Ethics of Hunting

[Sea Skimmer]

If you need twenty-five dollars worth of bullets for a single hunting trip, then I agree, buy your meat in a store!

And after that go buy a .22 and several thousand rounds of ammunition, then go down to a range and spend some time actually getting the bullets to start hitting the backstop. Later perhapes you can move up to having the rounds hit somewhere on the target.

[Death from the Sea]

3) lease/buy the land to hunt on ~ $500 to several thounsand dollars

Where in the hell do you live?
Why would you need to BUY the land to hunt on? Are there no public lands? People here hunt on public lands or get permission from th elocal owners. Some folks can hunt practically from their back porch, but that is the outskirts of Boise...

Texas. Public hunting sucks since you can't manage the quality of the animals being produced on the land. Besides buying the land would be the best option just because you can go there and vacation when you want to.
quote:
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Originally posted by The Duchess of Zeon:


If you need twenty-five dollars worth of bullets for a single hunting trip, then I agree, buy your meat in a store!
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Well unfortunately they don't sell single bullets, you have to buy a whole box. Boxes tend to run from $15 to $35 dollars depending on the caliber and quality of the rounds, so $25 was just an average.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Then you shouldn't really include the price of bullets in the hunting price list, since you would use bullets from the same purchase for practice and other hunting trips as well.

[Sarevok]

I do not hunt. Nor do anyone in my immediate family does it. However my grandfather was a great hunter as a forestry official in the Sunderbans forest. He had killed many dears some alligators and one Royal Bengal Tiger. The heads and skins of these some of these animanls still hang in one of my uncles homes.

In contrast the only thing I have done closest to hunting is shooting crows with an airgun. Not only have I failed to kill a single crow my aim is terrible. I eventualy gave up the habit after I began to develop love and affection for all living things. Now I do not hurt anything unless it attacks me. I do not even shoot at stray dogs in the neighbourhood.

Hunting is perceived differently in my country than in the US. Here most people are muslims and consider the meat of most wild animals as Haram or illegal. Even those that are Halal or legal are very rarely killed. Hunting for food is very rare.

However hunting as a sport is common though it has become much tougher these days due to goverment restrictions. Still with a decent gun and by bribing the right offcials you could get a chance to kill a Royal Bengal Tiger if you are luckly. I do not plan on going on Tiger hunting though since these things are biggest tigers on earth and are very nasty. If you ever come to Sunderban and have the courage you may consider going Tiger hunting.

[Slartibartfast]

If any of you even considers tiger hunting I'm afraid I'm going to have to kill you. Nothing personal.

[Zoink]

Roll your little eyes elsewhere please, especially when you clearly don't have much knowledge on the subject,

Please show me how killing a deer for pleasure and not food is *not* a waste resources. A deer has a lot of meat that can feed a person for a long time. Donate the food to charity if you have to, but simply cutting off the head is a waste of resources. I chose my words carefully: Did I say "hunting for pleasure is wrong" or "hunting for pleasure is evil", or "hunting for pleasure can't make money"??????


FYI:

I grew up in rural Quebec, where most of my relatives spend a part of every year hunting deer and moose. I've never chosen to participate in this directly myself, but am familiar with the subject, having grown up with the local traditions of "weapons training". My father also traps, hunting various fur bearers, an endeavour which I've participated in for a number of years as a kid. I know the value of the hunting. These two activities were of great assistance in the 80s recession when my parents were out of work and on welfare.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

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Originally posted by The Duchess of Zeon:


If you need twenty-five dollars worth of bullets for a single hunting trip, then I agree, buy your meat in a store!
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Again, I ask, you would use a whole box of bullets on a single hunting trip? What are you trying to do? Kill a Kodiak with an AK? A lot of hunters handload their ammo anyway.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

There are Jewish dietary laws that state that an animal killed for food must be killed quickly and humanely, and that is where a schochat comes in: a professional Kosher butcher. Cut the big neck artery quickly and the animal basically dies instantly; there's a technique to it that must be trained.

Since it is difficult (but not impossible) to kill an animal immediately in a hunting situation, hunting is generally not a normal activity in Judaism. Although one of the most famous heroes of the ancient Hebrews was Nimrod the hunter....

I wasn't sure of the religion being referenced--I am aware of Jewish dietary laws (I've seen articles in hunting magazines before on how to slaughter animals in the field on your own according to Orthodox provisions--sheesh! It's hard enough as it is!)

[The Duchess of Zeon]

You can see they aren't doing so well.

The problem is that in some areas there are still to many of them for the reduced prey herds. Predators require a lot of food. The worst example of this is the reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone, one of the most FUBARed things that's ever been done in recent conservationism.

[Crazy Goji]

Yeah, I'm a hunter, but ducks are my game. Man, that was the most fun I have ever had. Sitting around in a blind, 5:00 in the morning, misquitos the size of sparrows. Ah, good times. Then there were the ducks. Man, it was fun shooting down those feathered flyers in mid-air. They'd come crashing down into the water, and a well trained dog would come and pick them up. We accidentally shot over the legal limit, too. But who the hell cares? It was on private property. Ah, good times.

[Zoink]

no hunting for food is a waste of resources. meaning it costs much more to
1) buy a gun/bow ~ $500 (one time cost)

You can get a bow for cheaper than that. But OK, $500. Key thing: Reusable. My father's been hunting for about 30 years. That's $16 per year.

2) buy the bullets/arrows ~ $25

The arrows can be reused, if they don't break. A bunch of bullets kills lots of deer.

3) lease/buy the land to hunt on ~ $500 to several thounsand dollars

Have friends who own land = free hunting. My father/friends have never paid to hunt. You buy a hunting liscense, that's about it. The cost is about $100-200 (I don't know the exact number).

4) take off from work ~ possible lost wages (if no vacation time is left)
5) drive to and from the hunting area to your residence(possibly several hundreds of miles) ~ $150 per trip

And if you live on the moon, it might cost $10 million to hunt for deer, therefore hunting for food is not OK.....not.

If you live in a forest, you don't have to take time off work. I walk 20 feet from my parents back yard and its forest. You do it in the morning/evening/weekends. You also have the pick-up truck warriors who simply drive up and down the road with a gun in the back, ready for a deer. You also need two liscenses per deer (at least here), so often an individual will kill a deer or two, then call a bunch of friends (who never hunted at all) for their liscenses, and share the meat.

6) pay the butcher to process the meat(granted you can do your self, but it still costs something to do that and it is a HUGE pain in the ass) ~ $80 to $150 per deer and it depends on what you want it processed as

Its the same price to cut up beef. My parents have to do the same thing when they buy a cow and have it slaughtered. They have to pay for the cow and the butcher, but its still way cheaper than buying the stuff at the store. When you buy beef at the store, you are paying for the cow, slaughterhouse, butcher, transportation, store costs, plus a profit margin.

total cost ~ $1255.00 to $755.00 for a single trip where you kill one deer, and you'd get maybe 85 pounds of meat out of the deal.

Holy crap. I guess if you're a "city slicker", and you plan your hunting trips like you do a vacation to Hawaii, I guess it can add up. But the fact is, you are going on a vacation. If you went on vacation to buy a burger it would add up too. The raw costs for hunting is not $1255.

or you could go to the store and buy the meat at a much cheaper price.

Even *if* you pay lots of money to hunt, when you have the dead deer in front of you, if you throw out the meet you are wasting a resource.

Honestly, I can't believe how much trouble people are having with my statement.

"Hunting for food is OK"... I get a bunch of hunters telling me hunting for food is evidently *not* OK.

"Hunting for pleasure is a waste of resources"... so if you don't use the meat, you are wasting the meat. If you don't want the meat it doesn't change this fact. I made no comment on whether you should do it or not. As for the "ethics" of wasting meat, its the same as wasting anything.. you probably shouldn't do it. I waste gas driving around town because I'm bored. *shrug*

[Death from the Sea]

You can get a bow for cheaper than that. But OK, $500. Key thing: Reusable. My father's been hunting for about 30 years. That's $16 per year.

True you can get a bow for cheaper than $500 but a good quality bow is going to cost you some $$$. And most rifles are more than $500(new) so I was using that number as a rough average.(plus note that I did say it was a one time cost)

The arrows can be reused, if they don't break. A bunch of bullets kills lots of deer.

Arrows are pretty easily bent and made unusable, and even with reuse, the arrow heads dull and need replacing, which costs $. Rilfes need to be checked annually for accuracy and that uses some ammo.

Have friends who own land = free hunting. My father/friends have never paid to hunt. You buy a hunting liscense, that's about it. The cost is about $100-200 (I don't know the exact number).

Hunting license for residents here in Texas is about $18 to $25 depending on what stamps you get. Your father is really lucky to have friends who have land that let them hunt on for free.

And if you live on the moon, it might cost $10 million to hunt for deer, therefore hunting for food is not OK.....not.

um.... ok

If you live in a forest, you don't have to take time off work. I walk 20 feet from my parents back yard and its forest. You do it in the morning/evening/weekends. You also have the pick-up truck warriors who simply drive up and down the road with a gun in the back, ready for a deer. You also need two liscenses per deer (at least here), so often an individual will kill a deer or two, then call a bunch of friends (who never hunted at all) for their liscenses, and share the meat.

Face it there are more people that live in large cities than those that live in rural areas. Even those that live in somewhat rural areas where hunting may be possible might want to do so there. Also shooting deer or any other game animals from the road is poaching and hence it is illegal, so those who do that are idiots ruining it for the rest of us. I don't know what you are talking about with the multiple license requirement, but if you need two and you only hunt with one then it sound like poaching again. You sure seem to be in on the poaching circles.

Its the same price to cut up beef. My parents have to do the same thing when they buy a cow and have it slaughtered. They have to pay for the cow and the butcher, but its still way cheaper than buying the stuff at the store. When you buy beef at the store, you are paying for the cow, slaughterhouse, butcher, transportation, store costs, plus a profit margin.

True the meat processing can be the same as done for beef, but it is just another added cost is all I am saying. Then there is the whole time it takes to get the venison meat back from the processor vs. the immediately being able to buy beef at the store.

Holy crap. I guess if you're a "city slicker", and you plan your hunting trips like you do a vacation to Hawaii, I guess it can add up. But the fact is, you are going on a vacation. If you went on vacation to buy a burger it would add up too. The raw costs for hunting is not $1255.

Once again my figure was a rough estimate and it would not necessarily cost that each trip. Also fact is that there are the "city slickers" who do plan their hunting trips like a vacation to Hawaii and pay thousands of dollars to hunt trophy game animals and only get one maybe two kills for the whole trip.

Even *if* you pay lots of money to hunt, when you have the dead deer in front of you, if you throw out the meet you are wasting a resource.

Honestly, I can't believe how much trouble people are having with my statement.

"Hunting for food is OK"... I get a bunch of hunters telling me hunting for food is evidently *not* OK.

Not what I said; hunting JUST for food for the average Joe is just a waste of resources(meaning his $$$), but there is nothing wrong with it ethically.

"Hunting for pleasure is a waste of resources"... so if you don't use the meat, you are wasting the meat. If you don't want the meat it doesn't change this fact. I made no comment on whether you should do it or not. As for the "ethics" of wasting meat, its the same as wasting anything.. you probably shouldn't do it. I waste gas driving around town because I'm bored. *shrug*

Your right shooting animals for the hell of it is a waste. But many hunters that do not use the meat donate it to programs such as "Hunters for the Hungery", where the meat is used to feed the homeless, poor and hungry.

[His Divine Shadow]

Please show me how killing a deer for pleasure and not food is *not* a waste resources. A deer has a lot of meat that can feed a person for a long time. Donate the food to charity if you have to, but simply cutting off the head is a waste of resources. I chose my words carefully: Did I say "hunting for pleasure is wrong" or "hunting for pleasure is evil", or "hunting for pleasure can't make money"??????

You said it's a waste of resources, it's not, it's quite good use of resources, it's no more a waste of resources, especially not the wild life, they grow to uncontrollable levels if noone keeps the population down, and look, here we have hunters stimulating the economy by buying guns and stuff to hunt, and in the same time doing the job of keeping animal population down, for free.
A good analogy would be if the state got people to voluntarely pay for the privilige of maintaining the pavement in the city and cleaning the sewers.

I think it's a damn good use of resources to get people to go out in the forrest and do the job for free whilst contributing to the economy by buying the equippment they need.

[Graeme Dice]

These costs are really ridiculous, so I'll deal with them one at a time.

no hunting for food is a waste of resources. meaning it costs much more to
1) buy a gun/bow ~ $500 (one time cost)

Exactly, so it doesn't factor into the equation over the long run at all, since a gun will last for decades with proper care.

2) buy the bullets/arrows ~ $25

Arrows are usually reusable unless they hit a rock or such. Bullets don't cost that much if you are only going to fire less than a dozen.

3) lease/buy the land to hunt on ~ $500 to several thounsand dollars

This one is ridiculous. You hunt on public land, or on private land where you have permission. You don't pay anyone for the land, you pay for the license to hunt.

4) take off from work ~ possible lost wages (if no vacation time is left)

Or you go for a weekend.

5) drive to and from the hunting area to your residence(possibly several hundreds of miles) ~ $150 per trip

Ort possibly less than an hour's or even only 15 minutes drive depending on where you live.

6) pay the butcher to process the meat(granted you can do your self, but it still costs something to do that and it is a HUGE pain in the ass) ~ $80 to $150 per deer and it depends on what you want it processed as

total cost ~ $1255.00 to $755.00 for a single trip where you kill one deer, and you'd get maybe 85 pounds of meat out of the deal.

Actual total cost, not counting the one time costs, and not counting the completely optional items, about $200. The cost for a side of beef is around $400-500 USD.

or you could go to the store and buy the meat at a much cheaper price.

If you think that retail meat is any good compared to wild, then you really haven't tried wild, or even proper grain fed meet.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I consider myself to be a rather enthusiastic hunter, and I obey all of the rules and regulations when hunting(State of Texas). My question(s) to the board members is 1) all do you hunt? 2) if not, why? 3) what do the hunters of the board consider to be ethical and unethical hunts?(do you approve of using timed feeders and box blinds, do you approve of "canned hunts", etc...)

1) I dont hunt
2) I dont like the idea of killing an animal for sport. With our weapons and tech they dont have much of a chance
3) Even though I dont hunt, I will answer the third. Trophy hunting. When you trophy hunt you are trying to take out the biggest strongest animal to prove how manly you are(but you use a rifle )
This hurts the species you hunt rather than helping it.

[weemadando]

1) I dont hunt
2) I dont like the idea of killing an animal for sport. With our weapons and tech they dont have much of a chance
3) Even though I dont hunt, I will answer the third. Trophy hunting. When you trophy hunt you are trying to take out the biggest strongest animal to prove how manly you are(but you use a rifle :roll: )
This hurts the species you hunt rather than helping it.

Like I've said - when I hunt, I don't hunt for sport, I hunt for a reason, usually pest-control or similar. Sure, its not fair, but thats usually the point in this situation. When you can shoot several hundred possums without walking more than 100m in any given direction and in less than 2 hours - you know that it was definately time to cull the numbers a bit.

[Zoink]

Face it there are more people that live in large cities than those that live in rural areas.

The point I was trying to make is that the number depends on where you live. Just because its too expensive for you, it doesn't mean hunting for meat is therefore impractical. Its like everything else, it depends on what your means are. Its impractical for me to hunt for elk, but for someone else it can be.

Even those that live in somewhat rural areas where hunting may be possible might want to do so there. Also shooting deer or any other game animals from the road is poaching and hence it is illegal, so those who do that are idiots ruining it for the rest of us. I don't know what you are talking about with the multiple license requirement, but if you need two and you only hunt with one then it sound like poaching again. You sure seem to be in on the poaching circles.

I have no relation to "poaching circles". I just used to live in a hunting area 24/7/365 for 20 some odd years.

As I said, I don't hunt personally so I can't quote the finer details of Quebec hunting laws, but from what I've seen, gamewardens allow shooting from the road.

For the two license thing, I found out its only for moose (its what I'm more familiar with). You can have any size hunting party you want. On the same day you need to affix two tags to the moose. Obviously its stupid to not have an agreement with a friend beforehand, as at any time while hunting you need to be able to name your partner(s) if asked.

If you want an example of what I saw last season: I saw a guy stop his truck, pull out a rifle and take down a deer in a neighbour’s field. I kept driving, but later heard that the farmer called the gamewardens to prevent the guy from getting the deer (he was understandably pissed off). The wardens told him that he had to allow the guy to take the deer... I thought it strange, but evidently you're allowed to prevent people from hunting on your property, but once they shoot the deer, its theirs and you have to let them retrieve it. I suppose if he had called the police he could have tried to charge the guy with trespassing, but that's not the jurisdiction of the warden....go figure