What Germany thinks of scientology

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-06-30 05:28am

I love Germany

http://home.snafu.de/tilman/krasel/germany/index.html

The German Federal Government maintains that Scientology is an organization which has primarily economical interests. This idea has been reinforced by a ruling of the Federal Labour court (which is not connected to the government in any way). After having reviewed several Scientology books, the judges concluded that Scientology is not a religion, but a commercial enterprise.

Furthermore, the German government maintains that Scientology tries to distribute its ideas as widely as possible, ideally leading to a society where humans life together according to Scientology rules. A closer look at Hubbard's writings shows that this is not desirable since Scientology is structured in a totalitarian, anti-democratic fashion. Attempts to establish itself in a leading position in society have taken place in Rhodesia (1966, described by Russell Miller in chapter 15 of "Bare-Faced Messiah"), Corfu (1968, described by Major John Forte in his book The Commodore and the Colonels), and Morocco (1972, described by Russell Miller in chapter 18 of "Bare-Faced Messiah"). More recently, similar attempts were discovered during a raid on the Scientology headquarters in Greece (and Scientology was consequently closed). Possibly, the same has happened in Colombia.

http://home.snafu.de/tilman/krasel/germany/stat.html

The German government

The German government has for quite some time maintained that the chief purpose of Scientology is not religious, but economical in nature. According to the Government, Scientology disguises itself as a religion if this might be advantageous. For example, in the remainder of Yugoslawia Scientology has claimed to be a non-religious organization. In Greece, Scientology (KEFE) claimed to be a philosophical, not a religious organization. And when Scientology as founded in South America in 1955, one of its goals was "... to lend and borrow money" (this slip has since then been corrected).

The German government maintains that Scientology is dangerous for its members and possibly dangerous for society. Members are spending huge efforts and large amounts of money; high debts (> 50,000 US$) are not uncommon. Wages are low, often below welfare levels.

Some of Scientology's activities are aimed at subversively invading the nation's economy. This is especially true in the areas of management training and real estate business.

Report of the Office for Protection of the Constitution 1998
Report of the Office for Protection of the Constitution 1999
Report of the Office for Protection of the Constitution 2000

The Scientology Public Relations Campaign Against Germany. Distributed by the German embassy in the U.S.
The German government has also written a fairly detailed response to allegations which were brought by Scientology before the ECOSOC in 1993. It turned out that many of the allegations were fabrications and could not be verified.

The State of Hamburg
The Senate (state parliament) in the German state of Hamburg in 1992 founded a workgroup on Scientology, the head of which is Ursula Caberta. This group has published at least two documents (in German, of course):
Mitteilung des Senats an die Bürgerschaft.
Zwischenbericht der Arbeitsgruppe Scientology über die Aktivitäten der Scientology-Organisation.

The State of Bavaria

The Bavarian Government is implementing a catalog of measures against Scientology to "protect its citizens". The measures are intended to force Scientology organizations to pay their taxes, to intensify public awareness of Scientology and to protect the state from Scientology infiltration.
Bavaria on Scientology:

The State of Nordrhein-Westfalen

In 1994, the department of the interior of the state of Nordrhein-Westfalen commissioned an advisory opinion about the "effects of applying the ideas of Scientology to a pluralistic society in a democratic state". The opinion, authored by PD Dr. Jaschke, Frankfurt, states that -- although different from current extremistic parties -- Scientology has the hallmarks of a totalitarian organization, is mainly political and economical in nature and aims at the abolishing of democracy.

The State of Schleswig-Holstein

The president of the State of Schleswig-Holstein commissioned a study to investigate whether the idea that Scientology has of humans and of society is compatible with the German constitution. The study was done by Prof. Dr. Abel, Schleswig, who has done research on the topic of religious freedom since the early Eighties and has long-term experience as lawyer in cases involving Scientology and other groups. The first part is a thorough discussion of the ideas behind Art. 1 GG which states that the dignity of man is inviolable. The second part discusses the ideology of Scientology in light of these ideas. The study concludes that Scientology does not care a lot about the dignity of man, plurality of ideas in a society, or democracy. Furthermore, it states that Scientology is anti-social in character and does not guarantee equality before the law.

Yuri Prime · Post by **Yuri Prime** » 2003-06-30 05:37am

Right on! Germany sees through your cheap cult mind tricks...

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2003-06-30 05:38am

DEUTCHELAND UBER ALLES!!!

Really.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-06-30 05:47am

Nein... es ist...

Deutschland
Über
Alles.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-06-30 05:55am

Woo!

Go Germany!

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-06-30 05:57am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:Nein... es ist...

Deutschland
Über
Alles.

Wrong flag.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-06-30 06:07am

MKSheppard wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:Nein... es ist...

Deutschland
Über
Alles.
Wrong flag.

<SNIP>

Last time I checked, the one I posted is the flag hanging in my German room, and the one described in their Basic Law. They dont use the German Imperial Flag anymore Shep

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-06-30 07:54am

DEUTCHLAND
UBER
ALLES

Mine's bigger

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2003-06-30 08:00am

Darth Gojira wrote:DEUTCHLAND
UBER
ALLES

Mine's bigger

But not spelled correctly...

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-06-30 09:06am

Oh prima, jetzt bricht hier auch noch ein Flaggensteit aus.....

Scientology is is viewed in Germany as a group of dangerous and narrow-minded people, with some intelligent rulers at the top. No one really got illusions about some, except the simple minded, who got into thier net.
To bring it to the point, Scientology is viewed as dangerous in Germany.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-06-30 01:44pm

So, what's the difference between this and any other organized religion?

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-06-30 01:54pm

The Red White Black imperial german flag was so much cooler. Those three colors, in the proper proportions (black > white > red) are so kick ass.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-06-30 02:07pm

Well I hope more countries come to their senses and tax them to oblivion.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-06-30 02:14pm

Didn't Tom Cruise and some other Scientologist zombies complain bitterly about that court decision in Germany going so far as to say that the Germans were discriminating against them? I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-06-30 02:23pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:So, what's the difference between this and any other organized religion?

Read the articles in the web page. The German government does not view scientology as a religion, but rather a commercal enterprise.

Bug-Eyed Earl · Post by **Bug-Eyed Earl** » 2003-06-30 02:52pm

I think if anybody holds that whole Nazi thing against them, this is the perfect time to drop it.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-06-30 02:55pm

Their constitution is absolutly beautiful...you should read it sometime..

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-06-30 03:06pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote:So, what's the difference between this and any other organized religion?
Read the articles in the web page. The German government does not view scientology as a religion, but rather a commercal enterprise.

I know, but what doesn't it view, say, the Catholic Church as a commercial enterprise, too?

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-06-30 03:16pm

http://www.stmi.bayern.de/sprachen/engl ... ltsch.html

The governmental evaluation of the Scientology organization in Germany

The "Church of Scientology," which was founded in 1953 in the USA by the science fiction author Lafayette Ronald Hubbard (1911-1986), is an international organization headquartered in the USA. It sells personality growth as well as organization and management technology worldwide. It has adopted the organization and marketing form of a commercial educational company in the market for advanced training, but runs itself as a so-called new religion. Its activities have come into conflict with democratic societies around the world and continue to do so. After an in-depth examination, an Investigative Commission titled "So-called Sects and Psycho-Groups" set up by the German Bundestag (Parliament) described the organization in its final report as an anti-constitutional movement with a criminogenic structure. This evaluation is in agreement with that of the German forces of order. Behind the cloak of a new religion, this organization – described as a psycho-group and not as a religious community by the Investigative Commission – was able to skillfully hide its salient structural traits until recently, namely organization and logistics of a commercial corporation; expansionist strategies of an aggressively functioning structural distribution system (marketing of franchises by forming chains of subsidiary companies, hard-selling of human leadership and change in the form of social engineering. In other words, ruthless of psychological and social techniques borrowed from behavioral psychology in order to recruit workers, customers and members; use of totalitarian organization techniques to thoroughly discipline and intrumentalize its workers by constant control in terms of time and

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-06-30 08:19pm

There's hope for the world then.
Sadly, it's too late for the US.

Post by **Colonel Olrik** » 2003-06-30 08:50pm

Drooling Iguana wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote:So, what's the difference between this and any other organized religion?
Read the articles in the web page. The German government does not view scientology as a religion, but rather a commercal enterprise.
I know, but what doesn't it view, say, the Catholic Church as a commercial enterprise, too?

The European Catholic church is very well behaved. It does not take money from the believers (a church going person will donate two/three dollars a week average), it doesn't mess around with politics and does a visible social work, and that's usually the reason why it has special tax isentions. It doesn't fall into the commercial enterprise category.

Oddysseus · Post by **Oddysseus** » 2003-06-30 09:01pm

This is indeed interesting. The Dianetic lovers do get around.

But I am concerned and curious. What exactly happened in Colombia?

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2003-06-30 09:22pm

I have heard that L. Ron Hubbard tried to dissolve Scientology before he died. Does anyone have any evidence of this. I admit it could be just like the woman who claimed that Darwin reputed his theory of evolution on his deathbed.

h0rus · Post by **h0rus** » 2003-07-01 07:44am

Too bad others haven't seen the gimmicky non-value of religion as a whole. Only a matter of time I suppose. But how fucking long?

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-07-01 08:01am

Jawawithagun wrote:
Darth Gojira wrote:DEUTCHLAND
UBER
ALLES

Mine's bigger
But not spelled correctly...

Dammit! I knew I should have taken Deutch instead of Espanol!