Strom Thurmond - DEAD

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I don't really see that it matters. You are just as defenseless if you didn't serve in the military.

You're drawing a line in the sand where none need exist.

Well, it was really based on the fact that we do accord respect to veterans when dead, due to their sacrifices for the nation.

[Howedar]

Yes, some respects are paid to veterans that are not paid to civilians. However, some are common to both. Grave-robbing is considered unacceptable for both groups.

I really don't see how postmortem slander is one of the former rather than one of the latter.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Yes, some respects are paid to veterans that are not paid to civilians. However, some are common to both. Grave-robbing is considered unacceptable for both groups.

I really don't see how postmortem slander is one of the former rather than one of the latter.

Hrmm.. Well, everyone? Is blanket application of the concept of the unacceptability of postmorten slander more palatable than that of specific application to one group of people due to their perceived rendered services?

[Howedar]

My dictionary says that slander is by definition false. I don't see that death even applies in the equation, really. False defamation of character is wrong, any way you slice it.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

My dictionary says that slander is by definition false. I don't see that death even applies in the equation, really. False defamation of character is wrong, any way you slice it.

Point taken. The word "insult" might have been better there--but, when directing a personal attack, where does one cross from criticism to slander? That's the problem with personal attacks.

[Howedar]

I would say that slander is when someone makes a confirmable claim (IE the guy was beating his child) that is demonstratably false.

[Durandal]

Yes, but racism isn't caused by individuals, or even political individuals, it's caused by societal trends (on a grand scale, and usually by a variety of factors). When there's no trend towards racism in society it wouldn't matter if you had racists as politicians. Particularly in a capitalist democracy. When there is, the politicians will be racists--as they need to play to the desires of the society.

But it's perpetuated be people like him. He had influence and political power, and he used it to try and stomp out the civil rights movement. Gee, what a great man of integrity. Must've been a soldier.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

But it's perpetuated be people like him.

One grants that it reflects despicably upon his moral standing. But I think Arik's comments on him being a man of era and his region show that, though such flaws reveal the mortality of veterans, their deeds in war also demand every due consideration.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I would say that slander is when someone makes a confirmable claim (IE the guy was beating his child) that is demonstratably false.

Fair enough. What about claims that are undemonstratable, but express ill-will towards the individual, personal attacks of that sort? Intentionally not taking a grounding in facts?

[Darth Wong]

But it's perpetuated be people like him.

One grants that it reflects despicably upon his moral standing. But I think Arik's comments on him being a man of era and his region show that, though such flaws reveal the mortality of veterans, their deeds in war also demand every due consideration.

So? Hitler was also a man of his era, and of his region. That is not an excuse.

Strom Thurmond was a racist asshole. The fact that he served in the military does not in any way change this fact. He ran as an unrepentant segregationist, and while he was smart enough to eventually back off when the prevailing wind changed, I don't recall hearing that he ever publicly apologized for his despicable position or his world-record 24-hour filibuster against civil rights.

[Superman]

I don't understand how he stayed in politics for as long as he did. Everyone knew he was a fucking redneck.

[MKSheppard]

Yes he was and he combat jumped

At 42

[MKSheppard]

Jesus christ, why does all the interesting shit happen when I'm asleep?

The Question Getting Banned, and now Marina going well...

[Knife]

I don't understand how he stayed in politics for as long as he did. Everyone knew he was a fucking redneck.

Appearently the rednecks liked him.

[Vympel]

"Even though we ended up on other sides of the aisle, there was never any doubt about the interest of South Carolina." — U.S. Sen. Fritz Hollings (search), D-S.C.

———

"This man, your friend, my friend, South Carolina's favorite son is gone, but he will never be forgotten, and his biggest legacy is in the small things he did not the large things he did, and there's so many large things he's accomplished." — Sen. Lindsey Graham (search), R-S.C., who won Thurmond's seat last November.

———

"In South Carolina, there are leaders and then there was Strom, there are public servants and then there was Senator Thurmond." — South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford (search).

———

"We have just lost our greatest statesman." — South Carolina Republican Party Chairman Katon Dawson.

———

The state "has lost its greatest citizen. He cannot be replaced." — Senate Majority Leader Hugh Leatherman, R-Florence.

———

"Constituent service became his middle name — whatever you wanted, whatever you needed, Senator Thurmond made it happen." — U.S. Rep. Gresham Barrett, R-S.C.

———

"Out state, nation and world are better places because of Strom Thurmond." — South Carolina Attorney General Henry McMaster.

———

"He was our living legend." — U.S. Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C.

———

"Senator Thurmond was symbolic of the Old South, but his willingness to change over time set an example for many South Carolinians." — U.S. Rep. James Clyb

I think I'm going to be sick.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Personally I don't know If I should morn the end of a human life, or play "Ding-Dong the Witch is Dead"

[Iceberg]

They Might Be Giants
"O, Do Not Forsake Me"

From the album "John Henry"

O, do not forsake me, my indolent friends
O, do not forsake me though you know I must spend
All my darkest hours talking like this
For I am one thousand years old

One thousand years old
Sure, you think that's old
One thousand years old
But what do you know?
In my darkest hour I'm talking like this
For I am one thousand years old

Oh, some have forgotten the flower of speech
And walks through the garden where I go to defend
Misbegotten notions while talking like this
For I am one thousand years old

One thousand years old
Sure, I'd say that's old
One thousand years old
But what do I know?
In your darkest hour, my indolent friends
We'll be one thousand years old

[Sriad]

Politics is a dirty, nasty sport. I think we're demonstrating that right now. War? That's a courageous and noble thing involving those who have dared to risk their lives for their ideals--and, ultimately, now that Thurmond is dead, now that he is not in nor never can be in the realm of politics again, he deserves to be remembered for the everlasting sacrifice, for what he risked, for what he had to endure, for what he had to see and what surely haunted him right up until the moment peaceful silence overtook him.

Well shit, we'd be way better off if we abolished politics and adapted war as America's system of governence. Thanks for showing us the light, big D.

In a different post

And he served in the military for thirty-six years; why are we concerned with time, though? It's the impact of events that is important, not their duration.

You know, I get the feeling that he had more impact as a Senator than he did as a soldier. I could be wrong. But I'm not.

[quoto="Steve"]
I personally didn't think much of Thurmond as a man or a politician, but that's behind us now. All that remains is to bury the dead and let History judge him.
[/quote]
So how does history judge him if we're not supposed to? Do martians write history where you're from?

This post is getting kind of long. I'll submit it now and keep at it in another.

[Sriad]

Paul Welllstone never risked his life in support of his nation, and was in fact engaged in opposition to our country's policies during a critical era, opposition which, in the long-term, has resulted in some of the most severe political divisiveness in our history. The protestors of the Vietnam Era crossed the line into sedition.

Protestors die too. Not as often as soldiers, certainly, but four American students died during the Vietnam protests --precisely because they were fighting.

For that matter, politicians die quite often. How many of our presidents have been assasinated? How many senators? I know for a fact that the percentage of murdered presidents is way higher than that of murdered soldiers (in the USA, at least).

Soldiers aren't the only folks who die for their countries, and that's a good thing to remember.

[Sriad]

In the first line I was referring to Kojikun's referring to Marina as a stupid cunt.

Take PRIDE in the word! Those women from the Vagina Monologues do.

It's all in the context. If you call someone a "wonderful cunt" or something like that you'd have a legitamate defense... Yea.
Moving right along.

[Death from the Sea]

And the world rejoiced.

that's low class man
just low class

[Illuminatus Primus]

He used his political power to stifle civil rights for blacks, in other words, oppress blacks. Being a soldier has no bearing on someone's personality, reasonability or even character. He was a racist dinosaur, and while his actions as a soldier were commendable, they do not earn my respect for him as a person. So yes, I am glad he's dead. The world gets a little bit better every time a racist asshole like him dies.

I think your sentence on "Being a soldier has no bearing on someone's personality, reasonability or even character." could be disputed most admirably by the soldiers now posting on this thread, and will be.

Bullshit.

Whether or not one is a soldier or not does not, in of itself, affect the intrinsic nature of someone's character.

Some of the most brutal and abominable individuals in history were soldiers. I don't think being a soldier has one iota of justification for them.

[Sriad]

A politician SHAPES the political and social culture of a nation by writing and supporting the laws of that nation.quote]

A politician shapes nothing. They just enact the results of societal trends on grand issues. On small ones? Important to a country but they have nothing to do with the socio-political state of the nation. People are not that important at all when it comes to the issues of the day--so personal, individual actions of heroism matter much more than anything done in regard to the State, wherein they have just become a reflection of the whole discourse of the State.

...All right, now that's stupid. Politicians are policy makers for their time in office. They're beholden to the public for their actions, but if Thurmond had done a 180 in the sixties and stood behind Martin Luthor King Jr it would have made major waves. Of course he probably would have lost his seat when re-election came around or shot before then, but if that wouldn't be a "Personal action of heroism" what would?

So, if you havn't picked it up from my previous posts, what I'm trying to say is this: soldiers aren't the only ones who put their asses on the line for their country. They aren't even the most among those who do, most of the time. Their sacrafices are noble etc. but they don't diminish the importance of people like Ghandi, Hitler, MLK Jr, Stalin, or any other influential figure. If anything, they enhance it.

Don't try to put such people off as "the results of social trends." They're individuals just as much as soldiers are, often times more because they don't have a CO telling them "Okay, it's time to jump out of the plane."

[Sriad]

He used his political power to stifle civil rights for blacks, in other words, oppress blacks. Being a soldier has no bearing on someone's personality, reasonability or even character. He was a racist dinosaur, and while his actions as a soldier were commendable, they do not earn my respect for him as a person. So yes, I am glad he's dead. The world gets a little bit better every time a racist asshole like him dies.

I think your sentence on "Being a soldier has no bearing on someone's personality, reasonability or even character." could be disputed most admirably by the soldiers now posting on this thread, and will be.

Bullshit.

Whether or not one is a soldier or not does not, in of itself, affect the intrinsic nature of someone's character.

Some of the most brutal and abominable individuals in history were soldiers. I don't think being a soldier has one iota of justification for them.

Obviously going throught the millitary has an effect, but the effect it has depends very significantly on what kind of person the individual was before they went in. You shouldn't send a psychopathic asshole to the Marines unless you want to end up with a psychopathic asshole who's very good at killing people.

[Durandal]

I think I'm going to be sick.

That asshole Trent Lott should've waited until Thurmond died to start showering him with compliments about how he's such a great guy, because now apparently people can get away with calling him "the greatest statesman" in the US and not get politically annihilated like Lott was.