re: Homosexuality

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

The argument is: Homosexuality is unnatural and wrong.
The challenge: Grind the argument into dust. :D

Been there, done that, banged it up the ass, and bought the t-shirt. There are a number of active threads closely related to this issue, if I remember right.

[Xenophobe3691]

The argument is: Homosexuality is unnatural and wrong.
The challenge: Grind the argument into dust.

Homosexuality is unnatural - Please explain the similar phenomenon in Sheep, Frogs, and Rats in population experiments...
Homosexuality is wrong - If this is Biblically based, please explain to them that one of the pivotal characters in the OT (which contains this law), openly embraced a homosexual love with a character named Jonathan, and King Solomon wrote songs about the beauty of homosexuality. If not, well, there is nowhere but the Bible that considers it wrong, so...

[Darth Wong]

It is also worth pointing out that "unnatural" and "wrong" are not synonymous. I don't see anyone screaming that it's immoral to microwave your lunch.

[Sea Skimmer]

It is also worth pointing out that "unnatural" and "wrong" are not synonymous. I don't see anyone screaming that it's immoral to microwave your lunch.

There are all those nets that think microwaves are a government conspiracy/from aliens/cause cancer or all combine.

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

It is also worth pointing out that "unnatural" and "wrong" are not synonymous. I don't see anyone screaming that it's immoral to microwave your lunch.

Well, except a few whackos. Funny thing is, they're all a subset of, you guessed it, FUNDIES!!

[Frank Hipper]

Wrong? Compared to sex for reproduction in a first world nation that consumes more than it needs, keeping a population status quo in such a state is right?

Wrong?Heterosexual sex for pleasure, in comparison, how could it be right using your argument?

Wrong? Compared to sex for reproduction in a third world nation, where the term "standard of living" could be taken to be a cruel joke?

Unnatural? When you get right down to the nitty-gritty, if it exists, how can it be unnatural?

[nechronius]

It is also worth pointing out that "unnatural" and "wrong" are not synonymous. I don't see anyone screaming that it's immoral to microwave your lunch.

Well, except a few whackos. Funny thing is, they're all a subset of, you guessed it, FUNDIES!!

Unnatural - many animals engage in homosexuality and usually do not continue on their genetic material. From that standpoint it's "unnatural" as procreation dictates natural continuation of a species.

Wrong - what definition are we going for here? Fitting a square peg to a round hole is "wrong," so from that perspective we can call it wrong.

However last I checked most people of whatever sexual persuasion are sentient and find the challenge of fitting that peg to be entertaining and worth the effort. And due to that sentience I'm sure that the majority of "normal" people know that injecting sperm into an anus does not lead to procreation so the "unnatural" act is engaged in consciously and voluntarily. As long as everyone agrees on the motives, hell, sounds like a party to me and how can that possibly be "wrong."

Kind of reminds me of a joke I heard once.

This city slicker guy moves into a new house in the deep south. One day his hick neighbor comes calling and he says to the city slicker,

"Why don't you come by my house tonight. There's gonna be lots of eatin' drinkin' fightin' and fuckin'."

The city slicker says "That sounds great, what should I wear?"

The hick replies, shrugging, "I don't know. It's just gonna be you an' me."

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Some fundies have deviated from appeals to the Bible, and cite (possibly fictitious) statistics on homosexuals. The Anti-Porn guy had an entire page about it. Now they're making leaps and logic and using those to "prove" that homosexuality is "wrong". Just another thing ot shoot down.

[Darth Wong]

Some fundies have deviated from appeals to the Bible, and cite (possibly fictitious) statistics on homosexuals. The Anti-Porn guy had an entire page about it. Now they're making leaps and logic and using those to "prove" that homosexuality is "wrong". Just another thing ot shoot down.

Quote the Barna Research study to them, in which Christians are shown to have a higher divorce rate than atheists, with fundamentalist denominations having the highest divorce rate of all.

[kojikun]

mike, everyone knows those studies were funded by atheist bastards out to defile the name of fundementalists everywhere.

[Darth Wong]

mike, everyone knows those studies were funded by atheist bastards out to defile the name of fundementalists everywhere.

That's the beauty of the Barna Research study. It was funded by a Christian propaganda group which tried and miserably failed to prove that atheists are more immoral than Christians.

[SyntaxVorlon]

mike, everyone knows those studies were funded by atheist bastards out to defile the name of fundementalists everywhere.

That's the beauty of the Barna Research study. It was funded by a Christian propaganda group which tried and miserably failed to prove that atheists are more immoral than Christians.

That's the best thing I've heard all day, and its already 2AM!

[SPOOFE]

It's unnatural to fly in airplanes, it's unnatural to drive in cars, it's unnatural to wear clothes or live in houses or eat breakfast cereal...

Let's face it, "unnatural" is the only way to live.

[Johonebesus]

Homosexuality is wrong - If this is Biblically based, please explain to them that one of the pivotal characters in the OT (which contains this law), openly embraced a homosexual love with a character named Jonathan, and King Solomon wrote songs about the beauty of homosexuality. If not, well, there is nowhere but the Bible that considers it wrong, so...

I hate to burst your bubble, but the attempts to interpret the Bible in such a way as to permit homosexuality are generally weak at best, to outright bogus. As regards Jonathon and David, there is really very little indication that their relationship was sexual. The "strip scene" is really an act of fealty, the prince divesting himself of his authority and claim to the throne and handing these over to David, and pledging his support and loyalty. Saul's anger is justified, since Jonathon is potentially letting David rob his house of the throne, a crime not just against Saul or himself, but against all his kin, living, dead, and unborn. The obvious affection shared by the two does not necessarily indicate sex. The idea that love and sex must necessarily go together is a very modern idea. Still today there are cultures in which the person one shares one's emotional and personal intimacy with is not the person one has sex with. Until quite recently, intense and passionate affection was not uncommon in completely Platonic relationships.

There are a few "scholars" who go to far to try and find some sort of historical or Biblical tolerance for homosexuality. In fact, these folks probably do more harm than good, because their bad scholarship with an obvious agenda just gives fuel to the homophobes. Claiming that medieval clerics presided over gay marriages is just absurd. It would be nice if it were true, but it isn't. All these works do is help to convince reasonable people that there really is a gay agenda that wants to reshape society to its liking. This sort of bad scholarship is inexcusable and should not be tolerated at all.

Sorry for the rant, but this is a pet peeve of mine.

[Tosho]

King Solomon wrote songs about the beauty of homosexuality.

Can You cite some passages? I've never heard of Solomon praising homosexuality.

[UltraViolence83]

It is also worth pointing out that "unnatural" and "wrong" are not synonymous. I don't see anyone screaming that it's immoral to microwave your lunch.

Well, except a few whackos. Funny thing is, they're all a subset of, you guessed it, FUNDIES!!

We don't have a microwave, and none er, well, my uncle is a fundy but he would like a microwave...Ah, the pleasures of living with a grandmother who has a strong Depression-Era "Ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality.

Though I'm impatient enough as it is. If I used a microwave for most of my food heating, I'd get even worse.

[UltraViolence83]

Now to actually contribute to the thread:

Unnatural: So is raising cattle in those little boxes, but steak is good. If it's unnatural because it is sex without procreation, then maybe you should be against sex with rubbers? Oh wait, you already are.

Wrong: Why? What are they doing to you, besides the flamers annoying the fuck out of you?


A greatly funny thing I've seen is that some "pious" individuals who don't want to offend Mr. Cloud Man won't have coital sex, but everything else. God those people are fucking idiots, and more hypocritical than your usual fundamentalist.

[Baron Scarpia]

It is also worth pointing out that "unnatural" and "wrong" are not synonymous. I don't see anyone screaming that it's immoral to microwave your lunch.

Hardly comparable! Microwaving won't brown your meat...