Being an asshole at the golf corse

[JodoForce]

If anything can get me to hate golf for real it would be the environmental damage argument--if there is merit in it.

But it is often a symbol of the rich (here in HK too, esp. with the scarcity of land) and such symbols are inevitably the target for much hatred.

[J]

If anything can get me to hate golf for real it would be the environmental damage argument--if there is merit in it.

Oh I'd say there's some merit to the environment damage caused by building golf courses, at least in the the courses near where I live. Almost every course in Toronto is built right on a river or stream watershed, in fact every single stream or river of any size in Toronto has a golf course built on it. Forests were mowed down by the developers, and in many cases the land was re-graded affecting water runoff patterns, all so that a few can have a pretty golf course to play on. And then people wonder why there's now deer, foxes, and coyotes roaming the golf courses and the city, it's because their forest homes got leveled! And let's not even get into all the pesticides and fertilizers they use to keep the grass on the courses nice & green, and which end up washing right into the rivers and streams they built the courses on. Not to mention the waste of water in the summer needed to keep the grass from turning brown.

But it is often a symbol of the rich (here in HK too, esp. with the scarcity of land) and such symbols are inevitably the target for much hatred.

It's a symbol of the rich alright, almost all of them are private courses, which is another way of saying "expensive exclusive country club", the key words being "expensive" and "exclusive". You go figure out what that means. And I dislike them because not only are they ruining the environment, they are taking parklands and forests away from the public for the exclusive use of rich bastards with nothing better to do.

[Nathan F]

I can understand not liking the sport--boxing, for me, falls into that 'don't-think-it-should-be-called-a-sport' category--but does that mean you should go out of your way to be an ass and sabotage their games? That's just fucking rude.

It doesn't take alot to entertain some people, apparently.

I agree wholeheartedly with you both. Some people just want to piss other people off. Just because you don't sweat and get the chance to ram somebody like they do in American Football doesn't mean it isn't a sport... but I suppose that golf in the United States is pretty crappy if so many people hate it. To me, it's a fine sport.

Hey, it is a great sport in the US. Apparently, some people think it is some game for the rich and priviledged, even though the rich and priviledged are a tiny minority that is shrinking every day when it comes to who plays golf.

Golf is an ancient sport with a long history dating back to the Romans, and just because someone enjoys playing doesn't mean that they are some rich bastard who wants to cut down forests and destroy everything good and decent.

[Mitth`raw`nuruodo]

Read this one in Debt of Honour:

'You know why they call it golf?'
'No, why?'
'Because "shit" is already taken.'

Great book. Have you read the sequel?

[aerius]

Hey, it is a great sport in the US. Apparently, some people think it is some game for the rich and priviledged, even though the rich and priviledged are a tiny minority that is shrinking every day when it comes to who plays golf.

Perhaps, but other than Polo, auto racing, and yachting I can't think of any sports which are more expensive than golf. Let's say I wanted to play 10 rounds of golf a year, at the cheapest golf course in my area that'll still cost me $300, play at a nicer course and it's well over $1000, and that's not even getting into the nice private courses. Membership & fees on one of those will easily run me over $20,000. All money is in US dollars. I could buy 2 very nice 2-3 year old family cars for that money.

[Hyperion]

Hey, it is a great sport in the US. Apparently, some people think it is some game for the rich and priviledged, even though the rich and priviledged are a tiny minority that is shrinking every day when it comes to who plays golf.

Perhaps, but other than Polo, auto racing, and yachting I can't think of any sports which are more expensive than golf. Let's say I wanted to play 10 rounds of golf a year, at the cheapest golf course in my area that'll still cost me $300, play at a nicer course and it's well over $1000, and that's not even getting into the nice private courses. Membership & fees on one of those will easily run me over $20,000. All money is in US dollars. I could buy 2 very nice 2-3 year old family cars for that money.

I *have* played golf in the past, but lost interest because I can't hit the damned ball with the stupid stick. (however, golf balls do make damn good spud cannon ammo )

$20,000... Holy hell, with that kind of money, I can just imagine the kind of hardware I would have installed in my Honda... Hell, I might even try racing with it after that kind of stuff got installed.

[Zaia]

Perhaps, but other than Polo, auto racing, and yachting I can't think of any sports which are more expensive than golf. Let's say I wanted to play 10 rounds of golf a year, at the cheapest golf course in my area that'll still cost me $300, play at a nicer course and it's well over $1000, and that's not even getting into the nice private courses. Membership & fees on one of those will easily run me over $20,000. All money is in US dollars. I could buy 2 very nice 2-3 year old family cars for that money.

Ok, so ten rounds of golf can run a few hundreds of dollars a year. Big deal. Does that mean you should stereotype them as being rich assholes? People who smoke moderately spend more than that inside a couple of months, yet do we stereotype smokers as being rich and snobby? I don't think we do.

So, how much do you spend on CDs? Or on your mountain bike? Or, I don't know, DVDs? Anime? Pez dispensers? Pornography? My point is, everyone has their thing that they enjoy spending money on. Some people go to restaurants two or three times a week, some people spend a hundred dollars a month on cigarettes, some spend it on international travel, and others spend it on recreational sports, such as golf. Hell, my friend's gf does scrapbooking and she spent $1200 last year.

Everyone has something that they enjoy spending money on. It's not anyone's place to decide which vices are to be applauded and which are to be condemned. To each his or her own, no? Those golfers did not deserve to be harassed.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Pez dispensers?

I collect Pez dispensers. My pride and joy is Yub Yub, my Ewok Pez dispenser. Got him on my computer desk right now.

Just thought you all should know that.

[Zaia]

Pez dispensers?

I collect Pez dispensers. My pride and joy is Yub Yub, my Ewok Pez dispenser. Got him on my computer desk right now.

Just thought you all should know that.

Thanks for skillfully avoiding whether you agree with my point or not, Gnomey.

[Mitth`raw`nuruodo]

Pez dispensers?

I collect Pez dispensers. My pride and joy is Yub Yub, my Ewok Pez dispenser. Got him on my computer desk right now.

Just thought you all should know that.

YOU HAVE AN EWOK PEZ DISPENSER?!?!??!?! I WANT ONE! GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE!!! (which, coincidentally, is something that is done in golf...)

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Thanks for skillfully avoiding whether you agree with my point or not, Gnomey.

Huh? Oh yeah...uh...don't be mean to golfers guys...they have big metal sticks and if you piss off the wrong one he'll smack your head in.

Yub Yub!

[aerius]

Ok, so ten rounds of golf can run a few hundreds of dollars a year. Big deal. Does that mean you should stereotype them as being rich assholes? People who smoke moderately spend more than that inside a couple of months, yet do we stereotype smokers as being rich and snobby? I don't think we do.

True, a few hundred bucks ain't that much money, and I know people who spend that much playing golf because it's fun, and it's their hobby, and it's also true that these people aren't rich either. However where I live these people are the minority. When I go by the golf course the parking lot is filled with BMW's, Lexus, Mercedes, Audis, and other such expensive cars with a few Chevy's and such sprinkled around. I very much doubt the common folk around here drive such expensive cars.

So, how much do you spend on CDs? Or on your mountain bike? Or, I don't know, DVDs? Anime? Pez dispensers? Pornography? My point is, everyone has their thing that they enjoy spending money on. Some people go to restaurants two or three times a week, some people spend a hundred dollars a month on cigarettes, some spend it on international travel, and others spend it on recreational sports, such as golf. Hell, my friend's gf does scrapbooking and she spent $1200 last year.

CD's, hundred or 2 a year, bikes, couple thousand to buy them, 10-20 a year to keep them running, though the killer has to be concert tickets in my case, ran up something like $400 Cdn last year.

Everyone has something that they enjoy spending money on. It's not anyone's place to decide which vices are to be applauded and which are to be condemned. To each his or her own, no? Those golfers did not deserve to be harassed.

Can't argue with you on that, and I freely admit that I just have a hatred for the game of golf and what the fucking course developers did to our area. Some people hate car racing, some hate figure skating, others hate biking, and I hate golf. Golf can suck my nuts.

[Zaia]

True, a few hundred bucks ain't that much money, and I know people who spend that much playing golf because it's fun, and it's their hobby, and it's also true that these people aren't rich either. However where I live these people are the minority. When I go by the golf course the parking lot is filled with BMW's, Lexus, Mercedes, Audis, and other such expensive cars with a few Chevy's and such sprinkled around. I very much doubt the common folk around here drive such expensive cars.

Out of curiousity, is this whole area rather well-to-do, or is it just at the golf course where you see these expensive cars? I'm just curious, because generally down here, the ritzy private golf clubs are in the ritzy neighbourhoods, where everything is exclusive and overpriced and a status symbol. The middle-class neighbourhoods have nice public courses, less expensive private ones and some nice college courses that are perfectly reasonable in terms of beauty, difficulty and price. There's a nice nearby course that my parents and brothers go to that charges less than $20 a person, and apparently it's really well-maintained and pretty.

My point was just that people who shout things out car windows don't know at whom they are shouting. My brothers both started golfing when they were four or five. How good would LT feel if he had yelled rude things at my little brothers? *shrugs*

Can't argue with you on that, and I freely admit that I just have a hatred for the game of golf and what the fucking course developers did to our area. Some people hate car racing, some hate figure skating, others hate biking, and I hate golf. Golf can suck my nuts.

Fair enough; you're completely allowed, especially the bit about hating what the developers did to your area. That shit pisses me off too.

Incidentally, I love car racing, as long as it's F1.

[J]

Out of curiousity, is this whole area rather well-to-do, or is it just at the golf course where you see these expensive cars? I'm just curious, because generally down here, the ritzy private golf clubs are in the ritzy neighbourhoods, where everything is exclusive and overpriced and a status symbol. The middle-class neighbourhoods have nice public courses, less expensive private ones and some nice college courses that are perfectly reasonable in terms of beauty, difficulty and price. There's a nice nearby course that my parents and brothers go to that charges less than $20 a person, and apparently it's really well-maintained and pretty.

Toronto's kind of a weird city where one can literally cross a street and go from multi-million dollar homes to run down subsidized housing complexes. He lives in a decent middle income area with 2 goof courses within oh..2 minutes of him (it should be noted that you're never more than 10 minutes away from a course here), one of them's a public course that borders on low income housing units and the other's the $20,000 (gasp!) private one he mentioned. The public course is very reasonably priced considering how nicely built & kept it is and I believe it's the cheapest one anywhere near town. Unfortunately it's the one they leveled a forest and took away parkland to build which has earned my BF's undying hatred, and I'm not too happy with it either. Oh well, life goes on.

Myself, I live a few minutes away from him in an upper-middle class area that borders an incredibly mega-rich area where some garages are bigger than my entire house and garage put together, and where the cars in the garage can buy my home several times over. As befitting such a neighbourhood, we have the most exclusive golf course in town a few blocks away from me, I don't even want to know the membership fees, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's nearly the cost of my home. Of the 3 courses near me, all of them are private and cost over $15,000 to play on, but strangely enough 2 of them are located in somewhat rundown locales and are separated from the unclean hordes by tall iron fences and stone walls.

Though there is a correlation of sorts between the nicety of a locale and the ritzyness of it's area golf courses, the one thing I've found is that the parking lots are predominantely filled with luxury and premium cars, and that the players are generally the well-off type. Not that there's anything wrong with that, in fact I'd actually fit in quite well if I had any real interest in playing golf. Though I neither like nor enjoy golf, I should note that I don't share my BF's virulent perpetual hatred of it.

Oh...and "suirea"? "aeriana"? Oh boy...

[Darth Wong]

Golf is an extremely inefficient use of civic resources. A golf course requires vast amounts of greenland, which is a precious commodity in the city. It requires more maintenance than a park of equivalent size. And it services a comparatively miniscule number of people at a time, who must use it on a schedule and only in a particular way. You can't take your wife and kids and dog for a stroll through the golf course. In that context, it is quite simply an act of social irresponsibility to build public golf courses in cities.

[aerius]

I just looked on a map of Toronto and counted 19, 19 fucking golf courses in Toronto, 19! I don't even want to figure out how much land area that takes up.

[Darth Wong]

I might also add that golf courses are not often used as a family activity. While I do have one acquaintance who golfs with his wife and son, the vast majority of golfers leave their families at home in order to golf with their male friends. For these people, it has become a mere highbrow social male-bonding replacement for bar-hopping with the guys (albeit one that takes up far more public resources).

[Nathan F]

But then again, you have all the courses in my area being stuck out on the outskirts of cities (in what would otherwise soon become high-price housing cut into 1/4 acre plots, a much worse use of land than a golf course, IMHO), or they are out in the countryside away from everyone, not bothering a thing, and complementing the terrain, not destroying it. Of course, the state of Tennessee park system also runs an extensive public golf course system inside many state parks, these being very well run and very reasonably priced.

But I also ask the same question that was asked earlier, how does the 200-300 bucks I might spend on golf per year make it any worse than the 200-300 bucks a year you might spend on, say, CDs?

<edit>

Golf is, also, no longer simply a male oriented game. I know plenty of girls and families who play golf, and the local semi-private (read: public course that offers memberships, members get free play, non-members pay a small green-fee) even offers family memberships, and family play is encouraged.

[Darth Wong]

But then again, you have all the courses in my area being stuck out on the outskirts of cities (in what would otherwise soon become high-price housing cut into 1/4 acre plots, a much worse use of land than a golf course, IMHO), or they are out in the countryside away from everyone, not bothering a thing, and complementing the terrain, not destroying it. Of course, the state of Tennessee park system also runs an extensive public golf course system inside many state parks, these being very well run and very reasonably priced.

But I also ask the same question that was asked earlier, how does the 200-300 bucks I might spend on golf per year make it any worse than the 200-300 bucks a year you might spend on, say, CDs?

I can listen to CDs without having to temporarily abandon my family to do so. I can listen to CDs without consuming public resources to do so.

[Nathan F]

But then again, you have all the courses in my area being stuck out on the outskirts of cities (in what would otherwise soon become high-price housing cut into 1/4 acre plots, a much worse use of land than a golf course, IMHO), or they are out in the countryside away from everyone, not bothering a thing, and complementing the terrain, not destroying it. Of course, the state of Tennessee park system also runs an extensive public golf course system inside many state parks, these being very well run and very reasonably priced.

But I also ask the same question that was asked earlier, how does the 200-300 bucks I might spend on golf per year make it any worse than the 200-300 bucks a year you might spend on, say, CDs?

I can listen to CDs without having to temporarily abandon my family to do so. I can listen to CDs without consuming public resources to do so.

What about the strip malls and mega-marts with huge areas of asphalt that completely destroy the land scape that you buy your CDs from?

[Darth Wong]

What about the strip malls and mega-marts with huge areas of asphalt that completely destroy the land scape that you buy your CDs from?

Are you saying that you don't shop? Unless golfing somehow eliminates the need to shop, this does not convey an advantage upon it. Music stores are actually very high-density operations, requiring very little floorspace. Comparing them to golf courses (or implying that they are responsible for the entirety of any mall) is insane.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

I think it was George Carlin who came up with a good use for golf courses: Low income housing! Let's see how you rich fucks like a few thousand crackheads moving in!

[Mitth`raw`nuruodo]

I think it was George Carlin who came up with a good use for golf courses: Low income housing! Let's see how you rich fucks like a few thousand crackheads moving in!

That was GC. I'm watching him now on HBO Comedy...

[JodoForce]

So, the conclusion is, we should leave environmentally friendly golf courses alone and piss the hell out of golfers in those damned urban golf courses

Not that this has anything to do with me, I don't hardly ever run into any golf courses

Read this one in Debt of Honour:

'You know why they call it golf?'
'No, why?'
'Because "shit" is already taken.'

Great book. Have you read the sequel?

I think so. What is it called?

[Mitth`raw`nuruodo]

Great book. Have you read the sequel?

I think so. What is it called?

Executive Orders. It begins like 4 hours after the other ends, and is really good, methinks. *must..avoid...giving away...plot details*