Ethical Dilema

Hobot · Post by **Hobot** » 2003-07-10 02:06pm

Last week my found a job ad in the paper and showed it to me. It didn't say much, except that the base pay was $14.75. Since I'm a student I thought it sounded pretty good so I went to the website it advertised ( http://www.workforstudents.com/lb ). I applied for the job that day (it was Wednesday) and a few hours later they phoned me back. They told me it was on a first qualified first hired basis so I went that day for the interview. I had to take the bus as I don't drive.

First of all there was a personal interview, which went well. Then there was a group interview and we were told how great the job is and how great the product is. Finally it ended with another interview and I got the job. I felt quite good about it because I was thinking I wasn't going to be qualified for this "great" job.

For the next three days I had to come at 10 am for training. It was about 15 or more hours altogether and in that time we learned that the product (Cutco, a brand of high quality kitchen products) was the best and to be successful we just had to follow the program. Now that I look back on it, it was like going to church; long sermons of indoctrination, telling us why our product is better than everyone elses and if we just follow the rules we'll be fine.

On Friday night we had to phone friends and family and set up appointments for the weekend since we can only sell the product to people we know or people we've been referred to. I ended up getting the most demos lined up for the weekend and was praised on Saturday, our last day of training. I ended up selling over 1000 dollars worth of product (Canadian) which led to a promotion on Monday and a prize (for their fast start contest). Of course I was ecstatic.

However, I started hearing some rather discouraging things from some friends who had worked for Vector marketing (the marketing side of Cutco). So naturally I researched it on the Internet and found these two sites: long rant and nice breakdown. Basically it seems the training, manual, and presentations have misleading and even false information in them. The company organization is like a pyramid scheme or multi-level marketing.

I decided that it wasn't ethical and I phoned them last Tuesday. I had a big long argument with them. At first they told me that it was "just the Internet" and they were being rather evasive. They switched me around a bit and then I ended up speaking to the number one seller in Canada who told me just not to say the misleading parts and forget about it. I said it's still wrong because I've ended up pressuring friends into buying the stuff, so I quit. I then informed my customers and all but one cancelled their orders.

Now I'm wondering, is what I did right or did I over-react? I know advertising is always misleading, but people realize that when it's in the form of the media or someone they don't know. But when it's people they trust, I think it becomes a whole different ball game...

Hobot · Post by **Hobot** » 2003-07-10 02:13pm

Bah, stupid title typo

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-07-10 02:20pm

I got a job offer letter from Vector Marketing a while back, and found myself wondering exactly what they were trying to get me to join for. So I looked them up online, and found a bunch of horror stories about Cutco.

I promptly shredded the letter.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-07-10 02:21pm

Well i think you did the right thing. Personally i can't stand it when they hide what you're actually doing under false pretenses.

It's like this is how it should be advertised: we sell this:(product).
It costs x. It does these things....

But in this case, they advertised you a job, and then indoctrinated you into believing what they want you to believe and making money via you selling it to family and friends.

It pisses me off at least, but there's little that's "marginal" like this that doesn't. Plus there's the other people who distrust them which leads me to believe something dodgy's going on...

There'll be a more honest job somewhere for similar pay, go for that.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-07-10 02:34pm

Oh, yeah. I should have mentioned that my first action was, given the lack of contact information, to do a lookup on the return address on the job offer.

Turns out that they were located in some building in a run-down industrial park on the edges of Burbank, California. The building had been previously occupied by some Chinese toy import company, which doesn't say much for its condition.

At that point, all sorts of warning bells were going off, so I looked up "Vector" and turned up Vector Marketing (note--they did not have Vector Marketing on the envelope, only Vector. That had initially led me to believe that it might be a computer company of some sort...)

But as I mentioned before. once I saw the references to Cutco and their half-assed distribution system, that was it. My mother had become involved in several multi-level marketing scams in the past (well, almost scams, they did have decent products) and I was not impressed with the need to carry inventory and go around working hard to convince other people to buy shit.

As it is, I'm on a small list of applicants for a job as computer lab administrator at my former junior college. Part-time, it's a classified job so it has better wages than what I was getting as a student worker... and it's something that I wouldn't mind doing. I also know the current administrator, so I have connections as well

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-07-10 02:58pm

reminds me of the movie Boiler Room..... I'd say you did great man.

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2003-07-10 05:44pm

MLM=Multi-Level Marketing.

It is just the plain old pyramid sheeme.

Here's an url for ya:
http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html

I did go to one of those meetings but they threw me out when I just called it a pyramid sheeme and that the all where crooks.

Fucking frightening plase, they had rented an conference room in one of the better hotells over here. Got some junk in the mail you are selected earn ton of cash and all that crap, but they also offered free food and drink so...

I did go there and ate all I could from the tables but they only had nonalcoholic drinks so I got somewat pissed, then the meeting started, it was like a prayer meeting "we are the slected group halleluja", we'r gona "earn a lot of cash halleluja" and examples like 2 people woring in an auto repair shop now has tons of mony in the bank and nice cars houses and all that. And you can get it also you just have to sell....

Fucking fraud all of it.

Hobot · Post by **Hobot** » 2003-07-10 07:28pm

Thanks for the support. The whole thing has been really confusing and aggravating. The people in the office I went to are really nice and seem very trustworthy so arguing with them was hard and it was also hard to believe that they could be going along with this kind of thing.

Thanks for the link Faram, that's a very good breakdown of it. When they first explained it I knew there was something wrong and would have explored it more at the time but they're very convincing and charismatic. I guess that's why they only go after students; they're desparate for a job, can get pity from customers (who happen to be friends and family to begin with), and are very naive and trusting (for the most part).

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2003-07-10 07:53pm

You did the right thing. I was in a similar situation when I finished high school and was looking for a summer job to make some spending cash for university. I found the ad in the paper promising nice wages and went in for the presentation. It wasn't long before I realized something was fishy, my tipoff being them requiring me to buy a demo kit at my cost and do a bunch of training before selling anything. That and the fact that I'd be doing door to door sales turned me off and I walked out when the presentation ended and didn't stay for interviews. It was only much later that I learned they were kinda shady.

The main thing that annoyed me was their false claims of product superiority, that "double D" serration pattern of theirs and the claimed cutting advantages. During part of the presentation they gave us their Cutco knives and things to cut, like rope, cardboard, and rubber. I also happened to have my own pocket knife with me so I could do some comparative testing, my pocket knife was better on everything except rubber. Out of curiosity I tried to slice into the Cutco knife with my pocketknife, and succeeded in shaving a thin strip off the Cutco, so much for those claims of "indestructible surgical stainless steel". My pocketknife BTW is made of ATS-34, a high hardness stainless steel used in premium cutlery and jet engine ball bearings.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-07-10 07:57pm

You did the right thing. It is morally wrong to let morons keep their money (which is why we have pyramid schemes and the lottery), but you're not a moron.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-07-10 08:41pm

Alot of those knife set like some people have mentioned have the same hardness as a piece of tin. Seriously tin might even be stronger.

TheFeniX · Post by **TheFeniX** » 2003-07-10 09:20pm

While I agree, the whole lying part is bad, since when has the corporate sector done any better?

Ask Bill Gates what the best Operating System is. You think he'll tell you Linux?

Ask the tobacco companies if cigarettes are bad for you. Ask Ford who makes the best trucks. Ask Pioneer who makes the best radios.

I had a Mac addict arguing with me about the new G4 from Apple. He used benchmarking paid for by Apple as evidence in the arguement. It doesn't work that way. I later find out Apple tested the PC's under less than optimal conditions. Big surprise right?

Take anything given to you by a guy looking for your business with a grain of salt.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-07-10 09:47pm

You were right, but you should have tried to sell some of those shoddy products to people you don't like.

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-07-10 10:22pm

Hobot, you did the right thing. Stay away from all MLM companies. Its all a load of crap. How happy do you think your friends and family would be if keep trying to sell them a product?

I got suckered into an Amway meeting in college by a girl in my chem class. I left at the snack break once I realized what it was. I didnt have the skills to debate them at the time, but I knew they where full of it. I didnt speak to here again because she misrepresented the whole thing.