It's raining asteroids! TESB topic.

[Isolder74]

If the asteroid destroyed the bridge, then where is the debris? You can't tell me that asteroid reduced the bridge to dust.

The Scene is not long enough to really tell. The scene cuts away right at the point when we could tell how much damage was really done. But it is implied that the bridge is lost. So assumptions are all we are left with.

[Warspite]

Okay, fair enough. Forgive me for "bringing this up again", but what evidence is there that they're shield/bolt interactions..? The turbolasers seem to be exploding quite aways away from the Falcon.

We don't know where the shield's end in the Falcon, do we?

Is it possible that the Falcon's shields (and other vessels') fade out from the ship for some distance and the TL bolts explode when they make contact with the more difuse area of the shield?

LOL --- They just don't like you!

Anyway, since I'm directly quoted, I'll try to answer.

(Mike discusses this in his shields pages, and I've been perusing them recently.)

It's quite possible, the shields may work like a field, in which case there isn't a very defined boundary in which the shield ends. Theoretically, it has zero value at infinity, much like a gravity, eletrostatic or a magnetic field.
So, yes, the bolts explode when this field effect is strong enough.

As for the cases in TPM, when a shield is activated and we see a very well defined boundary, in both instances they were activated in atmosphere (the first time we witness this procedure).
So, as postulated by Dr. Saxton, that glow effect is the interaction of the shield with air molecules, at the point of highest strenght (the Driodekas have to pass their guns through this limit to fire).

Problem?
Well, the glow effect in the Driodekas stays with them as they walk, while in the case when Anakin activates the shield inside the Trade Federation Hangar the glow effect quickly dissipate.
But, that can be explained with different atmoshperes for the hangar, and for the corridors. Also, such variables as air density and velocity may influence our perception of the glow effect.


One final note, the shield also has a vector effect ("...angle the deflector shields."), further enphasizing the postulation of a field theory.

(This is getting so off-topic!)

[Alyeska]

If the asteroid destroyed the bridge, then where is the debris? You can't tell me that asteroid reduced the bridge to dust.

A Bridge doesn't have to be completely vaporized or what have you to be destroyed and non visible. Its possible part of the bridge was sheered off and is behind the explossion, its possible part of the bridge crumpled like a beer can and hence the crumple was behind the explossion debris.

[Lord Poe]

Yet we see the bridge destroyed... Decisions decisions, where was the captain?

I'm probably the only "Warsie" that has always agreed that the command was completely destroyed, with the possible exception of the rear "neck" part surviving. Chris O' Farrell can back me up on that.

The captain was on the bridge. We merely saw the last transmission from the bridge of that ship on Executor. What happened to Occam's Razor, people? Why must we go through some elaborate crap about the captain using the holocomm in the bathroom on deck 162?

In the beginning of TESB, we see the probe droid land on Hoth. THEN, we see it AGAIN, but from Luke's perspective. Did TWO probe droids land?

[The Silence and I]

1)------______
--------|ooooo \
--------|ooOooo\
--------|ooooooo|>>> <-- Bridge
--------|ooooooo|>>>
--------|ooOooo/
--------|ooooo /
-- __
-/oo \
|ooo| <-- Rock
--\oo

2)
-------- ______
--------|ooooo \
--------|ooOooo\
--------|ooooooo|>>> <-- Bridge just after impact
--------|ooooooo|>>>
-------------\ooo/
------------|oo /

3)
--------------__
--------------oo\
-------------|ooo\
------------ooooo|>>> <-- Bridge before it emerges
------------ooooo|>>>
--------------ooo /
--------------|oo/

This overhead view shows, I think, (I don't ever want ot do that again ) what happened. The rock hit the left corner of the bridge, but in the screen caps the right corner does not emerge from the cloud (The left never should have, but the right should have left the edge of the cloud). So the damage must have been severe, crumpling or shearing off the entire face of the bridge. The captain could have survived if he was furthur back, as that need not have been destroyed.

[The Silence and I]

In the beginning of TESB, we see the probe droid land on Hoth. THEN, we see it AGAIN, but from Luke's perspective. Did TWO probe droids land?

YES!!! There were two droids people!!!! Don't you see that!!!!!

You might think that delayed time in a movie makes sense, but....

[Darth Servo]

This whole issue should be one of the options on Darth Wongs current "What would you fix about SW if you had the chance?" poll.

Where is our fearless leader anyways? Massive update? Vacation with the family?

[Lord Poe]

"Flak bursts" are a work of fiction invented by SW fans who don't get it

Bullshit. They are stated to be flak bursts in the canon novelization.

(I once believed in them too, but Connor Macleod gave me one hell of a smackdown, and I became a believer).[/quote]

SOME, not ALL are shield interactions.

[Warspite]

"Flak bursts" are a work of fiction invented by SW fans who don't get it

Bullshit. They are stated to be flak bursts in the canon novelization.

(I once believed in them too, but Connor Macleod gave me one hell of a smackdown, and I became a believer).

SOME, not ALL are shield interactions.[/quote]

Poe, let's leave the flak burst aside, ok? There is enough already with the command tower.

[His Divine Shadow]

The asteroid impacting on the tower clearly shows that the tower was still intact, it clearly followed the bhevaiour of a physical impactor that failed to penetrate.

MW described it thusly:
"If it fails to penetrate, it pulverizes and/or vapourizes at the point of contact due to internal stresses and work-heating, thus producing a large cloud of high-temperature material at the target surface"

This is what we saw on the screen, we also saw that the holo-transmission was cut off due to this, hence all we can conclude from the movies without any assumptions(no matter how well founded you may imagine yours to be) is that the asteroid did not penetrate the bridge and that it suffered communications failure from the impact.

[His Divine Shadow]

"Flak bursts" are a work of fiction invented by SW fans who don't get it

Bullshit. They are stated to be flak bursts in the canon novelization.

But is a flakburst, from the perspective of the people in SW, anything more than say a bolt hitting some small particulate matter in the air(or small asteroids in space) that causes it to rapidly degenerate into a flak like effect, or a bolt-shield interaction itself?

[Alyeska]

The asteroid impacting on the tower clearly shows that the tower was still intact, it clearly followed the bhevaiour of a physical impactor that failed to penetrate.

MW described it thusly:
"If it fails to penetrate, it pulverizes and/or vapourizes at the point of contact due to internal stresses and work-heating, thus producing a large cloud of high-temperature material at the target surface"

This is what we saw on the screen, we also saw that the holo-transmission was cut off due to this, hence all we can conclude from the movies without any assumptions(no matter how well founded you may imagine yours to be) is that the asteroid did not penetrate the bridge and that it suffered communications failure from the impact.

HDS, your line of reasoning fails upon simple examination. The bridge never reappeared after sufficent time had passed. The screenshots clearly show critical elements missing when there is nothing to cloud the view.

[His Divine Shadow]

Its strange: if Darkstar's pictures are to be taken as accurate, then not only was the bridge destroyed but it was completely pulverized into dust which is suspiciously brown like the asteroid.

What about this one?
http://www.hisdivineshadow.com/misc/ima ... r_anim.gif

I used the outline from the tower earlier on, but I believe the whole ISD twisted to the side so we'd actually have seen the tower more from the side than previously, giving it a smaller profile and easier time of not being seen in the explosion.

[His Divine Shadow]

HDS, your line of reasoning fails upon simple examination. The bridge never reappeared after sufficent time had passed. The screenshots clearly show critical elements missing when there is nothing to cloud the view.

I've done that myself and I have not come up with the same result.

[Alyeska]

HDS, your line of reasoning fails upon simple examination. The bridge never reappeared after sufficent time had passed. The screenshots clearly show critical elements missing when there is nothing to cloud the view.

I've done that myself and I have not come up with the same result.

And just where did the bridge and dome go eh? They just disapeared like a far in the wind but they still exist? The picture clearly shows the debris cloud is no longer capable of obscuring certain sections of the bridge and tower and yet critical parts of the bridge are missing. Parts that should be visible if they still existed. The conclussion is on obvious one.

[His Divine Shadow]

HDS, your line of reasoning fails upon simple examination. The bridge never reappeared after sufficent time had passed. The screenshots clearly show critical elements missing when there is nothing to cloud the view.

I've done that myself and I have not come up with the same result.

And just where did the bridge and dome go eh? They just disapeared like a far in the wind but they still exist? The picture clearly shows the debris cloud is no longer capable of obscuring certain sections of the bridge and tower and yet critical parts of the bridge are missing. Parts that should be visible if they still existed. The conclussion is on obvious one.

I have not seen any such things, show me what you talk about.

[Alyeska]

Its strange: if Darkstar's pictures are to be taken as accurate, then not only was the bridge destroyed but it was completely pulverized into dust which is suspiciously brown like the asteroid.

What about this one?
http://www.hisdivineshadow.com/misc/ima ... r_anim.gif

I used the outline from the tower earlier on, but I believe the whole ISD twisted to the side so we'd actually have seen the tower more from the side than previously, giving it a smaller profile and easier time of not being seen in the explosion.

Your profile shot is incorrect. I can see a reference point in the shot that disagrees with the actual clip. You have the bridge sitting to far back.

[Alyeska]

I might as well repost this entire thing.

Here is the ending scene.



Here is where the bridge SHOULD be if it still existed.



Lets make it easier.

Here is the bridge super imposed with critical aspects marked.



Where is the bridge eh?



You can clearly see the explossion cloud can NOT be shrowding those portions of the bridge. Both the forward leading edge of the bridge and the dome is COMPLETELY MISSING and there is nothing covering those locations up sufficently. There is proof enough of this by seeing how the main body of the ISD is not being clouded by the debris thus if the bridge survived it should be visible.

Obvious conclussion, the bridge was destroyed.

HDS, these shots clearly show where the bridge should be and yet it is not.

[NecronLord]

HDS, I'm sorry to say it, but your animation does look a little forced to me.

[His Divine Shadow]

I see DarkStar doesn't align the bridge with the bridge outline at the back but seems to subjectively move it forward and try and connect in some way wit the visisble superstructure, his pic is flawed, not mine.

[His Divine Shadow]

HDS, I'm sorry to say it, but your animation does look a little forced to me.

I merely align the tower outline with the back of the tower itself, we can see the tower outline, we know from earlier on in the scene that the outline is from the towers back itself, thats where the tower must be.

[Alyeska]

I see DarkStar doesn't align the bridge with the bridge outline at the back but seems to subjectively move it forward and try and connect in some way wit the visisble superstructure, his pic is flawed, not mine.

No, yours is flawed. I already double checked his image. Using reference points on the forward section of the hull I have determined that he has correctly placed the bridge in relation to the ship. You do not. When you attempt to line it up in the back like that (and ignore the fact that the line continues past where you locate it) you have removed the bridge from its proper location in relation to the ship.

[His Divine Shadow]

I don't really see otherwise what can be done here to estimate the location of the bridge, a frame-by-frame walkthrough?

[Alyeska]

HDS, I'm sorry to say it, but your animation does look a little forced to me.

I merely align the tower outline with the back of the tower itself, we can see the tower outline, we know from earlier on in the scene that the outline is from the towers back itself, thats where the tower must be.

Notice the tower in relation to that notch just forward and below? This is a direct shot from the clip itself. Your little picture does not line up properly. You falsely assume that line in the back is the bridge tower and neck. By doing that you end up removing the bridge from its proper location as evidence by the notch. As NecronLord said, you messed up your drawing.

[Alyeska]

I don't really see otherwise what can be done here to estimate the location of the bridge, a frame-by-frame walkthrough?

That is exactly what Darkstar did. He walked through the frames and determined the exact location the bridge should be by calculating the rate at which the frames moved and then superimposed the bridge onto the picture for reference.