Defeating a Death Star

[consequences]

Two different scenarios, one for snubfighter permeable shields, the other for not.

If fighters can get through, then my lead component is going to be obscene numbers of droid fighters(think millions) tasked to suppress surface fire and attrition away their fighter force.

If not permeable, then hold obscene fighter wave until shield breaches are created, then send them into the gaps, knowing full well 90+% of them are going to die without getting a decent shot off.

And 350 ISDs would in all likelihood be unable to breach the shields with lightspeed suicide runs, much less conventional weapons fire.

[Ted C]

And 350 ISDs would in all likelihood be unable to breach the shields with lightspeed suicide runs, much less conventional weapons fire.

350 ISDs aren't supposed to breach the shields , they're supposed to launch 72 fighters each to fly under the shields (as done in ANH) and attack the gun emplacements and shield generators on the surface. The ISDs don't approach the DS until the fighters have at least crippled the surface HTLs.

[consequences]

You'd better include Interdictor support, otherwise the DS is likely to hyperspace ram your ships for the hell of it. And if we take the least favorable stats for DS Tie compement, then you only outnumber the defending fighters three to one, unlikely to be truly crushing superiority when the surface fire is taken into account. Using figures not produced by the crack addled writers at WEG and Wotc, your fighter force is probably outnumbered from the start.

[Ted C]

You'd better include Interdictor support, otherwise the DS is likely to hyperspace ram your ships for the hell of it.

Is a DS even capable of a hyperspace ram? It takes a few minutes to calculate a hyperspace course for small vessel like the Millenium Falcon; shouldn't it take longer for a moon-sized battlestation?

Call me a canon (i.e. movie) purist, but I generally don't worry about "hyperspace ram" threats.

And if we take the least favorable stats for DS Tie compement,...

If you'll look back, I also pointed out in my first post that you would need enough additional fighters to handle the DS's own defensive fighter complement.

[Crayz9000]

Torpedospheres.

Lots of torpedospheres.

::pictures endless racks full of Torpedo Spheres flying by, Matrix-style::

[consequences]

Three Isd's came out of hyperspace, immolating themselves, but bringing down the Executor's shields. Using the most conservative figures all around, the DS is going to put out at least a million times the Executor's shield energy. This leaves approximately 999870 times the Executor's shields left over after plowing through your fleet. And you don't need to plot a course particularly well if you are intending to ram someone, especially with a 400 kilometer margin for error in either direction.

In addition, I thought that one of the problems they fixed with the DS2 design was the fighters slipping through vulnerability.

[Sea Skimmer]

Could Interdictors bomb it with moons or very large asteroids? (Interdictors are said to be able to create a planetary level gravity well. Maybe two of them could move a moon to a new course.)

Ehh, forget it, most likely they could not be accelerated to the speed at which the DS would be unable to avoid them.

Its turbolasers could simply vaporize the incoming rocks.

[Howedar]

Is a DS even capable of a hyperspace ram? It takes a few minutes to calculate a hyperspace course for small vessel like the Millenium Falcon; shouldn't it take longer for a moon-sized battlestation?

Not unless normal hyperspace jumps include passing within about 80km of obsticles.

[YT300000]

Torpedospheres.

Lots of torpedospheres.

::pictures endless racks full of Torpedo Spheres flying by, Matrix-style::

Random Rebel No.1 picks a sphere off a rack (:mrgreen: Torpedo spheres are 1.9 km in diameter).
Random Rebel No. 2: "No one has ever done this before."
Random Rebel No. 2: "That's why it's going to work."

I'm very good with coming up with names on the spot.

[Darth Yoshi]

Of course it's possible, if I ignore the fact that my Navy will be decimated in the process. A formation of Interdictors drop out some distance "behind" the DS2. About a thousand ISD2s, ISD1s, and VSDs will drop out between the Interdictors and the DS. I'll also need maybe a hundred thousand Missile Boats, TIE Defenders, TIE Avengers, TIE Interceptors, and TIE Bombers. As soon as everyone drops out of hyperspace, all the capital ships attack the same spot on the DS, hopefully bringing down the shields long enough to cause some damage and allow the fighters through. Then a slugging match between the cap ships and the DS ensues while the fighters spread out, going after gun emplacements and then hopefully knocking out the superlaser. Once a significant portion of the guns are gone, the Interdictors close in as well to assist in destroying whittling away at the DS.

[consequences]

Remember the shields on the DS1 were calced at 1e32 joules, and that the DS2 volume is ridiculously large in comparison. If we go by the WEG stats(provisionally) for the DS2 superlaser charging time, you'll find power output has increased by at least a factor of sixty. continuos energy output for the DS2 would be approximately 1e36 joules.

[FOG3]

Muster lots and lots of GAT-12j Skipray Blastboats with TIE Defender escort. Pray they don't have their non permeable shields up as otherwise the firepower necessary to take them require big capships which are going to be dying left and right. These smaller ships pack a punch are well shielded and armored plus are fast enough they have a good chance of surviving a while, against the various guns.

EDIT: This of course relys upon the definition of defeat that is to cripple your opponents capability to wage war instead of flat out destruction.

[Howedar]

Remember the shields on the DS1 were calced at 1e32 joules

Based on what? The Alderaan detonation?

[FTeik]

Do we know, how strong the shields of (both) Deathstar(s) are in comparison to the shields of a planet?

Going back to the use of torpedospheres, we could probabely calculate how many of those would be needed.

[consequences]

Pretty much Howedar, based on the portion of the planet that hit the shields if I remember correctly. There's also the fact that it has to generate at leats that much energy continuosly above normal operating requirements to charge the superlaser.

[meNNis]

The only thing that can beat a giant sphere of death is an even larger sphere, so ram in with kuat drive yards that'll show that upidy deathstar whos the boss of giant spheres.

[Natorgator]

What kind of effect would an ElipseSD's superlaser have on the DS2? Isn't it approximately 1/4 of the real superlaser power or something?

[Sea Skimmer]

What kind of effect would an ElipseSD's superlaser have on the DS2? Isn't it approximately 1/4 of the real superlaser power or something?

It was said to be 2/3's, but also that it can't destroy planets. But since 2/3s of the Death Stars output would still blow up a planet that’s been interpreted as meaning two thirds the magnitude.

[Master of Ossus]

If the DSII had been completed, the Rebels would have had no possible method of destroying it conventionally. While it is POSSIBLE that another group could have fielded the fleet required to destroy the station, I find this highly unlikely (particularly since a ship the size of the DS would probably be well guarded by other starships until it was making its final approach towards its target worlds).

[FOG3]

Well if we can use everything in the Imperial armada up to and including Eclipse's I think I have a strategy to destroy it.

First we assemble Fleet A. Fleet A will consist mostly of VSDs and Dreadnoughts escorted by Lancers and Nebulon-Bs to enchance thier anti-fighter capabilities. Volunteers will be taken from Imperator Captains to help increase the firepower. At least two Interdictors will be attached to this fleet.

Fleet B will consist of 8-16 Sovereign-Class Star Destroyers depending upon how many can be rounded up and 1 Eclipse-Class. The Sovereign's will be flying a a circular formation as if they were the point of a Death Star Superlaser and the Eclipse is essentially at the convergence point but behind them instead of in front.

Fleet A will initiately attack and catch the DS's attention. Fleet B will drop out of hyperspace from another vector effectively attacking their rear. The Sovereign's will fire their axail-superlasers at maximum power set to converge on the DS's shields. A few seconds later the Eclipse will fire its axial superlaser a full power.

Worst case scenario Sovereign's Superlasers just bring down the shields, however the Eclipses gun should still pack enough punch to either destroy or so seriously cripple the station it can be finished off with HTLs. Fleet A is attacking all the while their older ships being more expendable while still posing enough of a threat to appear to be an actual attack in of themselves. After the Eclipse fires its just mop up operations.

[consequences]

Nice try, now consider that the Eclipse/Sovereign superlasers can't possibly break the 1e32 joule threshold for planetary disruption, and that the DS2 shield will be, at a minimum, protected by shields of that magnitude(presuming that somehow a 5x increase in diameter, and at least a 100x increase in internal volume produce no more shield energy than the DS1, even though the superlaser can draw energy at at least ten thousand times that of the first design.) If we take bare minimum figures all around, the superlasers will top out at about 1e31 joules each(8 minutes max charging time, and presuming the ships involved have around a thousand times the continuous generating ability of an ISD). The assault you describe wouldn't even take down the DS1's known shielding.

[FOG3]

The Axial Superlaser

The main weapon aboard the SSSD Sovereign is the axial superlaser...a spine-mounted superlaser modeled on the main weapon of the Death Star itself. The Death Star's prime weapon was composed of eight individual lasers that could focus together, generating enough power to destroy an entire planet. By comparison, the Sovereign carries only a single laser, but recent focusing and generator advances make this ray much more powerful than the units used on the Death Star. The beam packs enough destructive power to shatter the most powerful planetary shields and sear whole continents in a flash.

The axial superlaser can be fired up to eight times per day at nominal charge and once per day at full charge.

Those mounted on the Sovereign are more powerful then one of the individual beams that make up the DS's Superlaser. 16 percisely targetted to hit the same point would either short out the entire shield or punch a hole. Planetary shields are shattered by the Superlaser carried on Sovereigns it would seem unlikely that the Imperials would bother going beyond that shield output. They for all intents and purposes are getting a DS blast straight to their shields. Are you saying that they upped the ante so it can take that?

EDIT: The most powerful planetary shield would be those of Coruscant I believe. I have a hard time believing a Battle Station has more powerful shields than Imperial Center.

[consequences]

Very simply, the DS superlaser is so blatantly overpowered for killing a planet it isn't even funny. a millionth of the power used would be sufficient to destroy any unshielded planet, if not as dramatically of course. Searing continents means jack squat when you are talking about the energy to overcome the gravitational attraction of a planet. Bottom line, is that the writers at WEG, and the guide to vehicles and vessels screwed up. The DS was designed to take the high-speed explosion of a planet at point blank range without suffering impairment. The Sovereign and/or Eclipse do not produce nearly enough energy to overcome the DS's capacity.
Your idea isn't bad, just insufficient. The DS1 was able to contribute somewhere between 1e32-1e33 joules of energy every second to charge up the superlaser, in addition to all of the station's normal requirements(shields, jamming, hyperspace travel, multithousand g accelerations). Given that the DS2 has an internal volume at least a hundred times greater than the DS1, its entirely possible that its combined reactors might take up more space than a Sovereign would in its hull.
Bottom line, don't automatically trust WEG, or figures derived from their work.

[Darth Mall]

Get an eclipse or a executor class sd and send it full speed into the superlaser w/ shields at full and all turbo's firing foreward just as the laser is about to shoot overloading the reactor and blowing is up.
and a SSD can be piloted by a small crew as done with the lusyanka in a NJO book.

or

do the same as above but fit the ship with a giant disruptor field to let it go through the shields.

[consequences]

Executor or Eclipse is 11 times a ISD's length, if we multiply all dimensions by 11(the lazy method), it comes out to have 1331x the volume. 3 Isd's crashed into an Executor's shields and exploded without doing any damage to the hull. The DS has a minimum of 10000x the Executor's shielding. Try again please. Not to mention the fact that the surface turbolasers would be able to destroy the ship on approach, and the tractor beams should be able to slow down the debris.