Strom Thurmond - DEAD

[Pablo Sanchez]

I guess this is what Marina is reading when she thinks about the man.

Strom Thurmond
Veteran
Segregationist
Racist
Congressional Zombie

He was not really a bad man, he was a veteran, but the thing that he will be most remembered for is his stance on race issues and the way his tenure ran so far beyond the limits of reason.

The phrase which most defines him:
Strom Thurmond ran on the segregation ticket in 1948.

[Gil Hamilton]

No--I'm saying you should respect the military dead, even if they were political figures. Strom Thurmond is now Major General Thurmond, deceased, not Senate Thurmond. Understand?

Except he was Senator Thurmond, and was for 48 years and most certainly was a major politic figure. That political career was what earned kojikun's malice, just the same as Wellstones career earned Manji's. The fact that you blast Kojikun, but actually defend Manji (of all people). That makes you nothing but a hypocrite.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Hes former military, Duchess. And I do not award respect for people I dislike just because they're willing to jump out of planes to support their assbackward ideals. Contribution to society matters, and jumping out of a plane didn't contribute in a way that outways his asshole-ness. Yeah, hes got balls, big deal. Lots of people are brave or braver.

Well, that just proves how brainless you are. He fought to protect the United States of America, the country you now live in and have freedom in, against a regime in which, should you have lived, you would have been subjected to medical experimentation or execution. Regardless of his personal views, he fought and died for a nation, for an ideal, that ultimately has become a place where you are free-Free, even, to say such totally contemptible things about dead men who risked their lives for your freedom! You can't even insult someone who's alive. Cowardly, indeed.

[Iceberg]

So military service automatically earns political figures a bye from criticism on the grounds of their political history? Marina, I expected better from you.

No--I'm saying you should respect the military dead, even if they were political figures. Strom Thurmond is now Major General Thurmond, deceased, not Senate Thurmond. Understand?

Doesn't stop people from criticising JFK. Political figures are fair game for criticism, and the late Senator Thurmond's 48 years of history as a United States Senator didn't magically vanish once he died.

He's both Maj. Gen. Thurmond, dec. AND Senator Thurmond, dec. A man's political history doesn't die with him just because he served in the military, and Sen. Thurmond backed plenty of causes, both right and wrong, during his political career. His political history is part of the national discourse, and just as much a subject for debate and criticism now as it was 24 hours ago.

Every president except for Bill Clinton served in the military, and that doesn't exempt them from posthumous debate and criticism. Neither should it exempt a late Senator who served far longer in the Senate making policy than he did in the Armed Forces executing it. After all, the president is only president for eight years; Thurmond was a senator for six times longer than that.

[kojikun]

He also fought under the impression that he would be returning to a forever segregated and racist nation. He fought for IMMORAL shit, and that makes him an asshole. And don't bitch about me not insulting him while he's alive, since he didn't do much to catch my attention, you stupid bitch. fucking yelling at me for someone who "fought for my freedom". Okay, where are the gay rights bills he signed in on? Wheres him running into battle holding hands with his black brethren? NOWHERE because he FOUGHT for RACIST DOMINATION, you fucking stupid whore.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Except he was Senator Thurmond, and was for 48 years and most certainly was a major politic figure. That political career was what earned kojikun's malice, just the same as Wellstones career earned Manji's. The fact that you blast Kojikun, but actually defend Manji (of all people). That makes you nothing but a hypocrite.

Fuck you, Gil. You ignored my argument. I'll say it again: I'm defending Major General Strom Thurmond's memory. I'm saying that--the political figure is GONE. He's out of office, and now he's dead. Politics is a dirty, nasty sport. I think we're demonstrating that right now. War? That's a courageous and noble thing involving those who have dared to risk their lives for their ideals--and, ultimately, now that Thurmond is dead, now that he is not in nor never can be in the realm of politics again, he deserves to be remembered for the everlasting sacrifice, for what he risked, for what he had to endure, for what he had to see and what surely haunted him right up until the moment peaceful silence overtook him.

THAT'S the memory of Thurmond you should have, of his military career, and it is one to be at least respected--he should at least be spoken of in hushed tones, his political career forgotten. People like Kojikun who celebrate over his death? They are the lowest scum-maggots of the Earth.

As for Wellstone? I'll say it again--the man was a politician only, and they're nothing more than over-glorified lawyers. He did nothing as Thurmond did which changes that image. That's why I defended Manji; I would not have, had Wellstone done anything to redeem his image.

There are democrat politicians who have fought in the military, and if one of them were to die and some contemptible partisan to cheer, I guarantee you I would be just as outraged and vicious about it. This is purely about the bringing of low and facile hatreds in the realm of politics in to defame the memory of a dead hero, as any individual who fights for their nation deserves to be called.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Doesn't stop people from criticising JFK.

JFK might have been a bad President--and, fine, go ahead and say Thurmond was a bad Senator--but fuck all if you'll see anyone insult him or declare it was great that he died.

[kojikun]

but fuck all if you'll see anyone insult him or declare it was great that he died.

I was being sarcastic when I said that, you know.

[Iceberg]

Doesn't stop people from criticising JFK.

JFK might have been a bad President--and, fine, go ahead and say Thurmond was a bad Senator--but fuck all if you'll see anyone insult him or declare it was great that he died.

That was also over the top (*glares at Kojikun*), but it's equally over the top to say that military service exempts somebody from political debate or criticism after their death.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

He also fought under the impression that he would be returning to a forever segregated and racist nation.

The same man who eliminated the poll tax in South Carolina, this before he formed the States Rights party? Oh, sure, he was wrong about segregation and undoubtably believed in it, and his ideas were racist. But his actions don't indicate that he thought it would last forever.

fucking yelling at me for someone who "fought for my freedom". Okay, where are the gay rights bills he signed in on? Wheres him running into battle holding hands with his black brethren? NOWHERE because he FOUGHT for RACIST DOMINATION, you fucking stupid whore.

He fought to preserve this nation, and that's enough. And I think you not question the fact that any soldier in the Normandy Invasion would be quite pleased for the assistance of the black units there, and knew that they could fight--that was well documented.

Quite simply, Thurmond should be respected because he was willing to die for our COUNTRY. Regardless of what it was then, it has become what it is now: and would not have without that willingness among him and countless others like him.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I was being sarcastic when I said that, you know.

Good backtrack.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

He was not really a bad man, he was a veteran, but the thing that he will be most remembered for is his stance on race issues and the way his tenure ran so far beyond the limits of reason.

Well, thank you. What I am really upset about is the level of viritol that was directed against a dead veteran in the first post. Not so much that it existed at all, but that someone expressed pleasure over his death. That's really quite disgusting.

[kojikun]

Quite simply, Thurmond should be respected because he was willing to die for our COUNTRY. Regardless of what it was then, it has become what it is now: and would not have without that willingness among him and countless others like him.

And I'm going into the airforce fully willing to die for my country too, so why don't you lick my boots? Stop fucking kissing ass just because people are in the damned military and start looking at their ACTIONS.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

That was also over the top (*glares at Kojikun*), but it's equally over the top to say that military service exempts somebody from political debate or criticism after their death.

Political debate or criticism? No, and I'll even concede that I may be wording my defence too stringently in my anger. But political attacks that press in the realm of the personal? The man is a dead veteran.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

And I'm going into the airforce fully willing to die for my country too,

We're not going to believe that without some substantial proof. Stop ranting; it's unhealthy.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

(I know from personal experience.)

[kojikun]

We're not going to believe that without some substantial proof. Stop ranting; it's unhealthy.

Yeah, I'm ranting.

[Gil Hamilton]

Fuck you, Gil. You ignored my argument. I'll say it again: I'm defending Major General Strom Thurmond's memory. I'm saying that--the political figure is GONE. He's out of office, and now he's dead. Politics is a dirty, nasty sport. I think we're demonstrating that right now. War? That's a courageous and noble thing involving those who have dared to risk their lives for their ideals--and, ultimately, now that Thurmond is dead, now that he is not in nor never can be in the realm of politics again, he deserves to be remembered for the everlasting sacrifice, for what he risked, for what he had to endure, for what he had to see and what surely haunted him right up until the moment peaceful silence overtook him.

THAT'S the memory of Thurmond you should have, of his military career, and it is one to be at least respected--he should at least be spoken of in hushed tones, his political career forgotten. People like Kojikun who celebrate over his death? They are the lowest scum-maggots of the Earth.

You're wrong. His political career was as ever bit part of his life as his military career, in fact, probably more so. After all, he was a Senator for almost half a century. You can't eliminate half his freaking life from the record just because he's a veteren. I'd think he'd like that least of all. Being a veteren does not exempt from responsibility for the rest of ones life, nor does it make a person any less who they are. Yeah, he's Strom Thurmond the Veteren, but that doe not make him any less Strom Thurmond the Senator. He was a political figure, even if he's six feet in the ground now and as a political figure, your defense of Manji applies to Kojikun as well.

[Sea Skimmer]

I was being sarcastic when I said that, you know.

Had me fooled moron.

[Iceberg]

And I'm going into the airforce fully willing to die for my country too, so why don't you lick my boots?

Quit backpedaling, Koji. It makes you look bad.

[kojikun]

Had me fooled moron.

If you fucking thought I was rejoicing because the mans dead then youre an idiot. Yeah, I think we're all better off without him then with him and I can't say I'm in mourning, but I'm not fucking dancing around because hes now dead.

[kojikun]

Quit backpedaling, Koji. It makes you look bad.

She brought it up you dickhead, not mean. And how the HELL was that back pedaling?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

You're wrong. His political career was as ever bit part of his life as his military career, in fact, probably more so. After all, he was a Senator for almost half a century.

And he served in the military for thirty-six years; why are we concerned with time, though? It's the impact of events that is important, not their duration.

Being a veteren does not exempt from responsibility for the rest of ones life, nor does it make a person any less who they are. Yeah, he's Strom Thurmond the Veteren, but that doe not make him any less Strom Thurmond the Senator. He was a political figure, even if he's six feet in the ground now and as a political figure, your defense of Manji applies to Kojikun as well.

He was a political figure, but his actions outside of the political realm raise him above it. You understand this? No, of course you don't. You don't have any sort of respect for the military like their used to be. Sadly, that sort of respect has begun to fade. That's why ideas like reinstating the draft sometimes seem like good ones to a few people--they want people to learn respect for the sacrifice involved, which leads them to ignore the problems with such proposals.

Thurmond was a flawed man, but ultimately deserves to be remembered for his willingness to risk his life for his country. I would not, of course, propose to limit discourse on his political actions: But one should at least respect what he did in his life as a military man, and avoid slandering the person who committed those actions. And Kojikun did precisely that, a personal attack.

I apologize for bringing the argument to such excession, at any rate.

[Hamel]

Calm the fuck down, people

[Darth Wong]

Thurmond was a flawed man, but ultimately deserves to be remembered for his willingness to risk his life for his country.

Ah, of course. Just like we can recall the names of all the millions of men who risked their lives in WW2.

I would not, of course, propose to limit discourse on his political actions: But one should at least respect what he did in his life as a military man, and avoid slandering the person who committed those actions. And Kojikun did precisely that, a personal attack.

Don't be silly. The only reason you know Strom Thurmond's name is his political career. The fact that he served in the military is merely being used as a rather obvious shield to deflect criticism from some of his contemptible political stances.