Star Trek federation clearly wins

[Lonestar]

He's dead people, stop shooting teh corpse!

[South Park Mortician] Yes Sir, someone is probaly having sex with the Corpse right now. And this is what it'll sound like: ::hand squished in jar of vaseline:: [/SP Mortician]

[justifier]

This thread has brought a spark to my day, thank god for idiots like you Sar2!

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

Damn! I missed out on the fun! I usually refrain from debates, but when the opposing arguments are that weak, I wouldn't mind attempting. Oh well, all I can hope for now is for someone like him to come around in the future.

[His Divine Shadow]

This is my first post, my first day visiting this site and reading it. I have not read many posts either. I agree that the Empire from Star Wars has more fire power but it just could not beat the Star Trek Federation. The Empire has too many inept soldiers.

Let's see...
Empire - Many many inept soldiers in NBC armor
ST:UFP - Not as many just as if not more inept soldiers(redshirts) in pajamas.

Anyway you really can't use the "they're bad guys, so they'll loose" argument, the roman empire where conquerors and they conquered Gaul, even though they where the good guys, the Soviets took over alot of states against their will, again the bad guys win.
It's not a realistic way to measure them, is it?

[His Divine Shadow]

I am amazed at how fast my post was replied to! I have been reading more and more from this site and it appears to be an anti-StarTrek site! Now I see it really does not matter what my opinion is.

You're right in a way, opinion matters less than evidence here, all we respect is evidence and logic and common sense.

You cannot compare the French fighting the Nazis with the Federation fighting the Empire. In the real world you cannot just label one group as a villain and one group as a hero.

But why can you do that with the UFP, what makes them heros? I think the UFP isn't as good as you say either, look at their treatment of the people in the demilitarized zone, and their prime-directive stuff, and what they did with B2 in Nemesis.

First of all, both Star Trek and Star Wars are not real so it does matter who is the 'villain' and who is the 'hero'. George Lucas and Gene Roddenberry would both agree that the Empire is the villain. You do not write fictional stories and have the villains win.

Why not? Alot of good stories are those that challenge the unoriginal good guys always win concept.

Is the main reason for this site is to bash Star Trek?

Not really no, if you read the main page it would say that the site is written from the made up POV of an imperial officer writing a document on the tactial capabilities of the federation and comparing them to his, other things include attacking trolls and stupid anti-scientific stuff done in the show itself, if youlook around you'd see alot of people loathe the new SW movies and the SW:EU too.
It's hardly a ST sucks site.

[His Divine Shadow]

You all have your opinion and I have mine.

Ah yes, the universal "agree to disagree" line. Works for any conceivable argument, in any conceivable situation, because it basically says nothing.

Whats that old saying now again? "Talking is silver but silence is gold"

[Xisiqomelir]

The warlords will not dissolve into civil war if they have a common enemy. Whitness Mao Zedong and Chiang Kai Shek during WW2.

Poor example. Even after the Japanese began their general invasion of China in 1937 and defeated a fair sized nationalist army at Shanghai Chiang Kai Shek planned to continue his offensive against the communists. He only stopped when his own troops arrested him and demanded that he turn the full weight of the army against Japan.

"The Japanese are a disease of the skin, the Communists are a disease of the heart"

[Vexx]

Empire - Many many inept soldiers in NBC armor

All they need is anti-spear-and-rocks-thrown-by-little-teddy-bears armor

ST:UFP - Not as many just as if not more inept soldiers(redshirts) in pajamas.

I think it's time to throw away the redshirt myth! EVERYONE knows redshirts are command officers now..

You know what really sucked?

The Cardassians in TNG were awesome. They had these big jagged suits of armor. Then in DS9 they're reduced to silly grey shoulder-exhaggerating linen-closet-rejected ninny clothes.

[Darth Servo]

Empire - Many many inept soldiers in NBC armor

All they need is anti-spear-and-rocks-thrown-by-little-teddy-bears armor

"teddybears" who can throw 30 lb rocks around as if they were made out of styrofoam proving they are much stronger than humans.

ST:UFP - Not as many just as if not more inept soldiers(redshirts) in pajamas.

I think it's time to throw away the redshirt myth! EVERYONE knows redshirts are command officers now..

The few that survived that is. Make what ever criticisms you want about the poor effectiveness of stormtrooper armor. Its STILL better than the NON-EXISTANT armor worn by fed troops.

You know what really sucked?

Most Trekkie arguments?

The Cardassians in TNG were awesome. They had these big jagged suits of armor. Then in DS9 they're reduced to silly grey shoulder-exhaggerating linen-closet-rejected ninny clothes.

Too bad none of them wore helmets proving that even in the "better days" of TNG, a biological/chemical/nuclear radiation attack would still wipe out the best Trek soldiers w/o doing squat to Imperial troops.

[His Divine Shadow]

All they need is anti-spear-and-rocks-thrown-by-little-teddy-bears armor

You know, no spear or arrow penetrated any stormie armor anywhere, sure they where knocked to the ground by the rocks but yeah, thats alot of concussive force and then factor in balance and such, the armor didn't matter, the person inside did.
And I doubt the redshirts are gonna be throwing bigass rocks at stormies instead of using their dustbusters.

[Vexx]

By the look of things, throwing big rocks wouldn't be that much of a step backwards from the usual Fed armament...

And yes Stormtrooper armour is a hell of a lot better than pajamas. You won't see Stormies dying from shrapnel from a shot that lands 5 feet away.

Too bad none of them wore helmets proving that even in the "better days" of TNG, a biological/chemical/nuclear radiation attack would still wipe out the best Trek soldiers w/o doing squat to Imperial troops.

Helmet schmelmet. It still looked cool.

Not as cool as Imperial speederbike guys though.

Hm.. here's an idea. Say you have a squad of 10 or so Stormtroopers and a squad of 10 Starfleet troops. How would that go? And no "Stormtroopers slaughter the Feds". They're just run-of-the-mill Fed troops and Stormtroops, with standard armament (phasers and blasters).

I think it would be pretty even. The Stormtroopers would definately have eq and armament advantage, but Fed troops have been shown firing at long ranges and their accuracy isn't bad (Worf shooting down those flying things in ST:I). Ehh its touch and go.

[omegaLancer]

Long range accurately of Starfleet personnel?

Other than Worf, I doubt that the standard Starfleet personnel would stand a chance in a shoot out with a storm trooper.

There is no sights on a phaser, compare to the electronic sight on SW weapons that are link to Storm trooper helmet. So in an actual fire fight we have redshirt pick off like flies.

[Traceroute]

Especially since we saw Worf specifically spending time in target practice when he wasn't on duty. A lot of starfleet officers might have done that, but Worf was the only one that mentioned it.

[Isolder74]

Especially since we saw Worf specifically spending time in target practice when he wasn't on duty. A lot of starfleet officers might have done that, but Worf was the only one that mentioned it.

Didn't do him any good when a Feringi Beamed onto the Bridge in Rascals!

[Traceroute]

That's rather annoying. The target practice he was doing was on the holodeck, and included some reflex training. (Little moving, glowing targets popping out of nowhere).

[neoolong]

Especially since we saw Worf specifically spending time in target practice when he wasn't on duty. A lot of starfleet officers might have done that, but Worf was the only one that mentioned it.

Actually I believe that they have mandatory practice. Hoshi went through it on the Enterprise.

It was a floating cube that spun around and she had to shoot it. She didn't do that well though.

[Vexx]

Long range accurately of Starfleet personnel?

Other than Worf, I doubt that the standard Starfleet personnel would stand a chance in a shoot out with a storm trooper.

There is no sights on a phaser, compare to the electronic sight on SW weapons that are link to Storm trooper helmet. So in an actual fire fight we have redshirt pick off like flies.

I guess Obi-wan was disrupting these sites at Mos Eisleys when the troopers couldn't hit Han running to his ship. Or in the Death Star when they couldn't hit the broad side of an AT-AT inside a cramped jail blockhouse, with a big huge 7 foot tall wookie running around.

[Typhonis 1]

more like in Mos Eisley the troopers were firing gfrom the hip and missing by inches, Death Star they were ordered not to hit since Tarkin and Vader wanted them to escape "My lord we accidentally killed the ARRRRGLLLE"

Confusion since they had two stromtroopers open up on them

[Darth Servo]

By the look of things, throwing big rocks wouldn't be that much of a step backwards from the usual Fed armament...

When was the last time YOU tried hurling a 30 pound rock? You can't jsut say that a human will be able to match the Ewoks without taking the SIZE of the rock into consideration.

And yes Stormtrooper armour is a hell of a lot better than pajamas. You won't see Stormies dying from shrapnel from a shot that lands 5 feet away.

Which is one of the BIG reasons the Stormtroopers will win against Fed troops.

Too bad none of them wore helmets proving that even in the "better days" of TNG, a biological/chemical/nuclear radiation attack would still wipe out the best Trek soldiers w/o doing squat to Imperial troops.

Helmet schmelmet. It still looked cool.

Looking cool doesn't help you in a fight. Looking cool doesn't protect you from bacterial, virii, nerve gas, radiation, etc.

Hm.. here's an idea. Say you have a squad of 10 or so Stormtroopers and a squad of 10 Starfleet troops. How would that go? And no "Stormtroopers slaughter the Feds". They're just run-of-the-mill Fed troops and Stormtroops, with standard armament (phasers and blasters).

I think it would be pretty even. The Stormtroopers would definately have eq and armament advantage, but Fed troops have been shown firing at long ranges and their accuracy isn't bad (Worf shooting down those flying things in ST:I). Ehh its touch and go.

I thought you said "run-of-the-mill Fed troops" Since when is Worf "run-of-the-mill"?

The stormtroopers win it easy since a simple nerve gas grenade (which IS part of standard Stormtrooper equipment) will kill all the fed troops w/o harming the Imperials at all.

[Darth Servo]

I guess Obi-wan was disrupting these sites at Mos Eisleys when the troopers couldn't hit Han running to his ship.

Prove that the Stormtroopers were shooting at Han and NOT the Falcon, in light of the fact that they did NOT know that Han was the pilot.

Stormtrooper: "Stop that SHIP! Blast em"

Fact: they were shooting at the ship, not Han.

Or in the Death Star when they couldn't hit the broad side of an AT-AT inside a cramped jail blockhouse, with a big huge 7 foot tall wookie running around.

When you are under orders to "let them go" you do NOT shoot to hit.

Right after the Falcon is brought on board the DS.
Imp officer: "We've captured a freighter entering the remains of the Alderaan system. Its markings match those of a ship that blasted its way out of Mos Eisly.
Vader: "They must be trying to return the stolen plans to the princess. She may yet be of some use to us."

Tell me, if Vader believed the stolen plans were ON BOARD the DS, what possible other use could the princess be besides tracking her back to the rebel base?

After Obi-wan has finished turning off the tractor beam, two Stormies are conversing--

ST1: "Do you know whats going on?"
ST2: "Maybe its another drill."

You do NOT shoot to kill in a drill. If the Stormies were under orders to kill the rebels, there would be no question about "what was going on". They would have known that there were intruders on board that were to be eilminated.

[Darth Servo]

That's rather annoying. The target practice he was doing was on the holodeck, and included some reflex training. (Little moving, glowing targets popping out of nowhere).

And GUINAN easily beat him. So much for his "sharpshooting".

[Traceroute]

That's rather annoying. The target practice he was doing was on the holodeck, and included some reflex training. (Little moving, glowing targets popping out of nowhere).

And GUINAN easily beat him. So much for his "sharpshooting".

True, but then again we know that Guinan has been around since at least the mid 1800s (Time's Arrow), so she has had a LOT more practice.

[Darth Servo]

True, but then again we know that Guinan has been around since at least the mid 1800s (Time's Arrow), so she has had a LOT more practice.

Ladies didn't usually handle guns in the 1800's. Plus, her full time job is a tending bar. Worf's full time job is head of security. Who SHOULD be putting in more time on the firing range?

[Slartibartfast]

Long range accurately of Starfleet personnel?

Other than Worf, I doubt that the standard Starfleet personnel would stand a chance in a shoot out with a storm trooper.

Unless the Stormtrooper ducks, like that Ferengi in that episode where 3 ferengi took over the whole ship.

There is no sights on a phaser, compare to the electronic sight on SW weapons that are link to Storm trooper helmet. So in an actual fire fight we have redshirt pick off like flies.[/quote]

[Master of Ossus]

The fact that Guinan has been around the block a few times is more or less irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion. She is older than the phaser they were using, and while some marksmanship skills would be transferable from weapon to weapon, one would still need to practice a lot with that particular phaser model prior to use.

Guinan's ability to handily defeat Worf was inexcusable, from a security perspective.