It's raining asteroids! TESB topic.

[Alyeska]

Yet we see the bridge destroyed... Decisions decisions, where was the captain?

The captain is important Alyeska.

If Vympel has concrete proof that the Captain was on the main deck at the time of the impact, and not harmed in any signifacnt way (aside from reeling at what might be a blinding light) then we must rationlize why the bridge is still there.

If he does not, than we already know the answer to our question. It ALL depends on the captain's location.

Not it does not depend on the captains location. The evidence I posted already proves the complete destruction of the forward section of the bridge. Thus the captain can NOT be on the bridge. He might be somewhere similar, but the outer visual evidence proves he is not in the main bridge. Besides, the holonet transmission does not show the location of the captain.

One final note, it is not unknown for ISD commanders to have mockup bridges elsewhere and its possible the secondary bridge was designed similarily.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Not to interrupt the henpecking, but I am still wondering about the validity of my proposal on the top of page four...

[Vympel]

Its very simple. You advance the film and watch the rate at which the ship moves and you reattach the bridge at the proper point. Much as you dislike Darkstar, its pretty damned low to claim he fakes evidene.

Ah, like when he puts ... in his quotes to distort what people are telling him eh? How DARE I ... Or let's not forget his 'bands of brightness'.

I have used my copy to determine how close the bridge was to certain elements to visible parts of the main hull. Darkstar kept the bridge in its proper location. Thus critical elments are missing. The captain piece of evidence is meaningless. We see the bridge disapear thus the captain can NOT be on the bridge.

No, you can't see all the elements of the bridge. Big difference.

The asteroid impacts on one side of the bridge yet the whole bridge is destroyed.

Including your conclusion as a premise.

Stop looking at the captain, he is secondary to the outside footage. Look at that footage, then try and rationalize where the captain was located from that point onward.

Recorded? Yes, recorded. I quote the movie:

'That Lord Vader was the last time they appeared in any of our scopes.'

Hence, a recording.

LOL! Needa uses past tense in reference to when they last saw the Falcon, so the whole thing is a recording. You really didn't think very hard when you typed that one, did you?

How do you know he was near the pits?

http://www. angelfire.com/scifi2/iimperium/images /isdbridge.jpg

Remove spaces. See where the hologram pod is? Notice that the communications consoles are just across from it? Notice the bridge pits in relaiton to it?

If he was, however, I'm inclined to believe the blast did NOT destroy the bridge. As I previously stated, since the windows are the weakest section of the bridge, if anything is going to be destroyed in that impact its them. If the officer was in fact on the main deck at the time of the impact and NOT sucked into space (or even fall down) then the damage musn't have been great enough to harm the bridge in any significant way.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Not it does not depend on the captains location. The evidence I posted already proves the complete destruction of the forward section of the bridge. Thus the captain can NOT be on the bridge. He might be somewhere similar, but the outer visual evidence proves he is not in the main bridge. Besides, the holonet transmission does not show the location of the captain.

All I'm saying is *if* Vympel has this proof that he was on the main deck. Obviosouly, the bridge can't still be destroyed if he was. Maybe deformed enough to be hidden by the smoke or something, but both captain and bridge cannot exist in the same place if it were to be destroyed.

One final note, it is not unknown for ISD commanders to have mockup bridges elsewhere and its possible the secondary bridge was designed similarily.

IIRC, only Zsinj. And he was a pretty wacky guy. Seeing as the ship was part of Vader's Death Squad, I don't think such modifications would be allowed.

[Vympel]

Not it does not depend on the captains location. The evidence I posted already proves the complete destruction of the forward section of the bridge.

No, it doesn't. The bridge is at most damaged. You cannot prove total destruction of the entire bridge from it, and the presence of the Captain on the bridge as I have repeatedly shown proves that the bridge was still there after the explosion, albeit without communications.

[Alyeska]

Not it does not depend on the captains location. The evidence I posted already proves the complete destruction of the forward section of the bridge.

No, it doesn't. The bridge is at most damaged. You cannot prove total destruction of the entire bridge from it, and the presence of the Captain on the bridge as I have repeatedly shown proves that the bridge was still there after the explosion, albeit without communications.

And yet one entire side of the bridge is missing as is the dome up top. That is not minor.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

http://www. angelfire.com/scifi2/iimperium/images /isdbridge.jpg

Remove spaces. See where the hologram pod is? Notice that the communications consoles are just across from it? Notice the bridge pits in relaiton to it?

While Darkstar would scream about it being non-canon...we all know what LucasFilm's real policy is anyways so...

Works for me. The holo-pod is on the place that would be destroyed if the asteroid wrecked the bridge. The captain doesn't die though. Therefore we must conclude that while the bridge was significantly deformed (see Alyeska's diagram on the other page), it was not completely destroyed.

[Vympel]

And yet one entire side of the bridge is missing as is the dome up top. That is not minor.

I never said the bridge sustained minor damage. There was an explosion in the bridge and they lost transmission, and lost probably around half of the tower, at least (considering the point of impact and the rest of the evidence).

[JodoForce]

If the whole thing were happening in the present tense, Needa should have been talking about something else when the asteroid struck--it was a conference with Vader, why would Needa monitor the situation on the other ISD so closely that he talks about it immediately after it is struck? Doesn't he have more important matters on his mind?

On another note...

Perhaps the artificial gravity field held the captain on the ground even as the bridge tower was torn off the ship with him in it. After all the artificial gravity is capable of holding people on the deck during impossible accelerations to .9c...

[JodoForce]

Also, why would Needa need to broach the subject? If it is happening in the present tense Vader can see as well as Needa what's happening and he should be controlling the flow of the conference. IMHO the scene makes more sense if Needa is presenting a recording of the scene to Vader for discussion.

Anyway, are you arguing that the flash that the doomed captain covers his face against does NOT correspond to the moment of impact of the asteroid? That's the implication of your argument for viewing the time progression of this portion of the movie literally, and this implication is frankly ridiculous.

[Vympel]

If the whole thing were happening in the present tense, Needa should have been talking about something else when the asteroid struck--it was a conference with Vader, why would Needa monitor the situation on the other ISD so closely that he talks about it immediately after it is struck? Doesn't he have more important matters on his mind?

I just don't get what you are talking about. They were reporting to Lord Vader. Needa was informing him of the last time they had seen the Millenium Falcon. During the conference, one of the ISDs is struck. What's the problem?

Oh, and furthermore, I can't believe I forgot this- how the hell could it be a recording for this to happen:

"And that Lord Vader was the last time they appeared on any of our scopes. Considering the amount of damage we've sustained, they must've been destroyed."

"No Captain, they're alive. I want every ship to sweep the asteroid field until they are found"

*Captain's bow their heads, fade out*

[Vympel]

Also, why would Needa need to broach the subject?

Broach WHAT subject? You've managed to take a simple bloody scene and turn it into something absurd.

If it is happening in the present tense Vader can see as well as Needa what's happening and he should be controlling the flow of the conference. IMHO the scene makes more sense if Needa is presenting a recording of the scene to Vader for discussion.

A recording of WHAT scene?!

Anyway, are you arguing that the flash that the doomed captain covers his face against does NOT correspond to the moment of impact of the asteroid?

Ever heard of secondary explosions?

That's the implication of your argument for viewing the time progression of this portion of the movie literally, and this implication is frankly ridiculous.

Spare me. The only thing ridiculous is having someone argue the events are simulatenous by including their conclusion as a premise.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Meh, I guess it serves me right for suggesting an on-topic proposal during a silly deabte that's slightly off topic...

[JodoForce]

Eh, well you see, I don't actually own any of the SW movies. I was just going on the clip on this site.

[JodoForce]

So, how about the artificial gravity proposal? This can explain why the captain was on the bridge, the bridge was knocked off the ship and the captain was still standing. Right?

[Vympel]

Eh, well you see, I don't actually own any of the SW movies. I was just going on the clip on this site.

*puts hand on forehead, groans*

Ooops indeed .... my blood pressure was rising.

[Vympel]

So, how about the artificial gravity proposal? This can explain why the captain was on the bridge, the bridge was knocked off the ship and the captain was still standing. Right?

Wouldn't we see chunks of it floating off if that happened? If the bridge had been totally destroyed, he would've been basically reduced to a fine red mist.

[JodoForce]

Well, could the bridge have been knocked off whole along a trajectory hidden by the cloud...?

[Lord of the Farce]

My quick question: What is the likely visibility rate of a dust cloud created by an asteriod pulverising itself against a hard object?

[Howedar]

Its strange: if Darkstar's pictures are to be taken as accurate, then not only was the bridge destroyed but it was completely pulverized into dust which is suspiciously brown like the asteroid.

[JodoForce]

I would believe the dust of the bridge would be invisible behind the dust of the asteroid.

[JodoForce]

Well, could the bridge have been knocked off whole along a trajectory hidden by the cloud...?

[Isolder74]

This Asteroid impact is a hot topic because it can be used to say that ISD's have weak shields.

That over with lets get to the meat

We know the sheilds where down because Vader insisted on a Holo-conference. Needa's Transmission can not be a recording because he responds to Vader's comments(not with words but a nod is a responce). A holo-conference IMPLIES that they can see each other. It would be natural for Needa to note the apparent loss of a fellow captian and comment on it wouldn't it. The Captain not responding to the impact right away is becaue the asteroid hit away from his location initially but he obviously see the incomming explosion and reacts(futally) natrally to it. If it is sheared off the hull the captian is dead regardless. The ship it not lost but may have been sent home at this point. This would explain that all further ISD's seen later had their bridge towers.

[Vympel]

Well, could the bridge have been knocked off whole along a trajectory hidden by the cloud...?

I just don't see it- the way the asteroid comes in, it doesn't look like it's possible- never mind that we don't have any evidence to that effect.

Of course, the entire incident has nothing to do with shields as Isloder74 points out, because the shields were down.

[KhyronTheBackstabber]

If the asteroid destroyed the bridge, then where is the debris? You can't tell me that asteroid reduced the bridge to dust.