there's impact webbing which fires in a ball and then expands when it hits a target.

Fists/strength: Irrelevent a sword or light saber is a elegant weapon refinded through the ages for one purpose, to be the optimum killing weapon. Strength isn't relevent and someone using fists against a sword is already in a loosing position.

Spider-Man has beaten people with swords before. Numerous times.

If the Noghri incident makes webbing a non-factor, then the many times Spider-Man has bested sword-welders makes the lightsaber a non-factor as well.

He's fast enough to dodge the saber, and the spider-sense helps a great deal with that. He could use webing to yank the thing out of the Jedi's hand if he absolutely needed to.

[KK]

1. Yet the Jedi are trained along certain lines, I never seen Peter Parker have a single ability to the extent the other clones had...and considering he's had the powers for longer...I see nothing that would implicate Ben would either.

Aren't you the Star Wars fanatic here? Why are midichlorians entirely left out of the equation?

Not all Jedis are created equal.

You have been using the most powerful Jedi ever who ALSO has power from the dark side to define the power of the average Jedi.

Vader is NOT NOT NOT the average Jedi. The average Jedi can be much easier defined by taking a look at how well the average Jedi did in the battle at the end of AotC.

2. Strange Luke still does it RoTJ.

Which I've already explained in great detail.

3. Strange...that you bring up irrelevant BS when it's shown in nice glorious color that he Force Chokes. So your wonderful subjective viewpoint means what again?

You not liking it doesn't make it ittelevant.

It is HIGHLY relevant that Luke was confused about the nature of the Force. It is HIGHLY relevant that he's not as disciplined as any other Jedi. It is HIGHLY relevant that he was still struggling to choose between the light and dark side. It is HIGHLY relevant that Yoda was not all that amazingly confident in him. It is HIGHLY relevant that he wasn't even close to being trained a fraction as much as the average Jedi. It is HIGHLY relevant that he had just learned Vader was hsi father. And it is minorly relevant that he was symbolically wearing black.

As for the Battle...unless Ben can achieve around 300+m/s for each of the Impact webbing balls the Jedi isn't even begun to really be hit by them. AoTC showed them able to achieve some astounding speed.

60MPH is hardly astounding. And he doesn't need to use impact webbing, either. He could use a wide-angle spray which couldn't be dodged.

[KK]

And before you try to write AotC off as the Jedi being weakened, go rewatch the movie. Their vision was clouded by the dark side. They said nothing about their physical abilities being hampered.

[Ghost Rider]

I see.

So you can't refute that Jedi are trained in certain ways and all but the most exceptional have similar powers.

You deny the objective evidence of RoTJ

You also make no calcs toward the speed of the blaster in AoTC...by giving out the outright wrong 60 MPH.

Watch it again...at lowest with Jango at less then 10 m...the bolt go for 1-2 frames...and always stay at that speed disregarding distance.

Concession accepted.

Thank you come again.

[Crazedwraith]

IVE ELIMINATED FOCE CHOKE FROM CONSIDERATION

dam i need a bigger font

[KK]

I see.

So did Helen Keller, by that definition.

So you can't refute that Jedi are trained in certain ways and all but the most exceptional have similar powers.

If you would stop using the most exceptional to define the average, there would be no problem.

You deny the objective evidence of RoTJ[/quot]e

I deny that Luke in RotJ can be used as a proper presentation of a Jedi. I deny nothing about the fact that he indeed did use a force choke. Stop using straw man tactics.

If i denied that Luke used a force choke, THEN you would be justified in claiming that I ignored objective evidence.

What I deny is your rediculous assertion that if Luke did it, that means all Jedi would do it. And I gave ample reasoning.

YOU are the one ignoring evidence. You are ignoring Yoda's direct quote, the fact that Luke was not a proper Jedi, the fact that he was still coming to terms with Vader being his father, and the fact that he had not yet come to fully discover the difference between the light side and dark side.

You also make no calcs toward the speed of the blaster in AoTC...by giving out the outright wrong 60 MPH.

Watch it again...at lowest with Jango at less then 10 m...the bolt go for 1-2 frames...and always stay at that speed disregarding distance.

What are you babbling about?

[Ghost Rider]

Ah still with the Wall of Ignorance...nice to see you have it full force.

And to Crazedwraith none of the ongoing....babbling has anything other then the speed of the Impact webbing is implying the thought of using the Force Choke but whether or not is it usable by Jedi.

Luke uses it in RoTJ...end of story.

And as for speed calcs KK...watch the Genosisan battle again moron.

[Crazedwraith]

u know im sure.....

IVE ELIMINATED FOCE CHOKE FROM CONSIDERATION

dam i need a bigger font