ICS canon issues

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-07-03 02:44pm

Not really any new information here, but I wanted to point out that the latest SW:Insider does not make a correction to the statement in the previous edition that the ICS books were considered canon. It, in fact, makes no mention of that article that I can find.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-07-03 02:50pm

Correction? I don't think it was a mistake. Better phrased as "affirmation or correction" methinks.

Although generally mailed queries to the magazine tend to take more than one issue to appear in print.

This issue does have a handy Clone Wars timeline though, displaying all of the novels/short stories/games/ect. about the Clone Wars in their chronological order in months after Geonosis. Neat stuff.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-07-03 03:13pm

Other than Scooter and his idiot followers, who thought there was a problem with the ICS issue anyways?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-03 04:10pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Correction? I don't think it was a mistake. Better phrased as "affirmation or correction" methinks.

Neither does Ossus. Just clarifying for those who might think that the current SWI would correct an "inaccurate" statement.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-07-03 11:26pm

Question, if ICS is canon does its TLs are lightspeed override the movies obviously STL visual FX?
That is all.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-07-03 11:41pm

Isn't it still considered a lower order of canon than the movies, but still canon? So no?

Traceroute · Post by **Traceroute** » 2003-07-03 11:56pm

Direct observation always trumps text.

For instance, old theories of the formation of the moon couldn't explain why the moon exists as it does, on paper. Needless to say, the moon is a very real object.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-04 12:13am

Dark Hellion wrote:Question, if ICS is canon does its TLs are lightspeed override the movies obviously STL visual FX?
That is all.

No.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-07-04 12:14am

It astounds me how often that its assumed that its IMPOSSIBLE for Saxton to have concluded that TLs were MASSLESS from direct observation from the movies, even if he's asserted as such on his very own website.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-07-04 01:50am

Dark Hellion wrote:Question, if ICS is canon does its TLs are lightspeed override the movies obviously STL visual FX?
That is all.

Well, no if there were a contradiction in the first place. His Divine Shadow has written at length on how there is no contradiction, how Saxton's theory is supported by direct observation of the films (in particular, he uses ESB), and how a single unifying theory can explain all observation.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-07-04 03:38am

The problem is that Saxton didn't just derive his book by watching the movie. Hell, he out and out said this. He spoke with the designers, modellers, FX guys, and a bunch of other muckity-mucks at Skywalker ranch. They didn't just plop him down in a theater, show him the movie once, and then tell him to write his book based on that.

Of course, if these Saxton detractors had an ounce of sense or put a single iota of energy into researching the subject, they'd know that. However, they just plug their ears and chant, "Pulled outta his ass, pulled outta his ass" over and over again, and no amount of convincing will get through the fat in their heads.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-07-04 12:47pm

Umm.... i still am not sure on this. Lightspeed turbolasers of STL turbolasers, i have gotten no's based on movie and yes's based on movie.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-07-04 07:57pm

Umm.... i still am not sure on this. Lightspeed turbolasers of STL turbolasers, i have gotten no's based on movie and yes's based on movie.

So we try to work on a theory that encompasses all the evidence as seen in the movie. We know that the visible bolts don't always cause the damage... however, we also know that the damage doesn't happen at the exact instant that the visible bolt appears.

Frankly, I think HDS's interpretation of events fits the evidence.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-05 02:13am

What is the latest interpretation again?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-07-05 02:31am

Dark Hellion wrote:Umm.... i still am not sure on this. Lightspeed turbolasers of STL turbolasers, i have gotten no's based on movie and yes's based on movie.

It's neither one. The latest explanation involves a visible bolt that is fired along an invisible lightspeed beam.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-07-05 10:40am

Howedar wrote:What is the latest interpretation again?

A sort of charge-up delay. The beam starts out too weak to cause damage, and after a short time period, ramps up to full strength to cause damage. (The velocity of the bolt is chosen so that the bolt usually arrives when the full power burst does.)

There's actually canon support for this in the visuals. HDS has found at least one confirmed instance (and a couple other potentials) where a turbolaser bolt changes direction in midflight exactly as if the invisible beam is being re-aimed and the bolt is staying in line with the beam.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-06 05:11pm

That seems incredibly convoluted. But if it fits the facts, then I guess we're stuck with it.

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-07-06 05:54pm

I know what you mean howedar.
i was expecting a straight up simple answer.

Mad · Post by **Mad** » 2003-07-06 06:20pm

Howedar wrote:That seems incredibly convoluted. But if it fits the facts, then I guess we're stuck with it.

Got a better idea that explains bolts changing velocity vector in mid-flight? That right there is enough to show that turbolasers aren't simple slower-than-light projectiles of whatever. (HDS' original thread on the subject is here.)

Further, do you have a better explanation that, along with explaining the bolt changing vector, also explains the seeming delay (which is usually pretty consistent regardless of range) from the weapon that has been described as propagating at lightspeed? (I doubt many theories even come close to explaining that delay without resorting to slower-than-light propagation.)

I don't see how the explanation is convulted, especially seeing as it rationalizes canon material that others theories can't even attempt to handle. (A slower-than-light bolt changing direction in mid-flight is rather tough to rationalize...) Is there something in particular that bothers you about the theory?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-06 06:23pm

Mad wrote:
Howedar wrote:Got a better idea that explains bolts changing velocity vector in mid-flight? That right there is enough to show that turbolasers aren't simple slower-than-light projectiles of whatever. (HDS' original thread on the subject is here.)
Nope. Thats why I say we are left with this current theory.
Further, do you have a better explanation that, along with explaining the bolt changing vector, also explains the seeming delay (which is usually pretty consistent regardless of range) from the weapon that has been described as propagating at lightspeed? (I doubt many theories even come close to explaining that delay without resorting to slower-than-light propagation.)
See above.
I don't see how the explanation is convulted, especially seeing as it rationalizes canon material that others theories can't even attempt to handle. (A slower-than-light bolt changing direction in mid-flight is rather tough to rationalize...) Is there something in particular that bothers you about the theory?

Its just very very complicated. I tend not to like compliated theories. However, if you'd actually read my post, you'd have seen that I do accept this theory because it does fit the facts. I just don't like it.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-07-06 06:28pm

Mad, Howedar's not disagreeing with HDS's theory, he's just looking for a better option.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-07-06 07:28pm

Another option would the fantasy energy waveform idea, the energy generated from Tibanna gas(which I assume is generated in the same way that bomb-pumped x-ray lasers might work) does propagate at C, but for some reason alot of the energy of the beam is concentrated to a small area that travels along the beam, kinda like when you crack a whip, this motion then creates a disturbance where it's been, that is the visible bolt.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-07-06 07:36pm

Or we can stop throwing around theories that are more convulted than Darkstar's attempts to drop firepower, and just admit we don't know how it works.

They have incredible range, power, and deliver it in a thermal means.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-06 07:37pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Mad, Howedar's not disagreeing with HDS's theory, he's just looking for a better option.

Not even that, I'm lamenting the lack of a better option.

omegaLancer · Post by **omegaLancer** » 2003-07-06 07:45pm

The best explaination for the visible bolt, is that it is plasma. Why.. Recently there have been experiment to create self focusing Lasers that would act like a Soliton using plasma that has been accelerated by the same laser.

This would increase the range of the beam weapon, leaving behind a bolt of plasma that would be visible.

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ICS canon issues

ICS canon issues

self Focusing and relatitive Plasma