D&D - any advice here?

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-05 04:55am

What is all this talk of sun elves and gray elves?? My 3rd edition Player's Handbook doesn't list any special rules about these sub-types of elves. (It does mention gray, wild and drow elves - but it doesn't say much else about them except for drow being "evil and subterranean" and the chapter on abilities implies that gray elves are even weaker than ordinary elves)

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2003-07-05 12:33pm

There is so many kinds of elfs in tsr world that is beyond fun.
But usually the worlds have one high elf, one normal elf, one wood elf and dark elf...But that is just desnecessary bonus search. PHB is more than enough.
There is something about a starting player: Pick a human. It is hard to find someone good enough to roleplay a elf for real. (i got the impression the dude asking for advice had to get pre-made characters, so no point talking about building the character...). It is hard also to roleplay a dwarf and even halflings. Probally, most starters will end trying something like the LoTR movies...
Other thing is : do not pick evil characters. Try to have a aligment that is similar to the rest of the group. This way you will have to worry less with the futher consequences of your law/chaos, evil/good options and you will avoid conflicts with the group, since your first thing to do is learning how to play.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-05 01:20pm

Igot wrote:There is so many kinds of elfs in tsr world that is beyond fun.
But usually the worlds have one high elf, one normal elf, one wood elf and dark elf...But that is just desnecessary bonus search. PHB is more than enough.

But why doesn't the Player's Handbook say much more than anything about the "basic" elves?

[quote="Igot]There is something about a starting player: Pick a human. It is hard to find someone good enough to roleplay a elf for real. (i got the impression the dude asking for advice had to get pre-made characters, so no point talking about building the character...). It is hard also to roleplay a dwarf and even halflings[/quote]

What if you've read fantasy literature which focuses much upon elven/dwarven/halfling society??

lgot wrote: Other thing is : do not pick evil characters. Try to have a aligment that is similar to the rest of the group. This way you will have to worry less with the futher consequences of your law/chaos, evil/good options and you will avoid conflicts with the group, since your first thing to do is learning how to play.

What about playing a game where all the Player Characters are evil?? This would be an interesting twist.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-07-05 01:31pm

Check the DMG

The Greyelves are like the elitist aristocrats of the elf world...Tey are highly intelligent and have good hand eye coordination, but are weaker, and just as frail...

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-05 01:36pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:The Greyelves are like the elitist aristocrats of the elf world...Tey are highly intelligent and have good hand eye coordination, but are weaker, and just as frail...

Sort of, the elven equivalent of Monty Burns??

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-07-05 01:50pm

No, they arent old and evil... Just haughty and arrogant... more so than normal elves...

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2003-07-05 02:12pm

Simon:

But why doesn't the Player's Handbook say much more than anything about the "basic" elves?

They used to do that for two reasons:
1 - To make the players buy the other books with the different things (the more than basic) with special bonuses
2 - Because this difference sometimes is due some world specific thing, so they leave it to be described in the World Campaings guides.

What if you've read fantasy literature which focuses much upon elven/dwarven/halfling society??

Of course it helps, but still it is hard to deal with that if you are beginer player. Even because if you are using a TSR specific world (Toril, Athas, Krynn, etc) there is details unique to that world.

What about playing a game where all the Player Characters are evil?? This would be an interesting twist.

Do not get it wrongly. It is great to play with evil character, with evil playmates, etc. It is just harder for a beginer to know how to be evil when playing and survive with that or do not spoil all the game.

Sort of, the elven equivalent of Monty Burns??

Think like the high of many worlds elfs are usually more purist elfs, more arrogant and tradicionalists, therefore they gain inteligence rather than dextery alike the normal elf who is supposed to be the most cosmopolitan.
For a starting game, just ignore this and use the normal elf. That is my advice.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-06 03:29am

lgot wrote:Do not get it wrongly. It is great to play with evil character, with evil playmates, etc. It is just harder for a beginer to know how to be evil when playing and survive with that or do not spoil all the game.

I think it's possible for a beginner to play an evil character well. But it's probably hard to play an evil character in a serious way.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-07-06 03:50am

I have a really cool Neutral Evil Elven wizard level 8... oh the evilness...

TheFeniX · Post by **TheFeniX** » 2003-07-06 03:53am

Go go Chaotic Neutral Pixie Theif Prankster. Everyone would have killed him if they could catch him.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-06 11:28am

lgot wrote: Of course it helps, but still it is hard to deal with that if you are beginer player. Even because if you are using a TSR specific world (Toril, Athas, Krynn, etc) there is details unique to that world.

Another question: How many different worlds have been specifically created for D&D?? Aside from those you mentioned, I recall Known World, Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance and of course Castle Greyhawk.

However, most swords-and-sorcery worlds can be adapted for D&D, although some might require rules tweaking. In the Warhammer World, for example, it would be a good idea to discard the alignments totally ... and don't get me started on crossover fantasy/sci-fi worlds. (Weren't there once a D&D setting where the Hawkmen from "Flash Gordon" were a playable race?)

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-07-06 01:56pm

Well... There are the various other regions of Aber Toril... Al quadim, Black Sun... etc... Planescape...

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-07-06 02:35pm

Dark sun-Spell Jammer- Ravenloft

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-07-06 02:45pm

Hmm forgot those.

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2003-07-06 03:00pm

Let me see if all possible "worlds" or boxed sets
Greyhawk, then Forgotten Realms, then Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Birthright, Planescape, Gamma World (a science Fiction one, not related with the others), Mystara (a line of products, never developed together with the others as well) , Al-Qadim and KAra-tur (latelly they are added to Forgotten Realms). Some of them are not really worlds like Ravelonft (a evil dimension) , Planescape(the other planes tied to all prime planes) or Spelljammer (a odd thing, also tied with the other planes, trying to mix some space travel-plane travel) and you may need the other stuff in the end.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-06 03:26pm

That's a lot of fantasy worlds!

Hehe, if I'm ever going to DM a D&D game, I'll think about setting it in H.P. Lovecraft's "Dreamlands" setting, if I can find D&D rules for Night-Gaunts, Shantaks and the likes. (perhaps I'll even throw in a Shoggoth or two)

TheFeniX · Post by **TheFeniX** » 2003-07-06 07:37pm

Planescape > all.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-07-06 07:42pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:That's a lot of fantasy worlds!

Hehe, if I'm ever going to DM a D&D game, I'll think about setting it in H.P. Lovecraft's "Dreamlands" setting, if I can find D&D rules for Night-Gaunts, Shantaks and the likes. (perhaps I'll even throw in a Shoggoth or two)

They've got them... I'm sure I saw something about them in a 1980-something Dragon magazine....

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-07-06 09:36pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:That's a lot of fantasy worlds!

Hehe, if I'm ever going to DM a D&D game, I'll think about setting it in H.P. Lovecraft's "Dreamlands" setting, if I can find D&D rules for Night-Gaunts, Shantaks and the likes. (perhaps I'll even throw in a Shoggoth or two)

That's pretty much Ravenloft. I'd take Cthulu and just alter it for a D&D setting.

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-07-06 09:37pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote: What about playing a game where all the Player Characters are evil?? This would be an interesting twist.

Been there, done that. It doesn't work well. Think about it. Most evil characters think only of themselves. How the hell do you get a group to work together if they're all evil.

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2003-07-06 10:10pm

That is the reason is said it is better to not allow inexperient players to use a evil character...most people just forget that been evil is not the same as being anti-social or lonely...

Kelly Antilles · Post by **Kelly Antilles** » 2003-07-06 10:24pm

Shouldn't let them play anything other than NG or CG. LG is too much of a stretch for a beginner. TN is WAY too hard and the evils are... well, not all that hard, but... you get the idea.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-07 02:37am

Kelly Antilles wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:That's a lot of fantasy worlds!

Hehe, if I'm ever going to DM a D&D game, I'll think about setting it in H.P. Lovecraft's "Dreamlands" setting, if I can find D&D rules for Night-Gaunts, Shantaks and the likes. (perhaps I'll even throw in a Shoggoth or two)
That's pretty much Ravenloft. I'd take Cthulu and just alter it for a D&D setting.

This leads me to ask: How far can you go in strange worlds for using them for D&D??? What about Clive Barker's "Weaveworld"?? Or Zamonia from Walter Moers' novel "The 13½ Lives Of Captain Bluebear" (Can't remember the exact title)? (These are pretty freaked-out worlds)

lgot · Post by **lgot** » 2003-07-07 10:40am

with third edition the D20 rules are being used to everything so the answer is as far as you wish...
They did some attempt with Ravenloft:The Masque of Red death in a 19th century like scenario and a few others: The Hit points system is rather not realistic so In my opinion more close you come to reality, worse D&D works. That is the limit in my opinion...

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-07-07 11:22am

LadyTevar wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:That's a lot of fantasy worlds!

Hehe, if I'm ever going to DM a D&D game, I'll think about setting it in H.P. Lovecraft's "Dreamlands" setting, if I can find D&D rules for Night-Gaunts, Shantaks and the likes. (perhaps I'll even throw in a Shoggoth or two)
They've got them... I'm sure I saw something about them in a 1980-something Dragon magazine....

Actually, there are several of the creatures in the Monster Manual which can fit the definition of "Shoggoths."

Chaos beasts, gibbering mouthers, oozes and PARTICULARLY phasms bear a certain resemblance to shoggoths.