Heisengburg owns god

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-06-27 12:57am

Sorry if the logic isn't to good but here goes;
The heisenburg uncertainty principle states that no one can know both the position and velocity of a particle. However this is in direct confrontation of gods omnipotence, so A. heisenburg is wrong, however as the uncertainty principle has stood up to Einstein, planck and others this is unbelievable, so B. god controls all particles in the universe. This leads us to belive that since god controls all particles god is directly responsible for the exact being of every person, therefore god made gay people and makes homophobes perscicute gays.
In conclusion, if the logic holds, god is the biggest asshole in the universe.
Eat that god. You got owned by an old dead dude who's only accomplishment was to say that you can't accomplish something.

Yes this is a joke, but it is a funny example of putting god and science together and getting hilarious results.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-06-27 01:30am

Remind me not to tell Darth Wong that were still looking for Schroender's Cat....

so is it here or there, is it alive or not?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-06-27 01:41am

The Yosemite Bear wrote:Remind me not to tell Darth Wong that were still looking for Schroender's Cat....

so is it here or there, is it alive or not?

Yes.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-06-27 01:56am

Dark Hellion wrote:Sorry if the logic isn't to good but here goes;
The heisenburg uncertainty principle states that no one can know both the position and velocity of a particle. However this is in direct confrontation of gods omnipotence, so A. heisenburg is wrong, however as the uncertainty principle has stood up to Einstein, planck and others this is unbelievable

It is generally assumed that God can violate his own laws; there are many more fundamental scientific laws that an omnipotent being would violate by his very existance.

so B. god controls all particles in the universe.

Not necessarily. God merely knows the location and velocity of each particle in the universe. He can choose to influence them, or he can choose not to.

This leads us to belive that since god controls all particles god is directly responsible for the exact being of every person, therefore god made gay people and makes homophobes perscicute gays.

No, this leads us to believe that God allows the existance of both. Which is no more henious than God allowing the existance of a variety of genocidal dictators.

On a side note, you seem to have a bit of a persecution complex WRT homosexuality.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-06-27 02:06am

The gay thing is just because i was reading the stupidy of GP4Teens and it pissed me off enough to make this post.
The god knows there location how. In order to know them he must observe them triggering the uncertainty principal or if he knows them then he must be directly influencing them so entropy doesn't make them unknown to him.
And god doesn't allow the existance of both because he must make them exactly how they are unless thought isn't caused by the make up of you brain. so god is directly responsible for all the hate in the world so, woohoo go god go. You make that hate.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2003-06-27 02:16am

Reading that hurt my head and reminded me I should be studying for my MCATs.

But as Howedar wrote, it's safe to assume an omnipotent being would be able to determine what Heisenburg could not. The Heisenburg uncertainty principle is a function of momentum and position but the electron and simply put, states that when you're measuring one part of the two, the other's going to change.

And to say "no one can know.." why can't God know?

Also, if the Universe was designed to be manipulated by its inhabitants trying to understand the universe on a minute and detailed scale would be impossible without laws that neatly tie those miniscule things into larger bundles of knowledge that we can comprehend. Carl Sagan wrote a neat little piece (I think it was Sagan) entitled something like "Can We know a grain of sand?"

His theory was just trying to FULLY understand a grain of sand was impossible without tying it into neat laws and patterns. Where if we were to try to understand each particle that makes up one grain of sand, it would probably fill up all the available space in our cerebrum.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-06-27 02:18am

Dark Hellion wrote:The gay thing is just because i was reading the stupidy of GP4Teens and it pissed me off enough to make this post.

Okay, whatever.

The god knows there location how. In order to know them he must observe them triggering the uncertainty principal or if he knows them then he must be directly influencing them so entropy doesn't make them unknown to him.

We've been over this. There are far more fundamental laws than Heisenberg's Uncertainly Principle that must be violated in order for an omnipotent being to exist.

And god doesn't allow the existance of both because he must make them exactly how they are

Unless he just tossed up his hands to see what would happen. You know, kinda how you watch an ant farm for entertainment.

unless thought isn't caused by the make up of you brain.

Presumably it has to be at some level.

so god is directly responsible for all the hate in the world so, woohoo go god go.

Only in that he choses not to stop it.

You make that hate.

You make me laugh.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-06-27 05:25am

Just to nitpick, it's Heisenberg and Schrödinger

And that is a really hilarious argument

Korvan · Post by **Korvan** » 2003-06-27 01:52pm

Think of the universe as a computer program with each particle being an object. In object-oriented programming, we can't directly access an objects properties, we have to call a method that returns the value we are looking for.

In our universe, in order to measure an objetcs position, we have to use other objects and observe their interactions and these observations ultimately affect the measurement we are trying to make, which is what Heisenberg is all about.

But, someone outside of the program can just access an object's data directly without having to call methods or get objects to interact to get at said data. That person can read the data, or even overwrite it with new values (at the risk of crashing the program).

Such feats are easy for an outsider, the real trick is to hack into the system from within. Hmm, starting to sound like the Matrix...

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-06-27 02:06pm

Korvan wrote:Think of the universe as a computer program with each particle being an object. In object-oriented programming, we can't directly access an objects properties, we have to call a method that returns the value we are looking for.

In our universe, in order to measure an objetcs position, we have to use other objects and observe their interactions and these observations ultimately affect the measurement we are trying to make, which is what Heisenberg is all about.

But, someone outside of the program can just access an object's data directly without having to call methods or get objects to interact to get at said data. That person can read the data, or even overwrite it with new values (at the risk of crashing the program).

Such feats are easy for an outsider, the real trick is to hack into the system from within. Hmm, starting to sound like the Matrix...

The scary thing? That kinda made sense to me...

Korvan · Post by **Korvan** » 2003-06-27 02:31pm

Hmm, that is scary. Usually my ramblings are completly incomprehensible due to the fact that I have great difficulty in putting these concepts into words.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-06-27 02:31pm

That would work if God was controlled (or was even part of) the physical universe. As he is spirit, he cannot be observed or proven with the scientific method, nor can anything that is spirit (angels, demons, ghosts, etc.), for the scientific method is used to test things within the physical universe (things composed of atoms, radio waves or anything else able to be observed, tested and recorded with physical means). God created the physical universe and time itself, therefore he exists outside of both, while he is able to influence both. One can observe only those things that God has created. One must also discount free-will and assume that God controls all things, rather than being knowedgeable of all things. I believe God has the ability to control all things, but he chooses not to exercise that ability. The Bible has recorded specific events in which God did exercise that ability, but for the most part, he seems to allow free-will.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-06-27 02:48pm

Its a joke jegs. Don't take it to serious or you wil hurt yourself.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-06-27 02:55pm

Dark Hellion wrote:Its a joke jegs. Don't take it to serious or you wil hurt yourself.

...and I've no wish to to that

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-06-27 02:59pm

Dark Hellion wrote:Sorry if the logic isn't to good but here goes;
The heisenburg uncertainty principle states that no one can know both the position and velocity of a particle. However this is in direct confrontation of gods omnipotence, so A. heisenburg is wrong, however as the uncertainty principle has stood up to Einstein, planck and others this is unbelievable, so B. god controls all particles in the universe. This leads us to belive that since god controls all particles god is directly responsible for the exact being of every person, therefore god made gay people and makes homophobes perscicute gays.
In conclusion, if the logic holds, god is the biggest asshole in the universe.
Eat that god. You got owned by an old dead dude who's only accomplishment was to say that you can't accomplish something.

Yes this is a joke, but it is a funny example of putting god and science together and getting hilarious results.

Fredrick Pohl wrote a short story around this called "Redemption in the Quantum Realm"
It was about this person who in learning about QM was dismayed to find a severe conflict with Christianity. So he formed a religion around the idea that god wasn't watching, and that sins don't count unless you tell them to god through a medium(priest). It goes on past that, so you may want to read it as it is quite entertaining.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-06-28 03:16am

"Stop telling God what to do."

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-06-28 03:35am

I thought he was still arguing with Niezche over whose really dead.

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