Who do you get to defeat the Empire?

Andrew Joshua Talon · Post by **Andrew Joshua Talon** » 2002-09-20 09:28am

I hope this poll isn't too redundant. I think it's including aspects of many seperate posting before it into a single idea, but I might be wrong. Anyway, I know I seem to be obsessing over finding a way for my favorite sci fi empires to at least stand a chance against the Empire, but hey, I'd rather live in the Federation than in the Empire (just doesn't like tyrants) any day. And fighting for freedom from oppression always has a nice ring to it, hm? It's the consequences of acheiving that freedom that form the troubles later (cough)American-Russian-Mexican-French Revolutions (cough).

Hendrake · Post by **Hendrake** » 2002-09-20 09:55am

Andrew Joshua Talon wrote:I hope this poll isn't too redundant. I think it's including aspects of many seperate posting before it into a single idea, but I might be wrong. Anyway, I know I seem to be obsessing over finding a way for my favorite sci fi empires to at least stand a chance against the Empire, but hey, I'd rather live in the Federation than in the Empire (just doesn't like tyrants) any day. And fighting for freedom from oppression always has a nice ring to it, hm? It's the consequences of acheiving that freedom that form the troubles later (cough)American-Russian-Mexican-French Revolutions (cough).

I personally wouldn't like at all to live in the Empire, but neither in the TNG Federation.

I see the federation as a higly hypocritical government. It looks like there is only one political party and all the ships are Starfleet (i.e. militar) propriety. They can "recognize the seeds of criminal behaviour" and protect the status quo by brainwashing (rehabilitation centers) and lastly they are at least somewhat racists

TOS Federation is another thing, of course.

As for the empires listed, I think the Vorlon have the best chance. I do not know Andromeda or the Rangers so I can't be sure how they would be effective, but the other organizations' only means of challenging the Empire are military, and the Empire has a better war machine then any of those, not to mention superior hypersspace speed compared to warp. That makes them inadeguate to guerrillia warfare.

The Vorlons, on the other hand, may well subvert the mind of moffs and sector managers, influence and "advise" them. Palpatine is possibly more powerful of them, but there are very few Sith Lords compared to Vorlons and even less in the milky way. Of course, that is not repelling, but close.

Oh, and I think we should move the discussion to the Other Scifi forum.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-20 11:49am

Andromeda is the only one with a chance, and that is debatable. Basically it comes down to: Can they use slipstream effectively in an unknown galaxy?, and will they use nova bombs?

The rest of them, especially the Rangers and Mimbari, are a freaking joke.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-09-20 11:59am

They all die.

And wrong forum.

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2002-09-20 01:00pm

Can I nominate V'ger?

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-09-20 01:30pm

This is silly. The Empire is a K-3 civilization; with the exception of S8472, all of these challengers range from high K-1 to mid-range K-2. A fight between a K-1 and a K-3 civilization would be rather like pitting the residents of the Pitcarin Islands against everyone else on the planet.

The only groups here that have even half a chance are S8472 (another K-3 or possibly higher), and the Vorlons (K-2 but with rather impressive telepathy). Everyone else is just a speedbump.

Now, for a surefire way to get rid of the Empire, bring out the Culture.

Sokar · Post by **Sokar** » 2002-09-20 02:23pm

The 4th Empire(Dahak-verse) would wipe the floor with the Empire. 900,000 moon sized battleships are nothing to sneeze at:-)

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-09-20 02:25pm

Sokar wrote:The 4th Empire(Dahak-verse) would wipe the floor with the Empire. 900,000 moon sized battleships are nothing to sneeze at:-)

But it would take a long damn time. Now, if they could fit SW hyperdrives on some of their small sublight craft...

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-09-20 02:32pm

[quote="Hendrake"]

I personally wouldn't like at all to live in the Empire, but neither in the TNG Federation.

I see the federation as a higly hypocritical government. It looks like there is only one political party and all the ships are Starfleet (i.e. militar) propriety. They can "recognize the seeds of criminal behaviour" and protect the status quo by brainwashing (rehabilitation centers) and lastly they are at least somewhat racists
[/qoute]

Why do you find them hypocritical? We never got a good glance at the UFP political system but I can see why it would seem like that. We saw many civilian ships, like Sisko's girlfriends ship it was not owned or controlled by starfleet. And why do you think they brainwash criminals?

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-20 02:55pm

tharkûn wrote:Can I nominate V'ger?

1 shot, Galaxy Gun, from across the galaxy before it can even digitalize enough inhabited systems to be a threat.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2002-09-20 03:14pm

You missed out the "other" option.

None of the ST powers mentioned would be able to even scratch them and i don't know much about the other's so I wouoldn't choose any of them.

greenmm · Post by **greenmm** » 2002-09-20 03:26pm

Have to agree there.

While the Federation would have a speed advantage against the 4th Imperium, however, I'm thinking that the 4th Imperium has the edge in ship power and weaponry (possibly in shielding as well, but it's hard to say).

Plus, Enchanach Drive (which powered most of the 4th Imperium's ships), as a normal-space FTL drive, seems to function in a manner that would emulate Interdictors on a massive scale, which could allow them to trap Imperial forces in a particular system.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-20 03:38pm

The WH40K Imperium could possibly do it if it wasn't caught in a constant struggle with Chaos, Eldar, Orcs etc.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-09-20 03:57pm

Yes, 4th E could beat them senseless. Yes, Andromeda has advantages. However, one of the known deficiencies of Wars is that, for a level 4 Civ, it is exceptionally weak. However, this VI is utterly convinced that level 2 and 3 civs could defeat the Empire.

We really need so mocking pics to post for these occasions. Whrer is that DS size comparrison pic?

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-09-20 04:15pm

Ender wrote:
tharkûn wrote:Can I nominate V'ger?
1 shot, Galaxy Gun, from across the galaxy before it can even digitalize enough inhabited systems to be a threat.

What if it digitized the galaxy gun missile? That missile does have to drop out of hyperspace first, correct?

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-20 05:21pm

Of the ones presented, the Systems Commonwealth and the Vorlons have the best chance.

Of course, we all know that the Schlockverse wipes the floor with everyone.

XaLEv · Post by **XaLEv** » 2002-09-20 05:40pm

Cyril wrote:Of the ones presented, the Systems Commonwealth and the Vorlons have the best chance.

Of course, we all know that the Schlockverse wipes the floor with everyone.

Watch where you point that word, 'everyone'.

Jadeite · Post by **Jadeite** » 2002-09-20 06:15pm

You forget Asimovs Empire! There can only be one true empire

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » 2002-09-20 06:57pm

Yes, Isaac Asimov's real Galactic Empire would crush the George Lucas's.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-20 08:12pm

-aims 'everyone' at everyone-

-everyone...-

-but the Culture-

-and Marvel-

Otherwise, the Post Dated Check-Loan is ready to take all comers!

tharkûn · Post by **tharkûn** » 2002-09-20 11:30pm

1 shot, Galaxy Gun, from across the galaxy before it can even digitalize enough inhabited systems to be a threat.
1. Why couldn't V'ger digitize the incoming shot from the Galaxy Gun?
2. V'ger has digitized entire galaxies (I think) the rate of digitization requires something around 31 stars every second (given a 400 year lifespan chewing through at least 400 billion stars ... current gues at the number of stars in the milky way), remind me again how long does the Galaxy Gun take to fire hours? Well that's only 3,720 stars gone before the Galaxy gun has a chance at killing V'ger

I mean seriously when the thing is measured in AU's you have to bet on it.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-09-20 11:35pm

V'ger is defeated by PDCL in record time.

Teraportation. Gotta love it.

...sorry, I just really love plugging the schlockverse...

Post by **fgalkin** » 2002-09-21 01:31am

The True Galactic Empire.

Or the Culture.

Or the IoM.

Oh, and of all of the species mentioned in the poll, only the Commonwealth has a chance.

septesix · Post by **septesix** » 2002-09-21 03:21am

Let's see...

Xeelee...and they don't need many ships...one Nightfigther is probably enough. (it will take a damn long time to obliterate every star in the galaxies, but Xeelee's are known for their patient(sp?) of a long-term project....)

To Speed things up, try the Five-Galaxies Upliftverse. Tandu would just have so much fun killing the Empires.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman · Post by **Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman** » 2002-09-21 09:49am

To put it blunt, all Milky Way forces are out, including the Borg and S8472.

In the thread 'B5 Shadows vs Galactic Empire', the Empire outclassess the Shadows in firepower and FTL speed (using episode references and Mike Wong's assumption that Shadow's FTL speed is 24x faster than those of the Younger Races). Assuming the Vorlons are about equal with the Shadows, then Vorlons are out as well, alongside with the Mimbari and EA.

I don't know about the Rangers, though. If what you mean is B5 Rangers , well, I think it'll be the second holocaust, except this time you put the word 'Rangers' instead of 'Jedi'.

Well, If I'm asking for help against the GE, I think I'll go to the Culture...

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