Seeing fucking red

[Vympel]

I won't even bother attempting to convey how angry I am tonight. It's 11:33pm Saturday here.

So, what happened tonight? Parent's 25th anniversary. We got to a restaraunt, my parents, my brother, his girlfriend, and I. We eat, and sometime after the conversation goes onto cars.

At one point, my Mum says after you finish uni and you start working you can get a nice car (right now it's not that great- functional, but not great)- in a way hinting that being in law guarantees that I'll be making oodles of money in a relatively short time. I move to disavow her of that notion- a lot of people think that a law student walking out of university and into the workforce will just be set upon by the top law firms and will be immediately swimming in dough. Well, I'm sorry, but it just ain't so- and I'm realistic enough to know that things will probably not be so easy for a few years, at least.

This sets my Dad off. He goes on his customary rant about what he's paying for blah blah blah and after some argument HE tells ME that I'm not realistic- yes, it's much more realistic to assume that the moment I start working I'll have enough money to buy a car- or be in a good enough position that they'll just give me a car, almost immediately. Then he went off into one of his customary red herrings about me and the computer (don't ask me how it had anything to do with it, I don't know either) and I just dropped it. Not worth the trouble. I remained silent for some 30 mins after that, I was just too fumed.

As things returned to normal, the conversation then got on to international politics, and at one point my brother and father were sitting there seriously affirming that the fall of the Soviet Union was because of some grand American conspiracy, that Gorbachev/Yeltsin was paid off, or some such nonsense. So I got back into the argument and

a: asked for a shred of proof that this was the case
b: made the common sense point that the Soviet Union's days were over and an authoritarian communist state built on repression didn't need any help from anyone to collapse
c: the Americans were probably the last to know that the USSR would collapse- the utter lack of any foreknowledge among the intelligence agencies at the time were common knowledge

What did I get in response? Hmm, let's see- my Dad calling me a communist and a nazi (at the same time, mind you) for finding no legitimate argument in his point of view whatsoever (at no time did he or my brother provide a shred of proof for their bullshit), ridiculing the way I was talking (I was moving my hands), and, as I got more aggravated at juvenile behavior coming from my FIFTY-SEVEN year old father, being repeatedly cut off before I could even start a sentence. This while my brother was telling me to shut up, and my mum telling me to keep my voice down. The more I couldn't get a word in edgewise (remember that scene in Doctor Evil? Zip it? It was like that), the more aggravated I got, until I gave up. I picked up my napkin, dropped it on the table, walked out, caught a taxi, took it to the train station, and caught a train home.

What a fucking night.

[Colonel Olrik]

eekk..

I made myself the promise never to discuss politics with my dad, and once in a while we still end up shouting at each other.. But this wins by a long margin..

My simpathies, man. Since it seems they're hopeless, in the future you should constrain yoursef from even starting to discuss. Just pretend you're not listening. It's not worth the trouble. I know it's hard, I've had similar experiences with my uncle.

[Rye]

Wow....that'd be so fun to watch. I'm sure it sucked donkey balls being in it though.

[Ghost Rider]

My sympathies.

Usually when my parents get riled(religon, politics....etc) I just simply look down and change the subject...to what I don't care.

And as for you job bit...I've been down that road, and it sucks on how they believe; straight out of college you'll be rolling in dough.

[Hethrir]

Parent and their warped RL view on the workplace. Oh BTW, rego is up HEAPS this year. I'm on a serious saving binge. I am expecting $700.

[Gandalf]

Fuck, sorry to hear that man.

[SyntaxVorlon]

That's an awful way to spend dinner. Your dad seems to be an awfully miserly old man to be so aggravated at the idea that you won't immediately start making bags of money.
Perhaps he thought you meant that he was to support you once you left uni.

[Crown]

Last time me and my dad had an arguement about a very similar topic (the fall of the USSR coupled with Hitler and Nazisim), I told him that he is getting old, senile and if he ever wants to see his future grandchildren, if he ever wants to be taken care of instead of being shipped to an old person's home and if he ever wants them to know that he exists, then he should grow up, argue sensibly with some EVIDENCE, and rationale other than 'I am right, and you are wrong'.

When he stared at me in shock, I told him to gaze very deeply into the crystal ball that somehow gives his such fantastic insight into the murkiest workings of political intrigue, and tell me if I was bluffing.

We haven't had an arguement since.


Question, were you guys arguing in Greek? Because that sucks ass, they hold the advantage in language and insults, I always alterante between the two.

[Vympel]

Last time me and my dad had an arguement about a very similar topic (the fall of the USSR coupled with Hitler and Nazisim), I told him that he is getting old, senile and if he ever wants to see his future grandchildren, if he ever wants to be taken care of instead of being shipped to an old person's home and if he ever wants them to know that he exists, then he should grow up, argue sensibly with some EVIDENCE, and rationale other than 'I am right, and you are wrong'.

When he stared at me in shock, I told him to gaze very deeply into the crystal ball that somehow gives his such fantastic insight into the murkiest workings of political intrigue, and tell me if I was bluffing.

We haven't had an arguement since.


Question, were you guys arguing in Greek? Because that sucks ass, they hold the advantage in language and insults, I always alterante between the two.

Nah, it was in English (my Greek's simply not good enough)- and you're absolutely right, that's exactly how he was arguing. It was infuriating and hours later I'm *still* pissed off- especially since while I was trying to get a word in edgewise HE was saying that I didn't know how to argue rationally because I was moving my hands as I spoke (well fucking sue me, I must be wrong if I'm doing that).

[Crown]

That's an awful way to spend dinner. Your dad seems to be an awfully miserly old man to be so aggravated at the idea that you won't immediately start making bags of money.
Perhaps he thought you meant that he was to support you once you left uni.

It's not that. If I can take a moment and assume that Vympel's dad is anything like mine, then I will posltualte the following.

He never completed high school (hell my dad didn't even go to highschool). He immegrated to Australia without speaking a word of English and with nothing more than the clothes on his back and a suite case full of memories. He slaved away for years and years, picking up other people's mess, or being a cleaner, or a factory worker, and he did it all for you. He incouraged you from the moment you started to speak to learn, to go to school, to do well at school and go to university and find a good job that you have to use your mind and not your body like him.

And then one day, you thinking you are pleasing him bring up a topic that you studied, he has never done this, all he knows is heresay and opinion, but no fact. He now wants to impress upon you that he is still relevant in your life and tries to impress you with his knowledge, and usually if it is about complex issues, you end up disagreeing. He grew up in a life of struggle and hard options, you grew up with never having a need or want go unfulfilled, in short you grew up in a totally different world.

You argue.

It's stupid really, because while I can never ask my dad which is the best by-pass ratio for a turbofan engine that requires a mass flow of X. And nor could I discuss in-depth analysis of politics with him, or history. In every day to day stuff, and experience he beats me hands down. He will always be necessary, but not in the way he wants. *shrug*

[Admiral Valdemar]

Sounds familiar, my dad can be like that too, "You'll end up in a factory with crap pay and no decent job satisfaction if you don't get your qualifications" blah, blah, blah.

Like I don't bloody know what the real world is, I'm not some sheltered idiot that is going to uni for a laugh. Anyway, my first year uni results say I'm certainly not doing it for a chance to waste some years getting pissed.

[Vympel]

Nah Crown, my Dad did come from Greece with nothing with my grandparents, but he speaks perfect English, got his degree at UNSW, and has been running Daihatsu Australia as General Manager/CEO for over a decade.

However, that doesn't make him any less opinionated and full of himself- if anything, it makes it worse, because he thinks he's right by default, and simply ridicules anyone who he disagrees with without even attempting to argue the point. He once told a poor girl at a doctor's office: "you're stupid, I don't want to talk to you anymore". He's that nice.

[Crown]

Ahhh, in that case just punch him !

[Joe]

It's like that with my mom and religion. I will never reveal my atheism to her.

And I completely understand what you're talking about with the computer red herring. My leisure activities are regularly brought into discussions in which they have no relevance.

[Darth Gojira]

That sucks. I have many arguments myself. To my mom, I insist that abortion is not THAT evil, that I am an Atheist for now, that everyone has the right to premarital sex, provided they use birth control, and that Confirmation is not neccessary. I argue more philosophically with my dad, often we argue about Occam's Razor and its purpose in debate. I argue with my brother whether Mothra or Anguirus is cooler .

[Tsyroc]

That sucks. I have many arguments myself. To my mom, I insist that abortion is not THAT evil, that I am an Atheist for now, that everyone has the right to premarital sex, provided they use birth control, and that Confirmation is not neccessary. I argue more philosophically with my dad, often we argue about Occam's Razor and its purpose in debate. I argue with my brother whether Mothra or Anguirus is cooler .

OH man, you argue for Anguirus right?

[Shinova]

Hmm, nasty.

Parents think just cause they raised you, which everyone should be grateful for, they are somehow privelaged to somehow be right in everything they say versus what you say as well.


I personally don't bother. Let them stew in their own ignorance is what I say.

[Darth Wong]

My father has a PhD in nuclear physics and spent more than a decade working on alternative energy-source research. After he retired, he still did radiation dosimetry and environmental impact studies consulting for the government. I have never gotten into an argument with him on anything involving nuclear physics or radiation because that would be foolish, and besides, if the subject ever comes up, I generally accept his qualified statements so there is no potential for an argument.

However, he can also be a blithering idiot on mundane issues. He's useless with computers and we've had arguments in the past about ridiculous issues of elementary kinematics (believe it or not, he actually argued that you can't make something dry out faster by shaking it as opposed to drip-drying, and I had to finally resort to the use of equations in order to show him that the acceleration from hand-shaking can exceed the 1G applied by gravity).

Fathers with no education can be self-conscious about it, and may be prone to overcompensate when they feel that their upstart sons do not sufficiently respect their "real world experience". Fathers with considerable education can be arrogant about it, and may be prone to assume that they are infallible, particularly in the face of an argument from their own children. Not that this always happens, of course.

[Vympel]

My father has a PhD in nuclear physics and spent more than a decade working on alternative energy-source research. After he retired, he still did radiation dosimetry and environmental impact studies consulting for the government. I have never gotten into an argument with him on anything involving nuclear physics or radiation because that would be foolish, and besides, if the subject ever comes up, I generally accept his qualified statements so there is no potential for an argument.

When it comes to automobiles/business, I don't even *attempt* to argue either

However, he can also be a blithering idiot on mundane issues. He's useless with computers

Oh I hear that. My dad is one of those people who looks for the any key.

and we've had arguments in the past about ridiculous issues of elementary kinematics (believe it or not, he actually argued that you can't make something dry out faster by shaking it as opposed to drip-drying, and I had to finally resort to the use of equations in order to show him that the acceleration from hand-shaking can exceed the 1G applied by gravity).

I'm trying to picture that.

Fathers with no education can be self-conscious about it, and may be prone to overcompensate when they feel that their upstart sons do not sufficiently respect their "real world experience". Fathers with considerable education can be arrogant about it, and may be prone to assume that they are infallible, particularly in the face of an argument from their own children. Not that this always happens, of course.

I haven't seen my Dad since last night- in one of life's delicious curve balls, my paternal grandfather is in hospital because he couldn't breathe this morning.

[darthdavid]

You guys are lucky. My dad died when i was 8. I'd take someone who always thinks their right over no one any day.

[Darth Wong]

You guys are lucky. My dad died when i was 8. I'd take someone who always thinks their right over no one any day.

Sorry to hear about that, DD.

[darthdavid]

Some good in every bad. He turned around from heavy drinking before death and managed to find peace in the cherokee religion so at least he died with a smile on his face.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

I'm living with my dad right now after being on my own for 3 years, and let me tell you, it's rough. But Vympel's dad seems much less reasonable than mine. My condolences, man.

[Lord Poe]

I remember all those great arguments with my dad. He had an 8th grade education, but could pull apart and assemble car engines, install wall sockets and phone jacks, all around handyman, etc. Everything I can't do.

But I couldn't explain the functions of a tape recorder to him no matter how much I tried. He didn't understand that you have to push the "stop" button before you go from play and rewind, for instance. Or that using a VCR is virtually the same procedure. Things like that. But I'd never call him stupid.

As an aside, He loved the Indiana Jones movies, and Return of the Jedi! (the only SW movie he ever watched) But when I watched T2 with him, he said "Aw hell" and got up and left when the T-1000 turned its arm into a giant knife and stuck it through Todd's head!

[justifier]

I won't even bother attempting to convey how angry I am tonight. It's 11:33pm Saturday here.

So, what happened tonight? Parent's 25th anniversary. We got to a restaraunt, my parents, my brother, his girlfriend, and I. We eat, and sometime after the conversation goes onto cars.

At one point, my Mum says after you finish uni and you start working you can get a nice car (right now it's not that great- functional, but not great)- in a way hinting that being in law guarantees that I'll be making oodles of money in a relatively short time. I move to disavow her of that notion- a lot of people think that a law student walking out of university and into the workforce will just be set upon by the top law firms and will be immediately swimming in dough. Well, I'm sorry, but it just ain't so- and I'm realistic enough to know that things will probably not be so easy for a few years, at least.

This sets my Dad off. He goes on his customary rant about what he's paying for blah blah blah and after some argument HE tells ME that I'm not realistic- yes, it's much more realistic to assume that the moment I start working I'll have enough money to buy a car- or be in a good enough position that they'll just give me a car, almost immediately. Then he went off into one of his customary red herrings about me and the computer (don't ask me how it had anything to do with it, I don't know either) and I just dropped it. Not worth the trouble. I remained silent for some 30 mins after that, I was just too fumed.

As things returned to normal, the conversation then got on to international politics, and at one point my brother and father were sitting there seriously affirming that the fall of the Soviet Union was because of some grand American conspiracy, that Gorbachev/Yeltsin was paid off, or some such nonsense. So I got back into the argument and

a: asked for a shred of proof that this was the case
b: made the common sense point that the Soviet Union's days were over and an authoritarian communist state built on repression didn't need any help from anyone to collapse
c: the Americans were probably the last to know that the USSR would collapse- the utter lack of any foreknowledge among the intelligence agencies at the time were common knowledge

What did I get in response? Hmm, let's see- my Dad calling me a communist and a nazi (at the same time, mind you) for finding no legitimate argument in his point of view whatsoever (at no time did he or my brother provide a shred of proof for their bullshit), ridiculing the way I was talking (I was moving my hands), and, as I got more aggravated at juvenile behavior coming from my FIFTY-SEVEN year old father, being repeatedly cut off before I could even start a sentence. This while my brother was telling me to shut up, and my mum telling me to keep my voice down. The more I couldn't get a word in edgewise (remember that scene in Doctor Evil? Zip it? It was like that), the more aggravated I got, until I gave up. I picked up my napkin, dropped it on the table, walked out, caught a taxi, took it to the train station, and caught a train home.

What a fucking night.

I hate arguments like that, you have my deepest sympathies