Fuck - even the M2HBs jammed...(PFC Lynch)

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-07-12 02:14pm

jegs2 wrote:While this has no bearing on the situation of the ambushed CSS platoon in Iraq, I was reading an account on the Battle of Shiloh between Federal and Confederate forces in 1862. The losses in men were counted in the tens of thousands -- whole brigades and divisions lost in a shockingly short period of time. I read of men wading into a withering hail of fire as their comrades were cut down to the left and right. It is amazing what we now flinch at in terms of losses when compared to such battles as that. While I know that the instant availability of news and information in this day and age holds large sway over this, it still awes me to read of those savage and bloody battles so long ago...

Or maybe we should thank God that this instant availability of information has made War a much less...inviting...prospect than it has been in our millennia of civilization.

Solid Snake · Post by **Solid Snake** » 2003-07-13 12:21am

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:[
I have no doubt that the M-16 is a pretty good weapon. I wonder, however, whether the US could find a less maintenance intensive weapon.

The Vietnam Era M-16... Sometimes, the gas pressure wouldnt be enough to blow the slide (forgot proper name) back, meaning a soldier would have to recock the damn thing manually a lot. Also, it was fully automatic. Soliders would usually expend a whole magazine firing at one target, sometimes hitting nothing but air.
I dont know what was wrong with the M-16's of that company, but unjamming today's M-16 isnt very hard. Tap the bottom of the magazine, pull back the slide (again, forgot proper name) observe the round coming out of the chamber, and tap the forward assist. If that didnt work, then it really must've had poor maintainence.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-07-13 03:02am

Or maybee being a supply company they got shipped Vietnam era models....

With the Crappy foul burning ammo that went with it...

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-07-13 03:19am

jegs2 wrote:While this has no bearing on the situation of the ambushed CSS platoon in Iraq, I was reading an account on the Battle of Shiloh between Federal and Confederate forces in 1862. The losses in men were counted in the tens of thousands -- whole brigades and divisions lost in a shockingly short period of time. I read of men wading into a withering hail of fire as their comrades were cut down to the left and right. It is amazing what we now flinch at in terms of losses when compared to such battles as that. While I know that the instant availability of news and information in this day and age holds large sway over this, it still awes me to read of those savage and bloody battles so long ago...

Somme, Ypres battles, Flanders, Verdun etc etc.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-07-13 04:54am

Vorlon1701 wrote: Or maybe we should thank God that this instant availability of information has made War a much less...inviting...prospect than it has been in our millennia of civilization.

It hasn't. There are just certain conditions prevailing which have temporarily lessened the incidence of large-scale conflicts, and then only in certain portions of the globe. Read about the Ethiopian-Eritrean Border war if you want to hear about two countries perfectly willing to suffer tens of thousands of casualties in a single day's battle, all in a conflict over, in theory, a relatively worthless chunk of disputed border territory. That nature of the human mentality will always be with us.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-07-13 06:26am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: It hasn't. There are just certain conditions prevailing which have temporarily lessened the incidence of large-scale conflicts, and then only in certain portions of the globe. Read about the Ethiopian-Eritrean Border war if you want to hear about two countries perfectly willing to suffer tens of thousands of casualties in a single day's battle, all in a conflict over, in theory, a relatively worthless chunk of disputed border territory. That nature of the human mentality will always be with us.

That is correct. People will be prepared to suffer huge casulty lists if the cause is right, the immediate aftermath of 9/11 is a case in point, where I suspect that America would have happily suffered large losses in the name of justice/revenge. NZ was at the verge of war with Indonesia over East Timor in 99 untill the US told the Indons to co-operate. Such a war would have been.. costly, but one we would have fought had it come down to it.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-07-13 06:39am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: Read about the Ethiopian-Eritrean Border war if you want to hear about two countries perfectly willing to suffer tens of thousands of casualties in a single day's battle, all in a conflict over, in theory, a relatively worthless chunk of disputed border territory. That nature of the human mentality will always be with us.

I wish I could find some good sources about that one- the only thing I managed to find of any interest was the battles between Ethiopian Su-27s and Eritrean MiG-29s, both piloted by Russian mercenaries- the Su-27s won decisively.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-07-13 07:57am

Vympel wrote:
I wish I could find some good sources about that one- the only thing I managed to find of any interest was the battles between Ethiopian Su-27s and Eritrean MiG-29s, both piloted by Russian mercenaries- the Su-27s won decisively.

The MiG-29's were flown by Ukrainians.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-07-13 01:14pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
The MiG-29's were flown by Ukrainians.

Ukranians aren't real. It's like Wyoming. There's really no such place. It's all lies.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-07-17 10:11am

American troops in Iraq had a lot of problems with the fine sand (often described as like talcum powder) causing their weapons to jam. Combat units, which had lots of troops with experience with that problem, tended to switch to non-Milspec (military specification) CLP (Cleaning, Lubricating and Preserving) lubricants. In fact, most combat troops find the Milspec CLPs very inferior to Militec lubricant. But Militec has never been able to pass the army's lab test for preservation. This has not stopped Militec from dominating the market for weapons lubricants in outfits like the Coast Guard, FBI and many police departments. Militec's manufacturer considers the Army's lab tests to be flawed and have been feuding with the AMC (Army Materials Command) for over a decade on the subject. AMC went to so far as to block any shipments of Militec to combat units (when the stuff was ordered through official channels). So the troops order the stuff on their own, and pay for it themselves. Non-combat units tend to use the standard CLP, and find that their weapons jam when they several hours exposure to the fine sand of Iraq. This is what happened with the maintenance unit PFC Jessica Lynch belonged to. Marines arriving on the scene of that ambush noted that they could find no 5.56mm brass for US weapons (M-16, M-240), while there was plenty of brass from Iraqi AK-47s that had been fired.

As I suspected, tanknet is often a good origin for most strategypage.com entries