Strom Thurmond - DEAD

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 2003-06-27 05:36pm

I miss him.

A good quote I heard about him "You've never been groped until you met Thurmond"

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-27 09:29pm

Durandal wrote:That asshole Trent Lott should've waited until Thurmond died to start showering him with compliments about how he's such a great guy, because now apparently people can get away with calling him "the greatest statesman" in the US and not get politically annihilated like Lott was.

Lott was ambushed by a bunch of Democrats taking a cheap shot. The whole thing was nothing more than a political witch hunt based on a bullshit political double standard. It was crap from the start and frankly the whole thing left me a bit disgusted and more than a little stunned.

It was simply a man paying a retiring co-worker a compliment. There wasn't much signifigance beyond that.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-06-28 12:26am

Stormbringer wrote:Lott was ambushed by a bunch of Democrats taking a cheap shot. The whole thing was nothing more than a political witch hunt based on a bullshit political double standard. It was crap from the start and frankly the whole thing left me a bit disgusted and more than a little stunned.

It was simply a man paying a retiring co-worker a compliment. There wasn't much signifigance beyond that.

Odd that quite a few Republicans, including the President, went after Lott too.

I agree with you though, it was uncalled for and disgusting, but you can't call it a liberal plot unless you are calling President Bush or any of the other Republicans that either distanced themselves or went against Lott for it Democrats

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-06-28 12:28am

Gil Hamilton wrote:Odd that quite a few Republicans, including the President, went after Lott too.

It's called "eating your young." There are no friendships or allegiances in politics.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-06-28 01:37am

Stormbringer wrote:
Durandal wrote:That asshole Trent Lott should've waited until Thurmond died to start showering him with compliments about how he's such a great guy, because now apparently people can get away with calling him "the greatest statesman" in the US and not get politically annihilated like Lott was.
Lott was ambushed by a bunch of Democrats taking a cheap shot. The whole thing was nothing more than a political witch hunt based on a bullshit political double standard. It was crap from the start and frankly the whole thing left me a bit disgusted and more than a little stunned.

It was simply a man paying a retiring co-worker a compliment. There wasn't much signifigance beyond that.

Bullshit. Lott said that it would have been good of Thurmond had WON on his racial segregation ticket back in the 1940's. That is more than a compliment; that is a clear, specific statement that he thinks a racial segregation ticket should have been victorious, which in turn means that he's a worthless racist asshole. Don't make excuses for that piece of shit.

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2003-06-28 02:19am

It's weird to see him go. He's one of the mythical figures around that are old and will probably die soon but you're stoill surprised when they are. I almost thought it was joke considering all the SNL jokes about him.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-06-28 03:09am

Hmm have the jokes about White Sheets & Swasticas being flown at half staff started yet?

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-06-28 03:13pm

Death and politics make for a strange mix-- remember that Democratic senator that died in a plane werck a few months ago, and the Dems that came to the funeral started turning into a campaign stumping event.

Politics in general make one quite ruthless.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-06-28 05:08pm

Strom Thurmond is dead... And now he's running for re-election! Vote Thurmond's corpse for US Senate!

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-06-28 05:10pm

Coyote wrote:Death and politics make for a strange mix-- remember that Democratic senator that died in a plane werck a few months ago, and the Dems that came to the funeral started turning into a campaign stumping event.

Politics in general make one quite ruthless.

That was quite a shameful thing

I was embarassed to be a democrat at the time

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-06-28 05:54pm

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi wrote:Strom Thurmond is dead... And now he's running for re-election! Vote Thurmond's corpse for US Senate!

Zombie Thurmond vs. Zombie Wellstone for President! *snicker*

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-06-28 06:18pm

I'm not much of a fan of Thurmond's either, Republican though I am. To me, he represented a lot that was bad about the conservative side of politics, and men like him lent weight to the arguments from the left that conservatives are prejudiced WASPs who look down on minorites. But for all of you who actually seem to be glad that Thurmond is dead, I found a short statement from John Hawkins at rightwingnews.com that I think is apropos.

Celebrating Thurmond's Death: Whether it's Michele Catalano or the Democratic Underground, it shows a real lack of class to mock your political opponents when they die.

I could understand being pleased at the death of our country's enemies, but if you're all jazzed up because someone who you dislike politically passes away, then I think it says something about you as a human being -- something not very pleasant. You're not going to see me figuratively dancing on the graves of Jimmy Carter, Noam Chomsky, or Jesse Jackson when they pass on, because I think it's malodorous to take cheap shots at someone over something as petty as politics when their friends and families are at the height of their grief.

Life is bigger than politics folks. If you're so consumed with hatred for people you dislike politically that you can't even show respect for the dead, then maybe you should step back and try to get some perspective on what type of person you've become...

I couldn't agree more. You didn't find me rubbing my hands together in glee when Paul Wellstone died, and you won't see me expressing joy when Ted Kennedy finally kicks off, or anticipation for when that day comes. It's just low when man dies and you're happy because you didn't like his politics.

Baron Scarpia · Post by **Baron Scarpia** » 2003-06-28 06:47pm

So was John Hawkins admonishing his conservative brethren when they rejoiced over Wellstone's death? Carnahan's?

How about when they started accusing the Clintons of murdering their friends?

Hawkins is just ranting for the purpose of getting on a soap box and playing indignant. Besides internet message boards, show me were anybody is rejoicing in Strom's death, and show me that they aren't fringe looney types anyway.

Rejoicing is nonsensical. He was 100, for pete's sake. He died peacefully, surrounded by his family. He was already out of the Senate and not affecting national politics anymore. So why cheer? What victory is won by his passing? I only hope I can pass away so well, especially should I spend a preponderant part of my life being a racist asshole. He was lucky he had the opportunity to somewhat wipe clean the slate on that count.

I don't see any logic in giving instant reverance to veterans who die, either. You should have the same respect for anyone who dies, veteran or not. Base it on their character and deeds, not their status. Plenty of veterans I know are complete fuckwits who deserve neutering. Plenty of others, including my grandfathers and uncle, are wonderful people. But serving doesn't give one a free pass moreso than any other person.

Wellstone was a hero, because he fought for what he believed, even in the face of it being unpopular, and was true to the people of his state. Disagree with his politics, but slandering him in death is no different than doing so for Strom. Marina's defense of someone attacking him is utter hypocrisy, no way around it. She should also realize that a healthy chunk of those "seditionists" who protested Vietnam were veterans who had returned from the war and had seen first-hand how are involvement was wrong. So are these veterans now contemptible, since you don't agree with them? My uncle was joined by grandfather, who fought the Nazis, in protesting the war, because they knew it was unjust. If you want to blame anyone for divisiveness in our nation due to Vietnam, blame the fucktards who got us involved there in the first place.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-06-28 06:59pm

Baron Scarpia wrote:So was John Hawkins admonishing his conservative brethren when they rejoiced over Wellstone's death? Carnahan's?

How about when they started accusing the Clintons of murdering their friends?

Hawkins is just ranting for the purpose of getting on a soap box and playing indignant. Besides internet message boards, show me were anybody is rejoicing in Strom's death, and show me that they aren't fringe looney types anyway.

I would not be so quick to pass this off as nothing more than that. You have absolutely no way of knowing how sincere or insincere those remarks are, and why not give the guy the benefit of the doubt? In any case, I think the sentiment expressed in these remarks is one that is laudable. Have a little respect for the dead. Even if you didn't like them or their politics, why do people need to say negative and malicious things at teh very time when their friends and families are grieving. He's dead now, so let it go. There'll be time enough to talk about his political legacy in the future.

Baron Scarpia · Post by **Baron Scarpia** » 2003-06-28 06:59pm

Oh, and accusing the Democrats of ousting Lott is ludicrous as well. Since when did the GOP give a rats ass about what the Dems said? The two parties snipe at each other all the time over such things, they don't get much steam. Look at how House Republicans called for impeaching Clinton right after he was elected, well before the Lewinsky scandal.

The Lott affair gained steam because conservative pundits started the drumbeat. They were generally p.o.'d at Lott for two reasons: They saw his leadership as ineffectual and compromising, and they saw his remarks as incredibly damaging to the Republican Party. The GOP has spent a good deal of their time and money trying to erase the image that they are the party of racists and intolerance. The bitter taste of Buchanan's putsch at the 1992 convention and its consequences aren't soon forgotten.

In that sense, Lott deserved to lose his leadership position. He was extremely careless with his words, something the Senate Majority Leader should never be, and he had become a lightning rod for criticism. The last thing the GOP wanted was a posterboy for racism, real or not, that the Dems could splash across the TV come next election to galvanize minority voters. They'd already had a field day doing that with Newt's face in 1998 to capitalize on the impeachment debacle.

I will add that, in my personal opinion, Lott is a bigotted asshole, far moreso than Thurmond probably was in the end. He has continually thrown political bones to his klan brethren in Mississippi with that winking smarm he's so good at. Frist is a far better choice to lead the Republicans in the Senate. Hopefully the GOP's former Dixiecrat racist bastards will fall off in increasing numbers, paving the way for more moderate, non-scary fanatical types to fill the voids.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-06-28 09:21pm

If nothing else, this thread was worthwhile just for letting us see Marina completely blow her stack in full "Fuck you, fucker!" glory. LOL.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-06-28 10:08pm

Perinquus wrote:
Celebrating Thurmond's Death: Whether it's Michele Catalano or the Democratic Underground, it shows a real lack of class to mock your political opponents when they die.

I could understand being pleased at the death of our country's enemies, but if you're all jazzed up because someone who you dislike politically passes away, then I think it says something about you as a human being -- something not very pleasant. You're not going to see me figuratively dancing on the graves of Jimmy Carter, Noam Chomsky, or Jesse Jackson when they pass on, because I think it's malodorous to take cheap shots at someone over something as petty as politics when their friends and families are at the height of their grief.

Life is bigger than politics folks. If you're so consumed with hatred for people you dislike politically that you can't even show respect for the dead, then maybe you should step back and try to get some perspective on what type of person you've become...
I couldn't agree more. You didn't find me rubbing my hands together in glee when Paul Wellstone died, and you won't see me expressing joy when Ted Kennedy finally kicks off, or anticipation for when that day comes. It's just low when man dies and you're happy because you didn't like his politics.

Oh please. Let's see wait and see what the Republican party's collective reaction is when Bill Clinton kicks the bucket before letting one party take the moral high ground.

As far as I'm concerned, Strom Thurmond was an enemy of the country. He was a dinosaur, and now he's a fossil. Maybe we'll be able to graph the decline of racism in the United States against the decay rate of his corpse some day.

Jeremy · Post by **Jeremy** » 2003-06-28 11:17pm

which in turn means that he's a worthless racist asshole

He's not worthless! There is a whole range of things you can do with him, ie sticking him in a plastic container of goo to have his heat emission be used by a giant robot as a power source.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-06-28 11:22pm

Perinquus wrote:you won't see me expressing joy when Ted Kennedy finally kicks off, or anticipation for when that day comes.

I'm a liberal and I'd be ecstastic when that drunken old bastard finally keels over from liver damage! You just don't know how to appreciate the death of someone who annoys you; then again, that's a skill I've found many non-sadists lack.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2003-06-29 05:40am

Durandal wrote:Oh please. Let's see wait and see what the Republican party's collective reaction is when Bill Clinton kicks the bucket before letting one party take the moral high ground.

As far as I'm concerned, Strom Thurmond was an enemy of the country. He was a dinosaur, and now he's a fossil. Maybe we'll be able to graph the decline of racism in the United States against the decay rate of his corpse some day.

This is a real problem with politics today - the inability to disagree with someone, or disapprove of their views without demonizing them. I thought Clinton was a terrible president, and I thought he should have been impeached, I thought he was extremely corrupt, and likely a sexual predator of sorts, but bad as he was, I would not characterize him as an enemy of the country. I oppose the use fo such terms, not inly because their really unwarranted, but also because when you throw terms like that around too loosely, they lose their force, and it becomes hard to find appropriate language for the real enemies of our country.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-30 08:48pm

Darth Wong wrote:Bullshit. Lott said that it would have been good of Thurmond had WON on his racial segregation ticket back in the 1940's. That is more than a compliment; that is a clear, specific statement that he thinks a racial segregation ticket should have been victorious, which in turn means that he's a worthless racist asshole. Don't make excuses for that piece of shit.

I think you're reading far, far to much into that off hand compliment at the man's birthday party. I agree with you that Thurmond's political stance at the time was appalling. And frankly I didn't really like either Thurmond or Lott, but that comment wasn't the horrific endorsment of racism that it's made out to be. At most it was a foot in the mouth mistake from an attempt to give a compliment.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-06-30 09:25pm

Stormbringer wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Bullshit. Lott said that it would have been good of Thurmond had WON on his racial segregation ticket back in the 1940's. That is more than a compliment; that is a clear, specific statement that he thinks a racial segregation ticket should have been victorious, which in turn means that he's a worthless racist asshole. Don't make excuses for that piece of shit.
I think you're reading far, far to much into that off hand compliment at the man's birthday party. I agree with you that Thurmond's political stance at the time was appalling. And frankly I didn't really like either Thurmond or Lott, but that comment wasn't the horrific endorsment of racism that it's made out to be. At most it was a foot in the mouth mistake from an attempt to give a compliment.

It would be different if Lott had said, "This man would have made a great president," or something more ambiguous like that, but he said, "If Strom Thurmond had been elected president, we wouldn't have the problems we're having today." The "problems" that Thurmond sought to address were those of the "nigger race" (his own words) being allowed access to the same churches, stores and public facilities as white people.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-06-30 09:32pm

Durandal wrote:It would be different if Lott had said, "This man would have made a great president," or something more ambiguous like that, but he said, "If Strom Thurmond had been elected president, we wouldn't have the problems we're having today." The "problems" that Thurmond sought to address were those of the "nigger race" (his own words) being allowed access to the same churches, stores and public facilities as white people.

Probably it would have made a difference. Probably still would have made a mess. It was a witch hunt plain and simple.

I agree that Strom Thurmond would have made a terrible president (then or now) but I think it was simply a dumb remark. I doubt Lott considered it to heavily and I'd wager he was thinking mostly in terms of it being a conservative in office.

Stupid remark, hell yes. But indicative of deep, hidden racism in Lott, no.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-06-30 11:32pm

Either way, welcome to politics. Bill Clinton got the same thing. The only difference was that he wasn't successfully removed.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-07-01 07:22pm

Durandal wrote:Either way, welcome to politics. Bill Clinton got the same thing. The only difference was that he wasn't successfully removed.

Clinton got nailed for crimes he committed not a bonehead statement. And I'm convinced that the only reason he escaped charges on most of the other stuff is he was simply good at hiding evidence. Whether you think he deserved impeachment or it's up to you. But he did perjury himself and obstruct justice.