Thoughts on Order of the Phoenix *Spoilers*
Moderator: Steve
She had all seven books planned out before she wrote the first one. I doubt it was meant as social commentary.
I am capable of rearranging the fundamental building blocks of the universe in under six seconds. I shelve physics texts under "Fiction" in my personal library! I am grasping the reigns of the universe's carriage, and every morning get up and shout "Giddy up, boy!" You may never grasp the complexities of what I do, but at least have the courtesy to feign something other than slack-jawed oblivion in my presence. I, sir, am a wizard, and I break more natural laws before breakfast than of which you are even aware!
-- Vaarsuvius, from Order of the Stick
-- Vaarsuvius, from Order of the Stick
Y'know, chances are she has actually read 1984 as well.
The current situation in the USA is not in any way unique - historically or geographically.
The current situation in the USA is not in any way unique - historically or geographically.
"I fight with love, and I laugh with rage, you gotta live light enough to see the humour and long enough to see some change" - Ani DiFranco, Pick Yer Nose
"Life 's not a song, life isn't bliss, life is just this: it's living." - Spike, Once More with Feeling
"Life 's not a song, life isn't bliss, life is just this: it's living." - Spike, Once More with Feeling
I liked that we got to see Dumbledore in action. He had a little more trouble with Voldemort that I expected but that was because I expected alot after bit in his office when he easilly stopped Fudge and company. That part was great and funny.
I still think there is an outside chance that Neville could be the one to stop Voldemort but that Harry's mark is so visible and because he gained power from Voldemort's attack make it very unlikely. I would like to see
Harry discuss the prophecy with Neville, it may help Neville out by making him think about what his life could have been. It could have been much worse, like Harry's.
I am looking forward to finding out what Neville's grandmother thinks about him now that he's been fighting Death Eaters. She really put him down when they were in the hospital. I was also wondering if, in additon to his confidence problem, Neville's difficulty with magic might have been partially due to using his father's wand. When Harry got his wand it seemed that for magic to work right the person needs to be well matched with his wand, although we have seen people make good use of other people's wands.
At the end of the book I was under the impression that Cho was still attracted to Harry but given what he had been through and was going through Harry wasn't concerned about that kind of stuff at the time. If they don't at least talk some things out in the future I'll be surprised.
I'd also like to see Professor Snape and Harry come to some kind of understanding so they don't so actively hate each other. I don't expect them to like each other but I would think that Harry learning what happened to Snape in school has to have more impact down the road.
Does anyone think Percy might have been set up as a plant by Dumbledore? I think the idea is reaching a bit but I could see it being possible. It it's true, boy is his mom going to chew his ass when he comes clean.
I still think there is an outside chance that Neville could be the one to stop Voldemort but that Harry's mark is so visible and because he gained power from Voldemort's attack make it very unlikely. I would like to see
Harry discuss the prophecy with Neville, it may help Neville out by making him think about what his life could have been. It could have been much worse, like Harry's.
I am looking forward to finding out what Neville's grandmother thinks about him now that he's been fighting Death Eaters. She really put him down when they were in the hospital. I was also wondering if, in additon to his confidence problem, Neville's difficulty with magic might have been partially due to using his father's wand. When Harry got his wand it seemed that for magic to work right the person needs to be well matched with his wand, although we have seen people make good use of other people's wands.
At the end of the book I was under the impression that Cho was still attracted to Harry but given what he had been through and was going through Harry wasn't concerned about that kind of stuff at the time. If they don't at least talk some things out in the future I'll be surprised.
I'd also like to see Professor Snape and Harry come to some kind of understanding so they don't so actively hate each other. I don't expect them to like each other but I would think that Harry learning what happened to Snape in school has to have more impact down the road.
Does anyone think Percy might have been set up as a plant by Dumbledore? I think the idea is reaching a bit but I could see it being possible. It it's true, boy is his mom going to chew his ass when he comes clean.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
Forgot to mention.
When Hermoine was leading Umbridge into the forest I thought she was leading her to be pummelled by Hagrid's brother.
When she didn't go that way I started thinking about the centaurs or as Harry was speculating that she had figured out how to get to Aggorah (or whatever the spider's name was).
The reason I was thinking Haggrid's brother was because we saw how resistant to magic Hagrid had been. I expected that a full giant would be even more so and would therefore be able to keep Umbridge busy for a
long time. As it was it worked out well with her talking her racists eletist smack to the centaurs.
When Hermoine was leading Umbridge into the forest I thought she was leading her to be pummelled by Hagrid's brother.
When she didn't go that way I started thinking about the centaurs or as Harry was speculating that she had figured out how to get to Aggorah (or whatever the spider's name was).
The reason I was thinking Haggrid's brother was because we saw how resistant to magic Hagrid had been. I expected that a full giant would be even more so and would therefore be able to keep Umbridge busy for a
long time. As it was it worked out well with her talking her racists eletist smack to the centaurs.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
It's been mentioned how little most of the magic world pays attention to the normal world. Does anyone else think that in some instances the magic world is still stuck in the past?
Certainly a lot of their attitudes are antiquated. Slavery for one. Racism/Specisim is another, although I'm not sure the normal world would be any different if there were non-magic species as intelligent as humans around.
I guess one of the things I keep thinking is why they don't have the magic equivalent of a computer or the internet. Why are they sending flying memos in the Ministry when they should be zapping them along with the magical equivalent of a computer?
On another note: Glad to see that Fred & George's store is doing well. Can't wait to hear their mother's opinion about that one and their new choice in clothing.
Certainly a lot of their attitudes are antiquated. Slavery for one. Racism/Specisim is another, although I'm not sure the normal world would be any different if there were non-magic species as intelligent as humans around.
I guess one of the things I keep thinking is why they don't have the magic equivalent of a computer or the internet. Why are they sending flying memos in the Ministry when they should be zapping them along with the magical equivalent of a computer?
On another note: Glad to see that Fred & George's store is doing well. Can't wait to hear their mother's opinion about that one and their new choice in clothing.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
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Axis Kast
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I doubt the Malfoys will have problem. Even at the end of this fifth novel, Harry acknowledges that without Dementors at Azkaban, the quick escape of the Death Eaters is virtually assured. The Malfoys might “go on the run,” though I suspect that a returned Lucius will have more than one surprise awaiting the Ministry at his ancestral home.
My favorite character is now Neville. And I concur. It would be quite the scene if Neville were to confront Bellatrix in the final moments of the seventh book and get some payback.
I have questions of my own …
(1) What’s going on at the other schools? We should have read into some of Krumm’s insights via Herminone.
(2) Why the horrible choices of Defense Against the Dark Arts teachers? Only Lupin – an obviously worthwhile instructor – and this latest woman – foisted upon Hogwarts by a higher power - were really justifiable. Quirrel, Lockeheart, and Moody’s impersonator should have been immediately obvious as frauds.
(3) I suspect Harry will break into the Ministry to try and talk to Sirius “through the vale.” I doubt he’ll come back to life however.
My favorite character is now Neville. And I concur. It would be quite the scene if Neville were to confront Bellatrix in the final moments of the seventh book and get some payback.
I have questions of my own …
(1) What’s going on at the other schools? We should have read into some of Krumm’s insights via Herminone.
(2) Why the horrible choices of Defense Against the Dark Arts teachers? Only Lupin – an obviously worthwhile instructor – and this latest woman – foisted upon Hogwarts by a higher power - were really justifiable. Quirrel, Lockeheart, and Moody’s impersonator should have been immediately obvious as frauds.
(3) I suspect Harry will break into the Ministry to try and talk to Sirius “through the vale.” I doubt he’ll come back to life however.
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Batman
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I'm somewhat dubious about this. Harry now knows that Snape had reason to hate his father, so he would propably understand why Snapes hates him.Tsyroc wrote: I'd also like to see Professor Snape and Harry come to some kind of understanding so they don't so actively hate each other. I don't expect them to like each other but I would think that Harry learning what happened to Snape in school has to have more impact down the road.
However, Snapes treatment of Harry, and, through the point taking, by extension of Gryffindor house, is easily reason enough to keep hating him back.
Plus, Snape's hatred for Harry is so intense is that he went so far as to defy orders from Dumbledore when he stopped giving Harry demention (?) lessons. I don't see Snapes attitude changing, and without that I don't see Harrys changing, either (at least not for long).
Hm. That would explain why someone who was merely a prick originally turned into a grade-A asshole. That, and he must have been in Gryffindor for a reason. Food for thought...Does anyone think Percy might have been set up as a plant by Dumbledore? I think the idea is reaching a bit but I could see it being possible. It it's true, boy is his mom going to chew his ass when he comes clean.
Somehow, that never occured to me. Still reveals a new, dangerous side of good old Hermy...Forgot to mention.
When Hermoine was leading Umbridge into the forest I thought she was leading her to be pummelled by Hagrid's brother.
(snip)
The reason I was thinking Haggrid's brother was because we saw how resistant to magic Hagrid had been. I expected that a full giant would be even more so and would therefore be able to keep Umbridge busy for a
long time.
Yeah, except for the part where she survived.As it was it worked out well with her talking her racists eletist smack to the centaurs.
That bitch had it coming.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
It's because they cut themselves off from the Muggle world some centuries back, and haven't noticed that while they've been stagnating we've been advancing. To be fair even western quality of life has only overtaken theirs in the last 50-odd years, but they're still using broomsticks, castles, swords and fireplaces. Note that none of them is what you'd design from the ground up for that purpose if you were using magic, they're all adaptations of muggle stuff. I'd guess it's partly because of their relatively small population, and partly because the really high-level magic can't be taught, it's innate.Tsyroc wrote:It's been mentioned how little most of the magic world pays attention to the normal world. Does anyone else think that in some instances the magic world is still stuck in the past?
Certainly a lot of their attitudes are antiquated. Slavery for one. Racism/Specisim is another, although I'm not sure the normal world would be any different if there were non-magic species as intelligent as humans around.
I guess one of the things I keep thinking is why they don't have the magic equivalent of a computer or the internet. Why are they sending flying memos in the Ministry when they should be zapping them along with the magical equivalent of a computer?
The interesting thing is that as bad as they are at understanding technology they don't seem to notice the social differences at all, and as you say, even though a few of them can work out that their attitudes are wrong, they ignore what's happened outside their world. One thing I like a whole lot was that the Sorting Hat itself was asking whether the House system was a good idea, even though no-one else has wondered about it.
My wife went to Vorbarr Sultana and all I got was this bloody shopping bag.
I think you're probably right. I was just being hopefull. I never expect that they'll like each other but I was hoping they'd reach a grudging understanding.Batman wrote: I'm somewhat dubious about this. Harry now knows that Snape had reason to hate his father, so he would propably understand why Snapes hates him.
However, Snapes treatment of Harry, and, through the point taking, by extension of Gryffindor house, is easily reason enough to keep hating him back.
Plus, Snape's hatred for Harry is so intense is that he went so far as to defy orders from Dumbledore when he stopped giving Harry demention (?) lessons. I don't see Snapes attitude changing, and without that I don't see Harrys changing, either (at least not for long).
I'd be interested to see Snape's reaction if he found out that the sorting hat strongly considered putting Harry in Slytherin house. I also wonder if he would have treated Harry any better if he was in Slytherin?
Anyone else think it was a nice touch when Hermione mentioned that the hat almost put her in Ravenclaw? Something that we had not be privy to at the time of her selection. It wasn't just Harry that the hat had to think about a bit.
The only thing is that he's doing an awfully good job being an asshole. He also started on it early so I'm still leaning towards it just being him and not any undercover scenerio.Batman wrote: Hm. That would explain why someone who was merely a prick originally turned into a grade-A asshole. That, and he must have been in Gryffindor for a reason. Food for thought...
Batman wrote: Somehow, that never occured to me. Still reveals a new, dangerous side of good old Hermy...
I think it was justified in the situation they were in. They were all caught and someone's life was potentially at stake. Plus, Umbridge had just admitted to trying to kill Harry and his cousin by sending the dementors.
Batman wrote: Yeah, except for the part where she survived.
That bitch had it coming.
That she did. Not only was she a nasty bitch, she was annoying. All that coughing and throat clearing. I liked how McGonagall dealt with her. The other teachers were pretty good too, even Snape.
I was really surprised Umbridge survived the centaurs. I'm also surprised she wasn't arrested since she admitted sending the dementors after Harry.
Do you suppose the centaurs are going to be really pissed now that Dumbledore walked into their forest and took her away? It's possible Dumbledore being who he is and speaking respectfully to the centaurs was able to talk them into giving her up without using any magic. It tends to mean more if someone you know can kick your ass treats you with respect.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
I think harry owes snape a profound apology for what he did. Regardless of how Dumbledore had previously left the pensieve out to deliberately lure Harrry, such a violatin of one's personal memories is very nearly unforgiveable.
Added to that the revelation that James was an asshole, I like Snape a lot more than I did, even if he is a petty short sighted judgemental man.
The Harry/Sanpe relationship should be mended, but it's up to Harry to do that.
Additional thoughts - I knew the minute it was made clear how usless Sirius was that he was disposable and was going to die, but his relationship with Harry should have been built on more. They weren't THAT cose in Goblet...
If James wasn't a prefect, how did he make Head Boy?
Added to that the revelation that James was an asshole, I like Snape a lot more than I did, even if he is a petty short sighted judgemental man.
The Harry/Sanpe relationship should be mended, but it's up to Harry to do that.
Additional thoughts - I knew the minute it was made clear how usless Sirius was that he was disposable and was going to die, but his relationship with Harry should have been built on more. They weren't THAT cose in Goblet...
If James wasn't a prefect, how did he make Head Boy?
"I fight with love, and I laugh with rage, you gotta live light enough to see the humour and long enough to see some change" - Ani DiFranco, Pick Yer Nose
"Life 's not a song, life isn't bliss, life is just this: it's living." - Spike, Once More with Feeling
"Life 's not a song, life isn't bliss, life is just this: it's living." - Spike, Once More with Feeling
innerbrat wrote:I think harry owes snape a profound apology for what he did. Regardless of how Dumbledore had previously left the pensieve out to deliberately lure Harrry, such a violatin of one's personal memories is very nearly unforgiveable.
Added to that the revelation that James was an asshole, I like Snape a lot more than I did, even if he is a petty short sighted judgemental man.
The Harry/Sanpe relationship should be mended, but it's up to Harry to do that.
I'm guessing that it was arrainged at least partially by the staff. We know that they all seem to remember James Potter fondly, and so it wouldn't suprise me that they gave him a little extra 'help' because of his power as a wizard and then looked the other way. It would explain why Snape is so hard on Harry. He's trying to prevent Harry from becoming another James. I've sympathized with Snape since we found out the details of his supposed 'debt' to James. Harry has to prove to Snape that he's not going to be like James Potter. So far he's failing miserably, and the staff haven't done much to improve the situation.If James wasn't a prefect, how did he make Head Boy?
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generator_g1
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Jabba as Prof. Umbridge...
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The Drunkard Kid
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That is so accurate that it's scary. And now we know why she hates half-breeds so much, what with her sister Jabbores...
As for Percy, I don't think that he'd ever do a Crouch, considering how pissed off he kept getting in Book 2 when the twins were teasing Ginny, and how he ran into the lake when Harry came back with Ron in Book 4, despite the fact that, as a judge, he should have know that Ron was never in the slightest danger.
As for Percy, I don't think that he'd ever do a Crouch, considering how pissed off he kept getting in Book 2 when the twins were teasing Ginny, and how he ran into the lake when Harry came back with Ron in Book 4, despite the fact that, as a judge, he should have know that Ron was never in the slightest danger.
"What's that smear on the wall, Mommy?"
"That used to be Spider-Man, honey."
"What killed him?"
"A zipper. Some said it was velcro, but the Daily Bugle said it was a zipper, and I believe the Bugle."
"Wow, he musta been real stupid, huh?"
"Yes honey, he was."
"That used to be Spider-Man, honey."
"What killed him?"
"A zipper. Some said it was velcro, but the Daily Bugle said it was a zipper, and I believe the Bugle."
"Wow, he musta been real stupid, huh?"
"Yes honey, he was."
I agree. However poorly Snape treats Harry is Snape's problem but Harry at least owes him an appology for checking out his memories.innerbrat wrote:I think harry owes snape a profound apology for what he did. Regardless of how Dumbledore had previously left the pensieve out to deliberately lure Harrry, such a violatin of one's personal memories is very nearly unforgiveable.
Added to that the revelation that James was an asshole, I like Snape a lot more than I did, even if he is a petty short sighted judgemental man.
The Harry/Sanpe relationship should be mended, but it's up to Harry to do that.
I think it's interesting that Snape and Harry can't get along for crap when they are around each other but Snape still managed to figure out Harry's criptic comments about "Pad" and warn the rest of the group.
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
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The Drunkard Kid
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Bartimous Crouch, Sr. Ron said that he wouldn't be surprised if Percy ended up sacrificing his family for his ambition like they thought Crouch, Sr. did after Harry looked in the Pensieve back in book four, but I think that Percy truly does love his siblings, even if he's a pompous git.JodoForce wrote:Crouch?
As for Snape, IIRC, Harry said something along the lines of "They've caught Padfoot in the place we're not supposed to go", or something like that. The Padfoot part would be easy enough to decipher, since Snape knows all four of the nick names, but the last half was somewhat tricky.
Personally, I think that the entire fiasco could have been bypassed if Dumbledore just told Harry that Voldemort was after the prophecy that might reveal how to kill him (Harry), but Dumbledore would tell it to him directly as soon as he (Harry, again) masters Occlumency. It would have saved a lot of time and effort, but Dumbledore admits that he screwed up there...
"What's that smear on the wall, Mommy?"
"That used to be Spider-Man, honey."
"What killed him?"
"A zipper. Some said it was velcro, but the Daily Bugle said it was a zipper, and I believe the Bugle."
"Wow, he musta been real stupid, huh?"
"Yes honey, he was."
"That used to be Spider-Man, honey."
"What killed him?"
"A zipper. Some said it was velcro, but the Daily Bugle said it was a zipper, and I believe the Bugle."
"Wow, he musta been real stupid, huh?"
"Yes honey, he was."
Things I'm hoping for from the last two books:
Some have already mentioned some kind of reconcillation between Harry and Snape, and I'd like to see that too. Maybe something as a dramatic as Harry saving Snape's life, or something as subtle as Harry apologising for the pensive incident, or maybe learning Snape's connection to Voldemort. It's certainly interesting that Snape refers to Voldy as the Dark Lord...
Neville will probably end up confronting his parents' aggressor, though the outcome is up in the air.
I'm predicting that Ron and Herminone will end up together. There were subtle hints planted at this in Goblet, so that's my guess. Harry will end up with either Cho or Luna.
I don't actually believe Sirus is dead. This veil business is too strange, and in the world of Harry Potter, things have turned out to be otherwise from what they seem before.
Draco is going to be a major antagonistic in book six, since he'll be raging at the shaming of his father, and by extension, his family. Likewise for Crabbe and Goyle.
As to whether Harry himself will behave in book six, well, he's worried now that he'll place his friends in danger, especially given his weird link with Voldemort. He'll be sullen, withdrawn, and miserable in book six, unless Snape can teach him how to protect his mind. Even then, he won't be particularly happy.
I also think it's time to really take a bite out of Harry's world. Hagrid, Mcgonagol, or maybe even Ron or Herminone should be placed in great danger, or even killed in book six. A bite out of Voldemort's world or plans would go down well too, for it sets up an angry confrontation in book seven.
Some have already mentioned some kind of reconcillation between Harry and Snape, and I'd like to see that too. Maybe something as a dramatic as Harry saving Snape's life, or something as subtle as Harry apologising for the pensive incident, or maybe learning Snape's connection to Voldemort. It's certainly interesting that Snape refers to Voldy as the Dark Lord...
Neville will probably end up confronting his parents' aggressor, though the outcome is up in the air.
I'm predicting that Ron and Herminone will end up together. There were subtle hints planted at this in Goblet, so that's my guess. Harry will end up with either Cho or Luna.
I don't actually believe Sirus is dead. This veil business is too strange, and in the world of Harry Potter, things have turned out to be otherwise from what they seem before.
Draco is going to be a major antagonistic in book six, since he'll be raging at the shaming of his father, and by extension, his family. Likewise for Crabbe and Goyle.
As to whether Harry himself will behave in book six, well, he's worried now that he'll place his friends in danger, especially given his weird link with Voldemort. He'll be sullen, withdrawn, and miserable in book six, unless Snape can teach him how to protect his mind. Even then, he won't be particularly happy.
I also think it's time to really take a bite out of Harry's world. Hagrid, Mcgonagol, or maybe even Ron or Herminone should be placed in great danger, or even killed in book six. A bite out of Voldemort's world or plans would go down well too, for it sets up an angry confrontation in book seven.
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I think I can see most members of Slytherin joining up with the rest, but I don't see Draco doing so, not after his daddy was exposed. He'll be out for blood- Harry's blood, though we know from the prophecy that only Voldemort can kill him.Crazedwraith wrote:Personally i dont the book 5 was very good. The overall plot didn't seem strong. However it has provided an insite considering what the sorting had said i think that one of the main plots of the next books will be the houses uniting. And deat lil draco coming to the side of good.
Oh yesa and the movies are crap and deserve to be boiled to death in frog-spawn
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Subtle hints? Subtle?! I'm surprised they're not at it like rabbits, the tension between them!Sothis wrote: I'm predicting that Ron and Herminone will end up together. There were subtle hints planted at this in Goblet, so that's my guess.
*sigh* I'm Hermione surrounded by Rons.
"I fight with love, and I laugh with rage, you gotta live light enough to see the humour and long enough to see some change" - Ani DiFranco, Pick Yer Nose
"Life 's not a song, life isn't bliss, life is just this: it's living." - Spike, Once More with Feeling
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generator_g1
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I wonder who's your Victor Krum?innerbrat wrote: Subtle hints? Subtle?! I'm surprised they're not at it like rabbits, the tension between them!
*sigh* I'm Hermione surrounded by Rons.
My FLICKR page!
Remember, people, commas are your friends. Love them, embrace them, cherish them, and for crying out loud, USE them.
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Thatd be my bloke [/i]ne c'est pas?[/i]generator_g1 wrote:I wonder who's your Victor Krum?innerbrat wrote: Subtle hints? Subtle?! I'm surprised they're not at it like rabbits, the tension between them!
*sigh* I'm Hermione surrounded by Rons.
"I fight with love, and I laugh with rage, you gotta live light enough to see the humour and long enough to see some change" - Ani DiFranco, Pick Yer Nose
"Life 's not a song, life isn't bliss, life is just this: it's living." - Spike, Once More with Feeling
"Life 's not a song, life isn't bliss, life is just this: it's living." - Spike, Once More with Feeling