Some stuff about the DSI battle

justifier · Post by **justifier** » 2003-07-08 11:53pm

There have been two things bothering me about the DSI battle lately.

1.Why didn't rebal fighters try shoting torpedos down the superlaser barrel. It goes to the core and seems much bigger then the vent they were shooting for, and even if they missed hitting it exactly it would fuck up the superlaser enough to delay the Imperial attack.

2.Why didn't the rebals evacuate Yavin. The rebal HQ should have something other then fighters that was FTL capable. At least putting some rebal leaders on the Millenium Falcon to escape would have been a good idea.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-07-09 12:00am

justifier wrote:1.Why didn't rebal fighters try shoting torpedos down the superlaser barrel. It goes to the core and seems much bigger then the vent they were shooting for, and even if they missed hitting it exactly it would fuck up the superlaser enough to delay the Imperial attack.

The network of machinery and what-nots inside the DS's superlaser cannon probably completely blocks the path to the core multiple times. I've looked at the diagram in the ICS, and it appears to have obstuctions too large for a torpedo to maneuver around.

2.Why didn't the rebals evacuate Yavin. The rebal HQ should have something other then fighters that was FTL capable. At least putting some rebal leaders on the Millenium Falcon to escape would have been a good idea.

Our own Mr. Wong answers this question on the website:

"One common question is: "why didn't the Rebels evacuate, the way they did at Hoth?" I think the answer is that they were well established in that base, and they didn't have enough time. Some have suggested that a couple of hours should have been enough time, but that is frankly silly. Go ask a factory manager how long it would take to dismantle and package all of his equipment in preparation to move to another building, and then ask yourself how long it would take to dismantle and evacuate an entire military base. The Hoth base was makeshift, and undoubtedly in a state of constant preparation for an evacuation, but the Yavin base was built before the Emperor dissolved the Imperial Senate and unveiled the Death Star. When they set it up, they probably assumed their shield would buy them days to load transports in the event that they were attacked." - Michael Wong

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-07-09 12:02am

justifier wrote:There have been two things bothering me about the DSI battle lately.

1.Why didn't rebal fighters try shoting torpedos down the superlaser barrel. It goes to the core and seems much bigger then the vent they were shooting for, and even if they missed hitting it exactly it would fuck up the superlaser enough to delay the Imperial attack.

2.Why didn't the rebals evacuate Yavin. The rebal HQ should have something other then fighters that was FTL capable. At least putting some rebal leaders on the Millenium Falcon to escape would have been a good idea.

1. There must have been something that made this impossible

2. Perhaps for the moral boost they decided to stay with the base. Han wouldn't have taken anyone out with him anyway!

justifier · Post by **justifier** » 2003-07-09 12:08am

The network of machinery and what-nots inside the DS's superlaser cannon probably completely blocks the path to the core multiple times. I've looked at the diagram in the ICS, and it appears to have obstuctions too large for a torpedo to maneuver around.

But still, hitting the laser itself would at least give the rebals more time

"One common question is: "why didn't the Rebels evacuate, the way they did at Hoth?" I think the answer is that they were well established in that base, and they didn't have enough time. Some have suggested that a couple of hours should have been enough time, but that is frankly silly. Go ask a factory manager how long it would take to dismantle and package all of his equipment in preparation to move to another building, and then ask yourself how long it would take to dismantle and evacuate an entire military base. The Hoth base was makeshift, and undoubtedly in a state of constant preparation for an evacuation, but the Yavin base was built before the Emperor dissolved the Imperial Senate and unveiled the Death Star. When they set it up, they probably assumed their shield would buy them days to load transports in the event that they were attacked." - Michael Wong

What about personnel at least, do you think a bunch of rebal soldiers were sitting on a transport going
"We're gonna die"
"Yep"
"And we've got no way to escape"
"Yep"
"Boy, this is a neato looking transport"
"Yep"
"Too bad we're gonna die"

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-09 12:09am

How do you know that hitting the superlaser dish would have done anything? What if it did nothing?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-07-09 12:12am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:How do you know that hitting the superlaser dish would have done anything? What if it did nothing?

That is why it is not worth the risk besides this is a point that the Empire would have expected to be attacked! The Empire definetally would have installed every defense system available here.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-07-09 12:13am

justifier wrote:But still, hitting the laser itself would at least give the rebals more time

Considering that the Rebels were wielding measly 1 KT torps, I don't think they'd be powerful enough to cause any significant damage to the weapon (if they could, they would've gone at it with lasers instead).

What about personnel at least, do you think a bunch of rebal soldiers were sitting on a transport going
"We're gonna die"
"Yep"
"And we've got no way to escape"
"Yep"
"Boy, this is a neato looking transport"
"Yep"
"Too bad we're gonna die"

Where would they go? The head of the Rebellion has just been decapitated, the Death Star is still around to fry OTHER bases, and the Imperial Navy will be breathing down their necks anywhere they go to try to incite unrest.

They have a better chance of surviving by staying their and directing the starfighters than by fleeing and hoping that they'll be able to find another Rebellion base while being chased by Star Destroyers and such.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-07-09 12:38am

1.) The Superlaser HAS no single barrel. Its a composite beam weapon made up of eight smaller component beams (which is itself made up of many smaller component beams, compare the exterior SL dish beams to the ones inside the DS we see down corridors) It would have been impossible to get a shot down into the reactor via the superlaser shaft - and even were it possible, it would be simpler to go for the exhaust port (a straight shot compared to the sheer amount of weaving the Torpedo woul dhave to do in the SL network.)

2.) They not only didnt have the ships, they needed to kill the Death Star fast. AT the time, that was their best bet. (It should be noted that the canon novelization supports the notion they COULDN'T run - they had some of their most important supporters, officers, and diplomats on Yavin at that time.)

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-07-09 01:04am

Besides, remember how quickly the X-wings and Y-wings made it from Yavin 4 to the Death Star. TIE Fighters have much greater engine output, so even if the transports tried to escape, the TIEs would likely blow them to shreds.

FOG3 · Post by **FOG3** » 2003-07-09 10:55am

A question that has bothered me at least is why the DS1s shields were permeable by starfighters? It's not like they were launching Starfighters at that time. So having it in the mode that would allow launch and recovery makes little sense. Of course if Tarkin had modulated the shields properly the Rebels would have never had a chance.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-07-09 11:48am

FOG3 wrote:A question that has bothered me at least is why the DS1s shields were permeable by starfighters? It's not like they were launching Starfighters at that time. So having it in the mode that would allow launch and recovery makes little sense. Of course if Tarkin had modulated the shields properly the Rebels would have never had a chance.

Shields are hull hugging, they never went through them.

In regards to the question about the SL dish, it was shielded, remember that the thing about the exhasut port was that it was unshielded.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-07-09 12:03pm

Ender wrote:
FOG3 wrote:A question that has bothered me at least is why the DS1s shields were permeable by starfighters? It's not like they were launching Starfighters at that time. So having it in the mode that would allow launch and recovery makes little sense. Of course if Tarkin had modulated the shields properly the Rebels would have never had a chance.
Shields are hull hugging, they never went through them.

In regards to the question about the SL dish, it was shielded, remember that the thing about the exhasut port was that it was unshielded.

? They were blowing up a lot of DS scenery for their to be shields over all of that.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-07-09 12:07pm

If the Rebels had got up and left, very possibly the DS would have taken a break from destroying Yavin and swatted the fighters. This was the Rebellion's one chance to destroy the DS1, and they needed it. If that means making the entire force bait, so be it.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-07-09 12:07pm

What's the dialog in ANH again?

"We're passing through the _____ _____, hold tight, switch your deflectors on double front"

I can't remember if he says 'magnetic' or 'deflector' or if he says 'field' or 'shield', respectively.

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-07-09 12:10pm

Vympel wrote:What's the dialog in ANH again?

"We're passing through the _____ _____, hold tight, switch your deflectors on double front"

I can't remember if he says 'magnetic' or 'deflector' or if he says 'field' or 'shield', respectively.

Magnetic Shield.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-07-09 12:30pm

I have read about "shield seams, bearly big enough for a fighter to sqeeze through. It was a design oversaught, that made that possible. Because it was cleary stated, that thier defense is against capital ships and fighter could get through.
So the designers didn't bother to install a completly closed shield as like the DS II, simply they thought that the fighters wouldn't bother the Death Star.
This oversaught was corrected in the plans for the DS II. If it would have been ever finished, even a exhaust port weakness hadn't helped the Rebels, because they would be vaporised by the shield.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-07-09 04:03pm

Warspite wrote:
Vympel wrote:What's the dialog in ANH again?

"We're passing through the _____ _____, hold tight, switch your deflectors on double front"

I can't remember if he says 'magnetic' or 'deflector' or if he says 'field' or 'shield', respectively.
Magnetic Shield.

Field actually. THey say magnetic field. As in an artificail Van Alten Belts to make the thing habitable & protect against hard radiation.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-07-09 04:10pm

Tribun is correct. The excerpt is from the Star Wars Technical Journal.

"For while the Death Star was impervious to large vessel onslaughts there were 'seams' in the station's defensive shileds that a small fighter could exploit." -p.100

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-07-09 04:35pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Tribun is correct. The excerpt is from the Star Wars Technical Journal.

"For while the Death Star was impervious to large vessel onslaughts there were 'seams' in the station's defensive shileds that a small fighter could exploit." -p.100

The Empire not thinking small "snub" FIGHTERS TO BE A THREAT is why Tarkin did not launch his fighters to defend the Death Star.

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote:"surely you underestimate their chances"

the only fighters launched were the ones that were Vader's Personal Defensive Force AKA his Bodyguards. You see only Vader saw this attack as a true treat to the Death Star. His attitude, so there is only a tiny chance, there is still a chance and it is dangerous to underesimate the power of the Light Side of the Force!

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-07-09 05:57pm

Ender wrote:Field actually. THey say magnetic field. As in an artificail Van Alten Belts to make the thing habitable & protect against hard radiation.

Field -- Shield, very closely sounded words, then again, I haven't watched ANH in a while...

One thing though, when the Millenium Falcon is captured, was the field down?

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-07-09 06:29pm

Warspite wrote:
Ender wrote:Field actually. THey say magnetic field. As in an artificail Van Alten Belts to make the thing habitable & protect against hard radiation.
Field -- Shield, very closely sounded words, then again, I haven't watched ANH in a while...

One thing though, when the Millenium Falcon is captured, was the field down?

It makes it habitable. What do you think?

Warspite · Post by **Warspite** » 2003-07-10 05:14am

StarshipTitanic wrote: It makes it habitable. What do you think?

I know what the magnetic field is for, I'm only asking because when the rebels attacked, their craft "jiggled" somewhat when passsing through the magnetic field. Could the same had happened to the Millenium Falcon?

Striderteen · Post by **Striderteen** » 2003-07-10 05:02pm

Vympel wrote:What's the dialog in ANH again?

"We're passing through the _____ _____, hold tight, switch your deflectors on double front"

I can't remember if he says 'magnetic' or 'deflector' or if he says 'field' or 'shield', respectively.

It's "magnetic field".

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-11 01:33pm

Warspite wrote:
StarshipTitanic wrote: It makes it habitable. What do you think?
I know what the magnetic field is for, I'm only asking because when the rebels attacked, their craft "jiggled" somewhat when passsing through the magnetic field. Could the same had happened to the Millenium Falcon?

Probably. It might just be that we didn't see it because of how the shots in that scene were edited.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-07-11 01:35pm

You also have to remember that the Falcon was vibrating while trying to escape the tractor beam. That would hide the effects of the field.

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Some stuff about the DSI battle

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