"Bring em on"?!

[Vympel]

Make what you will of this article, but I thought the author was in a position to know and anyone could make the following criticism

Yesterday, when I read that US Commander-in-Chief George W. Bush, in a moment of blustering arm-chair machismo, sent a message to the 'non-existent' Iraqi guerrillas to "bring 'em on," the first image in my mind was a 20-year-old soldier in an ever-more-fragile marriage, who'd been away from home for 8 months. He participated in the initial invasion, and was told he'd be home for the 4th of July. He has a newfound familiarity with corpses, and everything he thought he knew last year is now under revision. He is sent out into the streets of Fallujah (or some other city), where he has already been shot at once or twice with automatic weapons or an RPG, and his nerves are raw. He is wearing Kevlar and ceramic body armor, a Kevlar helmet, a load carrying harness with ammunition, grenades, flex-cuffs, first-aid gear, water, and assorted other paraphernalia. His weapon weighs seven pounds, ten with a double magazine. His boots are bloused, and his long-sleeve shirt is buttoned at the wrist. It is between 100-110 degrees Fahrenheit at midday. He's been eating MRE's three times a day, when he has an appetite in this heat, and even his urine is beginning to smell like preservatives. Mosquitoes and sand flies plague him in the evenings, and he probably pulls a guard shift every night, never sleeping straight through. He and his comrades are beginning to get on each others' nerves. The rumors of 'going-home, not-going-home' are keeping him on an emotional roller coaster. Directives from on high are contradictory, confusing, and often stupid. The whole population seems hostile to him and he is developing a deep animosity for Iraq and all its people--as well as for official narratives.

This is the lad who will hear from someone that George W. Bush, dressed in a suit with a belly full of rich food, just hurled a manly taunt from a 72-degree studio at the 'non-existent' Iraqi resistance.

Bring em on?

Really. This is probably the dumbest thing, IMO, Bush has ever said with regards to foreign policy. Who the fuck is this guy? This is even more pathetic than when he strutted about in his flight suit on a supercarrier as the open to his re-election campaign.

The gall to exhort enemy guerillas to attack your soldiers- who aregetting regularly shot at with small arms, RPGs, mortars, and grenades ... that's just fucked. Who the fuck is he?

[BoredShirtless]

George W. Bush is either:
1. Morally bankrupt.
2. Very naive.
3. Both of the above

[HemlockGrey]

When I heard of this my only real thought was "George, you fucking idiot"

There needs to be another hundred thousand men in Iraq to fully quell the resistance. Except the damn Adminstration FIRES anyone who suggests this, and if they actually followed through, they'd have to admit to making a mistake.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Wonders if Ozzy would go play "War Pigs" if he gets invited to the White House like he did last year.

[Joe]

Guy needs to have someone seriously evaluate the consequences of his actions, since he is not up to the job, apparently.

[Vympel]

When I heard of this my only real thought was "George, you fucking idiot"

There needs to be another hundred thousand men in Iraq to fully quell the resistance. Except the damn Adminstration FIRES anyone who suggests this, and if they actually followed through, they'd have to admit to making a mistake.

It was Army Chief of Staff Shinseki who made that correct (200,000 men) statement, did he not? Meanwhile, influential 'cabal' members like Richard Perle were earnestly echoing their beliefs that the force could quickly be drawn down to a paltry 50,000 men, because American forces would be greeted as liberators, of course, and Dick Cheney was echoing this view.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

He's a genius. We'll casually defeat the last holdouts as the idiots probably come out to fight on hearing this, or something equally stupid.

Vympel, have you even bothered to plot where the attacks are occuring?

[Vympel]

He's a genius. We'll casually defeat the last holdouts as the idiots probably come out to fight on hearing this, or something equally stupid.

Yes Duchess, they're all Ba'athist hold-outs

Anyway, the attackers have had much success with their tactics in terms of the casualty exchange (often, the attackers dissapear into the population), I see no reason why they'd change their tactics in response to what that fucking idiot says.

Vympel, have you even bothered to plot where the attacks are occuring?

Mostly the Sunni areas, though the Brits copped shit in a Shi'ite city, and Amis have copped shit in Shi'ite areas of Baghdad- though only attacks where US soldiers are killed/wounded are reported, so this could of course be skewed.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Yes Duchess, they're all Ba'athist hold-outs

Almost certainly. Some indications--though possibly only a rumour--are that half of the combat deaths since the President declared major operations to be over have been caused by a single sniper.

Mostly the Sunni areas, though the Brits copped shit in a Shi'ite city, and Amis have copped shit in Shi'ite areas of Baghdad.

To be precise, in a roughly 50mi by 25mi region bordered by the Tigris and the Euphrates, from Fallujah in the west, to Al-Khalis in the east, to Balad in the north, to Baghdad in the south--discounting an attack to Chay Khanah to the north, which is anomalous. The area is Sunni, is geographically compact, and two-thirds of the attacks have taken place in Baghdad itself. "Resistance," as it were, is effectually concentrated within Baghdad and an area about the size of an American county.

Iraq is displeased with us, huh?

[Vympel]

Almost certainly. Some indications--though possibly only a rumour--are that half of the combat deaths since the President declared major operations to be over have been caused by a single sniper.

A bullshit rumor. Do mosey on over to any casualty listing and you can see how most of the soldiers have died. RPG or grenade attacks, with the occasional shooting (close range) thrown in. Only a handful of sniper attacks, if more than say two.

To be precise, in a roughly 50mi by 25mi region bordered by the Tigris and the Euphrates, from Fallujah in the west, to Al-Khalis in the east, to Balad in the north, to Baghdad in the south--discounting an attack to Chay Khanah to the north, which is anomalous. The area is Sunni, is geographically compact, and two-thirds of the attacks have taken place in Baghdad itself. "Resistance," as it were, is effectually concentrated within Baghdad and an area about the size of an American county.

Iraq is displeased with us, huh?

Considering that Baghdad is the capital city and that the rest of Iraq is either Kurd or Shi'ite, I'd say that's pretty fucking significant that rougly a quarter of the population outright despises you, and even the Shi'ites want you fucking gone (since pretty much the day the war supposedly ended)- and especially out of their homes (which 6 dead British soldiers can attest to). It's your assertion that the Iraqis are PLEASED with their lot? The majority opinion is- get the fuck out.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

A bullshit rumor. Do mosey on over to any casualty listing and you can see how most of the soldiers have died. RPG or grenade attacks, with the occasional shooting (close range) thrown in. Only a handful of sniper attacks, if more than say two.

I count at least seven or eight fatal attacks since 1 May that are within a geographical area, and using the small arms, so that they might have been perpetrated by the same person, though one grants it to be rather unlikely, since the method changes depending on the attack.

Considering that Baghdad is the capital city and that the rest of Iraq is either Kurd or Shi'ite, I'd say that's pretty fucking significant that rougly a quarter of the population outright despises you, and even the Shi'ites want you fucking gone (since pretty much the day the war supposedly ended)- and especially out of their homes (which 6 dead British soldiers can attest to). It's your assertion that the Iraqis are PLEASED with their lot? The majority opinion is- get the fuck out.

It seems now that the Majar incident is supported in some fashion by Iran, or at least there are reports of Iranian involvement, which, considering the lack of further attacks on the British forces in the south, makes me wonder about its exact causation, indeed.

As for Baghdad, it depends on the neighbourhood--in some the troops get along with the people very well. That, combined with the relative lack of violence in Sunni areas to the east of Baghdad in Diyala province, and in the western desert, shows a far more complex situation is in existence than simple hatred for the "occupying" powers.

[SPOOFE]

Since when are hollow attempts at primping up one's country a new thing? Methinks the Anti-Bushies are looking way too hard to find new things to get angry about.

[MKSheppard]

So? The sooner these morons come out and get shot to pieces for attacking
US forces, the better.

Callous as it may sound, it may be actually better for us in the long run,
as opposed to the short run.

[MKSheppard]

Reading this, it sounds like this writer has some real issues with
his vietnam-era service and/or he's full of shit about his supposed
service in SF:

His boots are bloused, and his long-sleeve shirt is buttoned at the wrist. It is between 100-110 degrees Fahrenheit at midday.

What sort of combat unit actually follows parade-ground inspection rules?

I'm sure the Russians in Chechenya bloused and starched their BDUs as
they got ready to fight the Guerillas

[weemadando]

What sort of combat unit actually follows parade-ground inspection rules? :roll:

I'm sure the Russians in Chechenya bloused and starched their BDUs as
they got ready to fight the Guerillas :roll:

Fallout from Afghanistan, they realised that soldiers who don't look prim and proper on the 6 o'clock news aren't a good media tool. And with reporters all over the place in Iraq they want their troops to look tidy and nice for the cameras.

[Vympel]

What sort of combat unit actually follows parade-ground inspection rules?

Shep, if you've watched the news, I bet you'll hardly ever see one soldier with his sleeves rolled up. I don't know how they stand the heat.

I'm sure the Russians in Chechenya bloused and starched their BDUs as
they got ready to fight the Guerillas

That's coz they don't give a toss what the media thinks

[Sea Skimmer]

Shep, if you've watched the news, I bet you'll hardly ever see one soldier with his sleeves rolled up. I don't know how they stand the heat.

Current US Army uniforms are meant to keep you cool via massive amounts of sweat.

[Dark Hellion]

Shouldn't he have told the guerillas to bring IT on. If he was going to say bring em on, he should have been adressing the guerilla leaders.
Such blatant misuse of perfectly good slang should not go unpunished.

[Andrew J.]

Can the guerillas even hear that message? They probably don't carry around satellite receivers, do they?

[Vympel]

Can the guerillas even hear that message? They probably don't carry around satellite receivers, do they?

Well, it's not like they're out in camps plotting- in all liklihood they're at home in Baghdad eating dinner or something, RPG tucked in the corner.

Of course, that's besides the point- it's the display of bravado and callousness with the lives of the soldiers under his command (where, unlike a general, he's nowhere near the combat zone) that rubbed everyone the wrong way.

[Solauren]

If they want to end the fighting in Iraq, then need to send in more soliders (200,000 - 500,000), place an entire town under arrest, and search every house, and arrest anyone with weapons/explosives.

Then, after the city is disarmed, put soliders on duty running gas and power and so forth until the locals are back up to doing it

Repeat for all cities.

[Axis Kast]

I agree that the Pentagon is mistaken in espousing a “light army” concept with fewer basic ground troops and more high-technology airborne equipment. Such force reconstruction will ensure only that we win battles, not occupations. While I stand fully behind digitalization of the battlefield and new movement toward favoritism of air-mobile units, Rumsfeld is shooting himself in the foot by abandoning entirely the heavy doctrine of earlier days. Heavy, main battle tanks still have a place at war. So does the average infantryman trained to fight primarily on his feet. But I digress.

Unfortunately, there is in fact something to be said in Rumsfeld’s favor: a smaller military cuts down on costs the United States at this moment struggles to afford – not to mention that sending more troops to Iraq at this point in time would leave us severely thinned-out. Roughly half the active military is in the Middle East right now. We’re talking about a huge number of men already (outside the trouble brewing in North Korea and the hubbub over Liberia). We’re really between a rock and a hard place.

[jegs2]

Fallout from Afghanistan, they realised that soldiers who don't look prim and proper on the 6 o'clock news aren't a good media tool. And with reporters all over the place in Iraq they want their troops to look tidy and nice for the cameras.

Actually, it's part of the TACSOP or whichever standards are implemented by the unit commander -- for 3ID, it's called Marne Standards. As the heat increases, those standards will be weighed against SOP and safety concerns. Soldiers may be allowed to wear unbloused boots, and they will certainly be required to increase their fluid intake. Fortunately, most soldiers now carry new gear which includes Camel-Backs -- a much more effective way to carry water IMO.

On the ongoing guerilla war in Iraq, it was to be expected. That it wasn't advertised to the public was also to be expected. "We will face an extensive guerilla war, losing hundreds of soldiers before order is fully restored," doesn't sell well in the US press. The Moslims are driven by their clerics, so the Muslim clerics are the key -- if we can somehow win them over, we'll see a shift in support in Iraq. Moreover, there are Baathist holdouts who are intent on demonstrating the inablility of US forces to maintain order and protect the people. The CLF at the JRTC has been doing just that for years, as has the OPFOR at the NTC, so US soldiers do receive training on those tactics, although perhaps not to the degree they should.

On Bush's comment, "Bring 'em on!" I think that was an attempt to demonstrate US will in Iraq. Whether or not it is effective or detrimental remains to be seen...

[NecronLord]

Now there's overconfidence.

And of course, those of you who say that they're going ot hear shrubby's message, turn red in the face and charge toward the nearest US soldier shouting "Jihad Jihad Jihad" are seriously under-estimating the enemy. If they were that stupid and easily goaded, they'd be dead already.

[LT.Hit-Man]

George W. Bush is either:
1. Morally bankrupt.
2. Very naive.
3. Both of the above

4.Should be shot for being a dickhead.
5.Should be decked out as the same way as gurnt that was mentioned in the opening post of this post without his bodyguards and what not and put his dumb ass out on the front lines.