Battle of the Fed ships...

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

Post Reply
User avatar
Sothis
Jedi Knight
Posts: 664
Joined: 2002-07-03 06:07pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Battle of the Fed ships...

Post by Sothis »

Lets assume for whatever reason the Federation ends up in a civil war. The climate battle takes place in a non-descript area of space, between the following:

The Government forces:
1 Sovreign class (Enterprise E, with Picard and Co) as flagship.
4 Galaxy class starships
10 Akiras
15 Excelsiors
5 Nebulas
5 Intrepids

Rebels:
1 Defiant class (USS Defiant, Sisko and Co with Worf) as flagship
2 Galaxies
10 Akiras
10 Excelsiors
15 Mirandas
2 Nebulas
4 Intrepids

Discuss :D
Hakuna Matata
The Forums of Sothis! http://www.1-2-free-forums.com/mf/sothis.html
User avatar
NecronLord
Harbinger of Doom
Harbinger of Doom
Posts: 27384
Joined: 2002-07-07 06:30am
Location: The Lost City

Post by NecronLord »

Eager to see the back of those Pajama clad weirdos, I send a Cairn Class tombship to aid the rebels :twisted:
Superior Moderator - BotB - HAB [Drill Instructor]-Writer- Stardestroyer.net's resident Star-God.
"We believe in the systematic understanding of the physical world through observation and experimentation, argument and debate and most of all freedom of will." ~ Stargate: The Ark of Truth
User avatar
Alyeska
Federation Ambassador
Posts: 17496
Joined: 2002-08-11 07:28pm
Location: Montana, USA

Post by Alyeska »

Government forces have greater numbers of more powerful ships, they win by default.
"If the facts are on your side, pound on the facts. If the law is on your side, pound on the law. If neither is on your side, pound on the table."

"The captain claimed our people violated a 4,000 year old treaty forbidding us to develop hyperspace technology. Extermination of our planet was the consequence. The subject did not survive interrogation."
User avatar
SirNitram
Rest in Peace, Black Mage
Posts: 28367
Joined: 2002-07-03 04:48pm
Location: Somewhere between nowhere and everywhere

Post by SirNitram »

Government wins by superior numbers.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.

Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.

Shadowy Overlord - BMs/Black Mage Monkey - BOTM/Jetfire - Cybertron's Finest/General Miscreant/ASVS/Supermoderator Emeritus

Debator Classification: Trollhunter
User avatar
Tsyroc
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 13748
Joined: 2002-07-29 08:35am
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Post by Tsyroc »

Wait wait...you didn't say which side Janeway was on.

Whichever side she's on loses because she either gets them killed or they deffect to the other side which then wins because of superior numbers and better tactics (no Janeway) :twisted:
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
Guest

Post by Guest »

I can see the Federation in a civil war, acutally. Just look at the Maqui. It is obvious from the TV shows that the members of Starfleet were pretty much split down the middle on the issue. Many Starfleet officers joined the Maqui. Imagine the AQ after the Dominion War now. Many of the "outer" Federation colonies would probably be pretty upset at how the Federation handled the war effort. They undoubtedly suffered the worst. I can see Starfleet officers going over to their side and demanding independence from the Federation. There are also a few surviving Maqui that are probably upset at how the Federation let them get slaughtered.

I think you gave the rebels enough starships to formally engage the Federation in a fleet battle. I don't think I have ever seen an example of Picard commanding a fleet in battle. Sisko has demonstrated that he can do that. I think the rebels have this one in the bag.
User avatar
Alferd Packer
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3708
Joined: 2002-07-19 09:22pm
Location: Slumgullion Pass
Contact:

Post by Alferd Packer »

The rebels would fire on the bridges of the government ships, effectively incapacitating them so that they could be destroyed with relatively little danger to the rebels.

Well, that's what I'd do if I were in a rebel ship.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--that principle is contempt prior to investigation." -Herbert Spencer

"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain." - Schiller, Die Jungfrau von Orleans, III vi.
LordChaos
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 419
Joined: 2002-07-04 03:20am
Location: Minnesota

Post by LordChaos »

Missmatch.

1 - the Sovereign is far superior as a warship to the defiant. The defiant is only impressive because of it's size relitive to other ST ships.

2 - discounting the flagships (which is in size 1's favor), size 1 has 34 heavy ships and 5 light ships whils side 2 has 24 heavy ships and 19 light ships.

Even if we remove all the identical ships, it's still heavily in side 1's favor, with 10 heavy ships an 1 light vs 0 heavy ships an 15 light ships. Now, if there's anyone here who things that 15 light warships can be a fair match for 10 heavy warships, identify yourself so I can kick you in the head.
There is no problem to dificult for a signifigantly large enough quantity of C-4 to handle.
Image
If you're leaving scorch marks, you aren't using a big enough gun.
Howedar
Emperor's Thumb
Posts: 12472
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:06pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Post by Howedar »

Government forces win easily.
Howedar is no longer here. Need to talk to him? Talk to Pick.
User avatar
aerius
Charismatic Cult Leader
Posts: 14810
Joined: 2002-08-18 07:27pm

Post by aerius »

I depends more on the competance of the people on the ships more than anything else. For example having Janeway on one side would pretty much result in a crushing defeat for that side, and having Kirk would result in a sure win. The rebels are probably more likely to go for broke, while the government will be more sensitive to losses. I'd say that if the rebels can swarm and kill the gov flagship they'll have a good chance of winning, but if they decide to have a slugfest they're doomed.
Image
aerius: I'll vote for you if you sleep with me. :)
Lusankya: Deal!
Say, do you want it to be a threesome with your wife? Or a foursome with your wife and sister-in-law? I'm up for either. :P
User avatar
Solid Snake
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1540
Joined: 2002-07-16 07:46pm
Location: 30 miles from my armory

Post by Solid Snake »

Send a fleet of Whitestars to aid the Rebel Forces. Bye-bye commies!
US Army Infantry: Follow Me!

Heavy Armor Brigade
User avatar
Solid Snake
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1540
Joined: 2002-07-16 07:46pm
Location: 30 miles from my armory

Post by Solid Snake »

Oh, send a few Battlestars too. The Rebels would rape the government without vasoline.
US Army Infantry: Follow Me!

Heavy Armor Brigade
User avatar
Evil Jerk
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 998
Joined: 2002-08-30 08:28am
Location: In the Castle of Pain on the Mountain of Death beyond the River of Fire

Post by Evil Jerk »

Federation loses either way.
Open rebellion on this scale would utterly destroy the fragile Communist fabrications of galactic paradise, even if the govt wins the war, I can see it's member worlds finally questioning the organization and seceeding anyway, at which point the UFP either disintegrates or throws away all pretense and openly acts like a police state.
Evil Horseman, ready to torment the damned!

YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
Am I annoying you yet?
YOU SHALL BE AS GODS
User avatar
Master of Ossus
Darkest Knight
Posts: 18213
Joined: 2002-07-11 01:35am
Location: California

Post by Master of Ossus »

15 Mirandas is not a strong enough advantage over a Sovereign vs. a Defiant, two Galaxies, and five Excelsiors. Think about it this way: a miranda is a match for a Constitution, but no more. The E-Nil would not stand a technological chance against the Sovereign. Even if we assume that two Mirandas is a good match for an Excelsior, we must understand that two Mirandas is nowhere near enough to take down a Galaxy.
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul

Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner

"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000

"Happiness is just a Flaming Moe away."
User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 37390
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB

Post by Sea Skimmer »

SolidSnake wrote:Oh, send a few Battlestars too. The Rebels would rape the government without vasoline.
Send them some 1960's Russian AS-3 anti ship missiles. With the 350-kiloton nuclear warhead, they are easily comparable or superior to Photon torpedoes in power, and have better range and guidance. Just need to slap a thrust vector nozzle on.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956
consequences
Homicidal Maniac
Posts: 6964
Joined: 2002-07-07 03:06pm

Post by consequences »

The rebel fleet can win, but only by adopting Jem'hadar style ramming tactics with the Mirandas against government heavy ships. Actually, if the government forms the standard starfleet wall of battle, then the self-destruction of 15 Mirandas might cripple or destroy the entire fleet.
Image
User avatar
Typhonis 1
Rabid Monkey Scientist
Posts: 5791
Joined: 2002-07-06 12:07am
Location: deep within a secret cloning lab hidden in the brotherhood of the monkey thread

Post by Typhonis 1 »

While this is going on the Tholians annaly rape the Federation .Along with the Gorn and the Romulans also taking there own bites out of the poor commies. :twisted:
Brotherhood of the Bear Monkey Clonemaster , Anti Care Bears League,
Bureaucrat and BOFH of the HAB,
Skunk Works director of the Mecha Maniacs,
Black Mage,

I AM BACK! let the SCIENCE commence!
User avatar
Shadow
Padawan Learner
Posts: 366
Joined: 2002-07-03 10:34pm

Post by Shadow »

SolidSnake wrote:Send a fleet of Whitestars to aid the Rebel Forces. Bye-bye commies!
Whitestars would be useless. One torpedo would destroy them all.
User avatar
starfury
Jedi Master
Posts: 1297
Joined: 2002-07-03 08:28pm
Location: aboard the ISD II Broadsword

Post by starfury »

while the feddies fight it out, send a fleet of Lunar cruiser and a dictator carrier and put these these "primitives in their place"
"a single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic"-Joseph Stalin

"No plan survives contact with the enemy"-Helmuth Von Moltke

"Women prefer stories about one person dying slowly. Men prefer stories of many people dying quickly."-Niles from Frasier.
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Post by phongn »

Sea Skimmer wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:Oh, send a few Battlestars too. The Rebels would rape the government without vasoline.
Send them some 1960's Russian AS-3 anti ship missiles. With the 350-kiloton nuclear warhead, they are easily comparable or superior to Photon torpedoes in power, and have better range and guidance. Just need to slap a thrust vector nozzle on.
Bah. SS-18 with a MARV.
User avatar
Cpt_Frank
Official SD.Net Evil Warsie Asshole
Posts: 3652
Joined: 2002-07-03 03:05am
Location: the black void
Contact:

Post by Cpt_Frank »

Where are the Mirandas? No Mirandas included?
Those were from the TOS era and would probably kick ass.
Image
Supermod
User avatar
Knife
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 15769
Joined: 2002-08-30 02:40pm
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain

Post by Knife »

Is this a battle or a war? If its a battle then the 1 team clearly wins. If its a war then if would depend on the tatics used. Using standard Trek tatics team 1 still wins, however if its a civil war then there should be a large feeling of discontent on both sides, and if team 2 uses hit and fade raids to inflame the discontent of both sides and create a more unstable goverment, they could stand to get even more recruits and ships. This would weaken the 1 team and make the odds better for them. Using flanking manuvers to destroy escorts, and thin out their fleet, attaking ships in drydock, or single ships on exploritory missions would further depleate the first team, until it was a more equal fight or the advantage was with team 2.
It's not always the ships, but who runs them and who leads them that will decide who wins.
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong

But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
User avatar
Larz
Rabid Monkey
Posts: 1638
Joined: 2002-09-11 04:28pm
Location: A superimposed state between home and work.

Post by Larz »

The federation in actual battle?!? HAHAHA... I'd figure the federation would just try to talk to the rebels as they sat 5000 Km of each others bows and took warning shots at each other until finally one fleet goes home... but saying they actually do start doing real battle (highly improbable), the federation would win due to their vessel numbers.
"Once again we wanted our heroes to be simple, grizzled everymen with nothing to lose; one foot in the grave, the other wrapped in an American flag and lodged firmly in a terrorist's asshole."


Brotherhood of the Monkey: Nonchalant Disgruntled Monkey
Justice League
User avatar
Kamakazie Sith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7555
Joined: 2002-07-03 05:00pm
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Sea Skimmer wrote:
SolidSnake wrote:Oh, send a few Battlestars too. The Rebels would rape the government without vasoline.
Send them some 1960's Russian AS-3 anti ship missiles. With the 350-kiloton nuclear warhead, they are easily comparable or superior to Photon torpedoes in power, and have better range and guidance. Just need to slap a thrust vector nozzle on.
May I ask how you came to that conclusion? The warhead....maybe but those missiles are slow and lol they do not have superior range or guidance.
Milites Astrum Exterminans
Post Reply