A Question for the Ladies

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-06-26 05:56pm

When I'm at work, I make sure to say "yes, ma'am" to basically every female over the age of 13 I deal with. Is this a good, polite, proper thing to do, or does it make you just feel old? I'm asking because someone I addressed as "ma'am" recently did NOT appreciate it.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-06-26 05:58pm

Durran Korr wrote:When I'm at work, I make sure to say "yes, ma'am" to basically every female over the age of 13 I deal with. Is this a good, polite, proper thing to do, or does it make you just feel old? I'm asking because someone I addressed as "ma'am" recently did NOT appreciate it.

It's patronising and mocking. It's like throwing a mock salute when someone asks you for a favour. I would not appreciate it. People at work call me by my name.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-06-26 06:00pm

innerbrat wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:When I'm at work, I make sure to say "yes, ma'am" to basically every female over the age of 13 I deal with. Is this a good, polite, proper thing to do, or does it make you just feel old? I'm asking because someone I addressed as "ma'am" recently did NOT appreciate it.
It's patronising and mocking. It's like throwing a mock salute when someone asks you for a favour. I would not appreciate it. People at work call me by my name.

Well, I meant customers, primarily. I won't call someone who I'm working with "ma'am", unless she's several years my senior.

But thanks, though.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-06-26 06:36pm

innerbrat wrote:It's patronising and mocking. It's like throwing a mock salute when someone asks you for a favour. I would not appreciate it. People at work call me by my name.

So, if a server says "Yes ma'am." when he takes your order, you'd be annoyed? I think that's what he was referring to.

But what about just saying ma'am as a general courtesy? Like if I were to pick something up you dropped, and you said, "Thanks," and I said, "No problem, ma'am." Would you find that patronizing, assuming I don't know you? Because that's what I'd do if I didn't know them, I'd say "sir" or "ma'am" as a matter of course.

InnerBrat · Post by **InnerBrat** » 2003-06-26 06:39pm

*looks for last post*

where'd my reply go?

Yes, I'd be annoyed at "ma'am". I'd bve annoyed at "love" and I'd be annoyed at "miss".
Most waiters refer to me as "madam" (maybe it's the leather) and I'm happy with that.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-06-26 06:46pm

Different etiquette on your side of the pond, I guess. I'd probably get the wierdest look ever if I addressed someone as "madam."

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-06-26 06:50pm

I'm not a lady, but in Business Communications class we're told not to use gender specific language whenver possible.

So I guess, when possible, avoid using it.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-06-26 06:51pm

innerbrat wrote:Yes, I'd be annoyed at "ma'am". I'd bve annoyed at "love" and I'd be annoyed at "miss".
Most waiters refer to me as "madam" (maybe it's the leather) and I'm happy with that.

Um, no offense, but apart from the letter 'D' what's the difference between "madam" and "ma'am"?

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-06-26 07:47pm

How about flattering them with "Miss" even if they're 67?

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2003-06-26 08:38pm

How fucked up and upside down is the world, when sincerly using the polite honorific is viewed as insulting.
The whole POINT of using ritual greating, is to make ACCIDENTAL insults impossible.

I once worked with a man, who got angry with me for refering to him as "sir."
He would angrily tell me "I work for a living, don't call me sir!"
I replied that I wouldn't abandon my manners no matter how backward and ignorant he was, to please HIS neurotic headtrip. I then asked if my bathing regularly, and washing my clothes offended him as well.Clearly implying I would no more give up my manners, than give up my hygene.
It is a easure of just how RUDE our society has become, when a proper polite reply, delivered in a sincere tone of voice, even CAN be thought of as an insult.
Compliments seem to work the same way. (What does he REALY mean? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar)Most will take it in the spirit offered, and smile as you brighten their day. What comes around, goes around, and we can ALL use more of this going around.

Many people today seem to have a chip on their shoulder, and will knock it off themselves, and blame it on you. They were mad LONG before you talked to them.
How DARE you be polite to me! Depriving me of an excuse to be mad at you!
Always consider the source, and think, "issues?"

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2003-06-26 08:49pm

The only people who get "Yes Ma'am" from me these days are Officers and dear mum, otherwise I'm calling you by your name and title

Failing that I mumble

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-06-26 08:50pm

EmperorChrostas the Cruel wrote:Compliments seem to work the same way.

Agreed.

I was at a friend's birthday party and she served us cookies. I asked who made them, and she said she did. So I replied with, "So that's why they're so sweet."

Everyone at the table thought it was an insult, and responded with the typical High School "Ohhhhh..." Except for my friend to whom it was directed; she apprecieted and said thank you, and we both got a laugh out of why they all thought it was an insult, and managed to rib them about it for a bit.

A funny little adventure, but it is an example of what you were referring to as well, in a way.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2003-06-26 08:51pm

Mr Bean wrote:The only people who get "Yes Ma'am" from me these days are Officers and dear mum, otherwise I'm calling you by your name and title

Even if the Officer is a guy?

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-06-26 09:09pm

Okay people, here's the deal.

Durran Korr lives in GA. In the South, saying ma'am and sir is common courtesy. My guess is that the lady in question was not from 'round there.

And at least ma'am is better than "hon", "honey", and "sweetie."

[edit] damn, I can't type/spell today. [/exit]

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-06-26 09:10pm

Darth Gojira wrote:How about flattering them with "Miss" even if they're 67?

For some people, Miss is even more an insult than Ma'am.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-06-26 09:12pm

I hope you weren't implying anything with that Kurr, Kelly.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-06-26 09:14pm

Durran Korr wrote:I hope you weren't implying anything with that Kurr, Kelly.

fixed it... sorry, dearest.

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-06-26 09:16pm

Hmm...I've never really noticed usage of honorifics round here...if I do hear them it's usually Sir or Miss or something.

I tend to use Sir and Miss myself. Nobody I used it on seemed to be bothered (guess they're used to hearing Hey Mister or Hey Lady).

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-06-26 09:19pm

Kelly Antilles wrote:
Darth Gojira wrote:How about flattering them with "Miss" even if they're 67?
For some people, Miss is even more an insult than Ma'am.

"It's Ms."

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-06-26 09:25pm

Lord of the Farce wrote:
Kelly Antilles wrote:
Darth Gojira wrote:How about flattering them with "Miss" even if they're 67?
For some people, Miss is even more an insult than Ma'am.
"It's Ms."

Except that was traditionally used for widows, and can be offensive.

Yes, it's PC run amokism.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-06-26 09:35pm

As neolong said, could be PC cause some people think it's a throwback to the days of slavery when blacks used to call all whites by ma'am or sir.

However, I think it's cause people don't trust each other enough these days. Everyone's so suspicious of the other that when the other gives a little compliment, the first thing on the person's mind is, "Is this person trying to cheat me out on something? Is he trying to manipulate me or something?"

People really need to stop being so uptight. I think much of today's PCness comes out from people being too uptight about everything.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-06-26 09:47pm

Durran Korr wrote:When I'm at work, I make sure to say "yes, ma'am" to basically every female over the age of 13 I deal with. Is this a good, polite, proper thing to do, or does it make you just feel old? I'm asking because someone I addressed as "ma'am" recently did NOT appreciate it.

I appreciate it from people I don't know, but it would think it a little excessive from friends. But then, I also think that courtesy in society is sorely lacking, and any sign of it is welcome...

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-06-26 09:51pm

innerbrat wrote:[

It's patronising and mocking. It's like throwing a mock salute when someone asks you for a favour. I would not appreciate it. People at work call me by my name.

No, it's not. It's a respectful courtesy address, in the same way you'd address any man as sir, and leaving it off would be a sign of extreme contempt.

Well, that's the theory, anyway. Your response, again, would make me ask: ..What happened to manners, anyway? How long does it take to make yourself utter such a simple word!? Can we use our luxury only to become crass?

That is one thing admirable about the south.. They retain a few traces of respect in civil society.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-06-26 09:52pm

Usually I don't say ma'am, only to my mother.

But when ever I talk to a teacher I always call them miss [edit]or sir[/edit], unless the get on my ass about it(like my crazy psych teacher), cause I have a hard time remembering names, and it's just quicker.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-06-26 09:53pm

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: That is one thing admirable about the south.. They retain a few traces of respect in civil society.

Thank ya kindly, ma'am.

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