Star Trek at Comic-Con: Trek Vs. Wars

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-07-10 11:06pm

Yeah, by current standards, Citizen Kane sucks. It was better than anything before it, however, and that's what's earned it a place in film history.

The same could be said of Star Wars to a certain extent. By current standards it's a little corny, but in 1977 it was simply amazing: nobody had ever done so realistic special effects before. And that's why it's on the top 100 films of all time list.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-07-10 11:11pm

Frank Hipper wrote:Does popularity make a movie good?

Perhaps not in and of itself, but the best films tend to be popular (and vice versa). There is a correlation between film quality and popularity.

Does a film's influence make it good? How many people despise 2001, after all...

Perhaps not in and of itself, but again, good films tend to be influential, if only because other movies seek to idolize them.

Can good acting make up for bad acting in the same film?

Sometimes, it depends on the film and what the circumstances are.

Does an ancient story become better, fresher, in a new setting?

Sometimes, it depends on how well the story is told and what kind of a setting it's placed in.

Let's take a film that the critics considered to be very strong: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Is it influential? Not by any stretch of the imagination.

Was it popular? Only marginally.

Was it a strong film? Not especially. I have several friends from China, and all of them considered it to be an average, or even slightly below average Chinese film. Why was it imported to the United States? No idea.

Was it an original story? If you can call it a story, then no. Half of the movie, frankly, did not make any sense. The story made no pretenses of attempting to make sense, or even of seriously attempting to echo mythology.

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was an average or below average film. It was mediocre in almost all respects, but the critics loved it. The critics were wrong. I have no idea what method of judging movies you use, but I defy you to show a category in which CTHD could be considered a strong film, or even explain why the critics enjoyed it and convinced me to spend money on seeing it.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-07-10 11:20pm

I would argue that CTHD is both popular and influential, however strong your other points are. How many times have we seen it's style emulated since, even in that insurance commercial.

Matt7 · Post by **Matt7** » 2003-07-11 12:46am

You guys all forgot how much MONEY SW has made, especially including all the "spinoff" stuff - eg. action figs, games, books, etc.
And don't forget that Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher are the actors/actresses who have made the most money, all because of SW.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-07-11 01:11am

Matt7 wrote:You guys all forgot how much MONEY SW has made, especially including all the "spinoff" stuff - eg. action figs, games, books, etc.
And don't forget that Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher are the actors/actresses who have made the most money, all because of SW.

I hardly think that you can attribute an entire actor's life work to their efforts in a single film.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-07-11 01:14am

Frank Hipper wrote:I would argue that CTHD is both popular and influential, however strong your other points are. How many times have we seen it's style emulated since, even in that insurance commercial.

I don't think that being made fun of by everyone from Shrek to insurance companies makes you influential, and I haven't talked to anyone who actually liked the film. As a movie, it did okay financially due to massive hype and critical acclaim.

Matt7 · Post by **Matt7** » 2003-07-11 01:14am

probably can, with Carrie Fisher. Name five other movies she was in off the top of your head....

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2003-07-11 01:53am

Matt7 wrote:probably can, with Carrie Fisher. Name five other movies she was in off the top of your head....

Under The Rainbow
Drop Dead Fred
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
Scream 3
Hair

Matt7 · Post by **Matt7** » 2003-07-11 01:57am

all right

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-07-11 02:18am

KhyronTheBackstabber wrote:
Matt7 wrote:probably can, with Carrie Fisher. Name five other movies she was in off the top of your head....
Under The Rainbow
Drop Dead Fred
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
Scream 3
Hair

She's also a popular novelist.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-07-11 02:31am

DVD Etc. magazine recently conducted a readers' poll to determine the top 100 DVDs of all time. "Star Trek: The Motion Picture — The Director's Edition" made the list. "Unlike a certain fantasy film, this restoration actually helps the film and doesn't ruin the film with flashy modern CGI that doesn't fit the look of the film," writes Mark Kalze. The list appears in the June 2003 issue of the magazine, which also features an interview with "TMP" director Robert Wise.

Um, doesn't this guy know that people hate TMP specifically because it's a special effects wankfest that hurts the actual story to no end? I don't see how adding CGI will improve it

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-07-11 02:42am

KhyronTheBackstabber wrote:
Matt7 wrote:probably can, with Carrie Fisher. Name five other movies she was in off the top of your head....
Under The Rainbow
Drop Dead Fred
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
Scream 3
Hair

The Blues Brothers.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-07-11 03:03am

KhyronTheBackstabber wrote:
Matt7 wrote:probably can, with Carrie Fisher. Name five other movies she was in off the top of your head....
Under The Rainbow
Drop Dead Fred
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
Scream 3
Hair

Dude, she was the psycho ex bride in Blues Brothers. How can you leave that one off?

KhyronTheBackstabber · Post by **KhyronTheBackstabber** » 2003-07-11 03:29am

Ender wrote:Dude, she was the psycho ex bride in Blues Brothers. How can you leave that one off?

He said five off the top of your head, so I didn't really give it much thought, just bam, bam, bam, and that's what came out. Sorry.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2003-07-11 02:34pm

She also cameoed in Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery as the group therapist, I believe.

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-07-11 08:38pm

Yay! I'm not alone in my opinion of "Citizen Kane" being overrated!!!!

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-07-12 11:28am

Here is an interesting little tid-bit. Fuzzy Modem from Spacebattles is going to be at the comic-con. Of you want him to check out this little venue or even voice some realistic opinions, might want to contact him.

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2003-07-12 11:38am

Slartibartfast wrote:
KhyronTheBackstabber wrote:
Matt7 wrote:probably can, with Carrie Fisher. Name five other movies she was in off the top of your head....
Under The Rainbow
Drop Dead Fred
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
Scream 3
Hair
The Blues Brothers.

The 'Burbs

A Big Flying Fish · Post by **A Big Flying Fish** » 2003-07-12 04:49pm

DVD Etc. magazine recently conducted a readers' poll to determine the top 100 DVDs of all time. "Star Trek: The Motion Picture — The Director's Edition" made the list. "Unlike a certain fantasy film, this restoration actually helps the film and doesn't ruin the film with flashy modern CGI that doesn't fit the look of the film," writes Mark Kalze. The list appears in the June 2003 issue of the magazine, which also features an interview with "TMP" director Robert Wise.

Someone obviously is very thick. Especially since anyone with half a brain knows that the OT is out on DVD yet, atleast not officially. When will some people get brain cells. I don't know

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-07-12 08:05pm

A Big Flying Fish wrote:
DVD Etc. magazine recently conducted a readers' poll to determine the top 100 DVDs of all time. "Star Trek: The Motion Picture — The Director's Edition" made the list. "Unlike a certain fantasy film, this restoration actually helps the film and doesn't ruin the film with flashy modern CGI that doesn't fit the look of the film," writes Mark Kalze. The list appears in the June 2003 issue of the magazine, which also features an interview with "TMP" director Robert Wise.
Someone obviously is very thick. Especially since anyone with half a brain knows that the OT is out on DVD yet, atleast not officially. When will some people get brain cells. I don't know

Besides, DVD collectors tend to rate DVDs as much by the quality of their features as by their quality of the movies. Go to www.thedigitalbits.com and check out their reviews; they can and will give a decent review to a bad movie if the DVD has really cool features on it. In fact, Mark Kalze obviously had to resort to this obscure "DVD Etc. Magazine" poll in order to find something good to say about TMP, because every pure movie reviewer has declared the movie shit.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-07-13 12:31am

Damn.... I hadNO plans on going to this Comicon.

But I'd love to videotape that VS exchange!

A Big Flying Fish · Post by **A Big Flying Fish** » 2003-07-13 06:30am

Darth Wong wrote:
A Big Flying Fish wrote:
DVD Etc. magazine recently conducted a readers' poll to determine the top 100 DVDs of all time. "Star Trek: The Motion Picture — The Director's Edition" made the list. "Unlike a certain fantasy film, this restoration actually helps the film and doesn't ruin the film with flashy modern CGI that doesn't fit the look of the film," writes Mark Kalze. The list appears in the June 2003 issue of the magazine, which also features an interview with "TMP" director Robert Wise.
Someone obviously is very thick. Especially since anyone with half a brain knows that the OT is out on DVD yet, atleast not officially. When will some people get brain cells. I don't know
Besides, DVD collectors tend to rate DVDs as much by the quality of their features as by their quality of the movies. Go to www.thedigitalbits.com and check out their reviews; they can and will give a decent review to a bad movie if the DVD has really cool features on it. In fact, Mark Kalze obviously had to resort to this obscure "DVD Etc. Magazine" poll in order to find something good to say about TMP, because every pure movie reviewer has declared the movie shit.

Too true. A bit obvious really when he says TMP was in the top 100 but The Wrath of Kahn, a clearly better film in just about every way doesn't get a mention in.

Sothis · Post by **Sothis** » 2003-07-13 07:34pm

Matt7 wrote:You guys all forgot how much MONEY SW has made, especially including all the "spinoff" stuff - eg. action figs, games, books, etc.
And don't forget that Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher are the actors/actresses who have made the most money, all because of SW.

If we go by money, then Titanic sits as the most popular film of all time- which is scary, especially since I thought Armageddon was more emotional.

Phyre · Post by **Phyre** » 2003-07-13 10:01pm

Actually, Harry Potter (number 1) beat Titanic. But that's only pure movie money. They mean what Lucas LTD had generated total from Toys, the movie, anything star wars.....

Crazy Goji · Post by **Crazy Goji** » 2003-07-13 10:18pm

Phyre wrote:Actually, Harry Potter (number 1) beat Titanic. But that's only pure movie money. They mean what Lucas LTD had generated total from Toys, the movie, anything star wars.....

No, I think Spiderman beat Harry Potter.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Star Trek at Comic-Con: Trek Vs. Wars

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