The electronics of Star Wars

FU PICARD · Post by **FU PICARD** » 2003-07-02 08:21am

One of my favorite trekkie arguements I have seen is the one that usually starts with "Hey look at the freaking movies, all that wiring, they are only using standard 20th century electronics in those ships"

FALSE

Now I am not up on much canon, but just using common sense tells me that there is no way they are using standard circuits, capacitors and all, to power the ships of the Fleet.

If you look at the big Imperial Ships IE the Death Star is a good example. I believe it would be impossible to point wire the Star for functionality. IN THEORY, Hyperspace would cause a large amount of problems in the field of current control, as essentially wouldn't you be pretty much wiping out all know logic behind electronics the minute you pulled the lever?

I would like some comments from the books if some people have them, then I will reply with some facts as I am looking into this right now.

I need to figure this out

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-07-02 10:18am

FU PICARD wrote:One of my favorite trekkie arguements I have seen is the one that usually starts with "Hey look at the freaking movies, all that wiring, they are only using standard 20th century electronics in those ships"

FALSE

Now I am not up on much canon, but just using common sense tells me that there is no way they are using standard circuits, capacitors and all, to power the ships of the Fleet.

If you look at the big Imperial Ships IE the Death Star is a good example. I believe it would be impossible to point wire the Star for functionality. IN THEORY, Hyperspace would cause a large amount of problems in the field of current control, as essentially wouldn't you be pretty much wiping out all know logic behind electronics the minute you pulled the lever?

What theory have you come up with? Are you alluding to hyperspace fucking around with time?

FU PICARD · Post by **FU PICARD** » 2003-07-02 10:26am

It would fuck around with time would it not?

But I don't really have a theory yet as I:

A)Haven't traveled at Hyperspace Speeds (My car just can't do it)

B)Don't quite comprehend the ramifications of exceeding the speed of light, but has it not been said that it would alter the aging process?

I am more concerned with the magnetics involved in electricity (ie polarity) and if/how if would be altered as something as large as a deathstar would have it's OWN magnetic field and how travelling in such means as hyperspace would alter the current arc. (Maybe Mike can help on this?)

But like I said I am just looking into it, it will be a while before I come up with a theory

Thanks

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-02 11:31am

FU, to me you do not seem to know how SW Hyperspace travel works.

Go to Saxton's Star Wars Technical Commentaries and read the Hysperspace section.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-07-02 11:42am

FU PICARD wrote:It would fuck around with time would it not?

Time relative to people inside a ship travelling at hyperspeed flows as it should, so it's correct to assume this is the case for circuits too.

FU PICARD wrote: But I don't really have a theory yet as I:

A)Haven't traveled at Hyperspace Speeds (My car just can't do it)

Get a new car.

FU PICARD wrote: B)Don't quite comprehend the ramifications of exceeding the speed of light, but has it not been said that it would alter the aging process?

As you approach the speed of light, you start to put on weight, and time slows down. Say you did a lap of our solar system close to the speed of light. When you get back home, you'll go through the same shit that little boy in that movie with the funky UFO with the Beach Boys song goes through.

You can't go faster then light however, so no ramifications for something which isn't possible.

FU PICARD wrote: I am more concerned with the magnetics involved in electricity (ie polarity) and if/how if would be altered as something as large as a deathstar would have it's OWN magnetic field and how travelling in such means as hyperspace would alter the current arc. (Maybe Mike can help on this?)

See my first paragraph above.

FU PICARD · Post by **FU PICARD** » 2003-07-02 12:24pm

Thanks for the info, I will look into Claxton's site

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-02 12:26pm

Saxton...

FU PICARD · Post by **FU PICARD** » 2003-07-02 12:29pm

For pointing out my error(s) as i am at work I really don't have time to proof read my entire thread.

On another point, STOP posting remarks that don't help in all of my posts, go find something better to do or something. (Not flaming, just don't need a second VP telling me what to do every six seconds)

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-07-02 01:19pm

FU PICARD wrote:For pointing out my error(s) as i am at work I really don't have time to proof read my entire thread.

On another point, STOP posting remarks that don't help in all of my posts, go find something better to do or something. (Not flaming, just don't need a second VP telling me what to do every six seconds)

Reeelllllaaaaax.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-07-02 02:13pm

Its funny that Trekkies make fun of Star Wars because they use wires to transfer energy around the ship when the thing that has killed more Redshirts (at least after TNG) has been exploding Plasma Conduits! Also shoot hot plasma all over the ship can't be as efficient as a simple wire. Even if you leave out the heat losses if there is a breach in the line there will be a major los of power to all systems down the line as now most(if not all) of the energy transfering material ends up coming out of the breach!

Traceroute · Post by **Traceroute** » 2003-07-02 05:24pm

I doubt the whole thing is standard 20th century wiring, but if it works, why not? The empire likely has better materials for insulation and transmission, so attenuation over long distance is probably negligible.

That, and standard wiring for even something like a modern aircraft carrier seems a herculean task (and it is), but we do it. The death star probably has maintenance bots running through the wiring conduits as well, to make sure everything stays in good condition. (OK, that's just thrown in for spice, it's a neat idea, though.)

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-07-02 05:50pm

What's even funnier is that on the Constitution-class ships, they used TRANSISTORS, and what looked to be vacuum bulbs! Anyone have a screenshot of that episode where Uhura was working on the comm station through the access panel near the floor? I can't remember the name of the episode, but Spock was in charge. That Which Survives?" "Gamesters of Triskelion"?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-07-02 06:01pm

Traceroute wrote:I doubt the whole thing is standard 20th century wiring, but if it works, why not? The empire likely has better materials for insulation and transmission, so attenuation over long distance is probably negligible.

This is true. The Empire would certainly have access to Room temperature Super Conducters. With super conductor there are (theoretically) no losses as the energy is transfered down the line. These materials would make using normal cables obsolete. To put it this way whatever modern company can perfect this technology would corner the market on power line sales.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-02 06:31pm

Isolder74 wrote:The Empire would certainly have access to Room temperature Super Conducters.

We don't even know if room-temperature superconducters are possible, and you say that the Empire certainly possesses them? By no means am I saying they don't, but you can't just grant them technology with no basis in official or canon.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-07-02 06:45pm

Lord Poe wrote:What's even funnier is that on the Constitution-class ships, they used TRANSISTORS, and what looked to be vacuum bulbs! Anyone have a screenshot of that episode where Uhura was working on the comm station through the access panel near the floor? I can't remember the name of the episode, but Spock was in charge. That Which Survives?" "Gamesters of Triskelion"?

Ha! Thats nothing! Spock's station has a print-out thingy by the hood. You know, like the ones they had in the 50's and 60's.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-07-02 11:07pm

Howedar wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:The Empire would certainly have access to Room temperature Super Conducters.
We don't even know if room-temperature superconducters are possible, and you say that the Empire certainly possesses them? By no means am I saying they don't, but you can't just grant them technology with no basis in official or canon.

If they have turbolasers you would think this one would be child's play BTW 10 years ago they didn't think Liguid Nitrogen Superconductors were possible

it seems you have shot me in the foot on that one but since they have only one major power source for the Death Star they must have better "wires" then we do right now

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-07-02 11:45pm

Howedar wrote: We don't even know if room-temperature superconducters are possible, and you say that the Empire certainly possesses them? By no means am I saying they don't, but you can't just grant them technology with no basis in official or canon.

Actually we have very expensive and completely unapplied but working RTSCs made out of diamond.

Traceroute · Post by **Traceroute** » 2003-07-03 12:06am

kojikun wrote:Actually we have very expensive and completely unapplied but working RTSCs made out of diamond.

Sweet! With the Empire's overwhelming industrial capacity, I'm sure the could manufacture enough. Though depending on the manufacturing process, they may have started on fabricating enough of it to wire the DS quite some time before the rest of the DS was built.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-07-03 12:13am

Traceroute wrote: Sweet! With the Empire's overwhelming industrial capacity, I'm sure the could manufacture enough. Though depending on the manufacturing process, they may have started on fabricating enough of it to wire the DS quite some time before the rest of the DS was built.

With current warships some components can require several years lead-time. However we know the Death Star II was built with only raw materials being shipped to the site and it's likely that was also true of the original Death Star. The Empires resources are simply vast.

FU PICARD · Post by **FU PICARD** » 2003-07-03 07:56am

There is really nothing that requires several years lead time (I am in the business and deal with NASA and Northrup Grumman) The longest lead time you will see are for ASIC's and you can look at waiting 14-18 weeks + whatever standard production leadtime is associated with the units. The government will not tolerate excessive lead times and will get involved if need be, so I imagine the empire would have even less tolerance than that. Now on the other hand, some grown crystals take as long as 6 months but it is not wise to spec them out on production units, in the future I am sure the process for growing said crystals has been refined to the nth degree.

i would think the empire has no real lead time issues, I would think that they stock years worth of supplies at once, as I doubt they worry about inventory tax.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-07-04 09:13pm

FU PICARD wrote:There is really nothing that requires several years lead time (I am in the business and deal with NASA and Northrup Grumman)

You might know electronics; you clearly don’t know shit about anything else. Turbines, propellers, reduction gears and many other components all take several years to build for major warships.

Phyre · Post by **Phyre** » 2003-07-05 04:10pm

Dude, the ships themselves don't take that long to make. And it takes several months, if that, for a turbine to be made. They don't work on one piece at a time.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-07-05 04:46pm

Phyre wrote:Dude, the ships themselves don't take that long to make. And it takes several months, if that, for a turbine to be made. They don't work on one piece at a time.

Standard time of construction for a steel ship is from 3 to 5 years.

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2003-07-05 05:23pm

FU PICARD. Stick with electronics.

A chip, is a chip, is a chip. Making chips is EASY.
A board is a board.
Blank boards, and blank "wafers" are stocked, in standard sizes.
Design, is done on computers, and transfered to the etching machines, and doping machines, and assembling machines.. The boards don't have to vary in composition, as temperature, humidty, and physical stress on the components varies rarely, COMPARED to their MECHANICAL COUNTERPART. "Brains" seldom get exposed to the extremes that "sensors," and "servos" do, much less "frames." They only have to work, not "survive."

Hard parts, vary in size, and OPERATIONAL ENVIRONMENT! From small gears that work at room temperature, to shafts and hinges that work at hundreds of degrees, to valves for liquid nitrogen.

Sometimes YEARS are spent, finding the right material that will last in extremes.
Like turbine blades, rocket nozzles, gun barrels, and coolant pumps all operate in drasticly different conditions.
Many high tech parts, take very long to machine, as they are made of material that is difficult to machine, period. (Titatium anyone?)
They must also be very paranoid careful about EACH of the HUNDREDS of separate machining operations, because one mistake, and they lose not only this step, but the previous 99, and the considerable cost of the the raw material, in addition to the wasted machine shop time on the junked part.
My best friend worked at a machine shop, making parts for the B-1. The hinge that the swing wing articulated on, to be specific. They would use 10 passes on the milling machine, where one would do, to reduce the chance of ruining a 20k$ billet, on ONE mistake. At the point when my bud would get to the hinge, 50k$ had alredy been spent on this yet unfinished part.

Then there is the TESTING, and perhaps revision.

Chips and boards, are made of much cheaper raw material, and if you get a bad chip, fuck it, throw it in the hopper. Start over on an other run, if you get too many bad ones per lot. A weeks worth of labour, mostly robotic.

The bigest difference, between chips and hard parts, is SIZE.
Some big parts require you to retool a factory, and make tools, to make tools, to make parts. Also, there are only so MANY Uber class macine tools, that can handle pieces of work bigger than a meter in diameter, and their time is booked YEARS in advance. You fuck up your part, and miss your opening slot for the machine in question, and you will wait a long time until you get an other crack at it.

Try and buy an oil refinery some time. It will be years, no matter what the budget you work with. GET IN LINE, we are busy, and your parts are on back order.
The bigger the part, or finished product it goes to, the longer it takes to make, and the less likely a production run is done, rather than a one of a kind.
Bulldozers don't come off the assebly line, 1 a minute, like passenger cars.
Dump trucks are ordered before built. Some things are not "stocked."
Ships take years to physicaly construct.

EmperorChrostas the Cruel · Post by **EmperorChrostas the Cruel** » 2003-07-05 06:01pm

Phyre, you must be thinking of the victory ships during WW2. These prefab kleenex ships, were assebled in the dry dock, but built in inland factories. They were assebled in six months. They also broke into pieces when stressed. (Torpedo, bad weather.) Keels made in pieces and assembled=broken back ship.
This modular design is no longer used. For obvious reasons.
Ships are built from the keel up. Even "The Voyager of the Sea," cruise ship only used the prefab construction on the superstrucure. (The part ABOVE the waterline.)

Also, no complete ship can be said to be finished in less time than it takes to make the last part.

If it takes 4 years to make that part, the ship will take a minimum of 4 years.
These parts are made to order, and NOT stocked.
You don't think International harvester makes combines, for the showroom, in stock, just in case a farmer wants to buy one?

Ships are the same way. They don't START building them, until you pay for them. Small BOATS are a different matter.

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The electronics of Star Wars

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