Anime and Incest

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2003-07-17 01:35am

Is it just me, or are there a lot of suggestions of incest, especially brother-sister relationships, in anime? I'm not saying that incest is portrayed as a good thing, like in Star Wars, but it sure crops up a lot. Series that contain hints of this: Ayashi no Ceres, Love Hina, Tenchi Muyo, Revolutionary Girl Utena , Evangelion (sorta), and frankly I always thought that Yushiro's little sister in Gasaraki was a little too obsessed with him.

So, have I found some sort of disturbing pattern, or should I seek counseling? Or both?

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-07-17 01:36am

For one, in Love Hina Keitaro and Kanako are not genetic siblings, just to let you know, so it's not really incest.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-17 01:40am

What's incestuous in Eva?

As for the rest, I really don't know. I do know that it isn't extremely common in anime, though...

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-07-17 01:42am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:What's incestuous in Eva?

Shinji - Rei.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-07-17 01:43am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:What's incestuous in Eva?

As for the rest, I really don't know. I do know that it isn't extremely common in anime, though...

Well, any hint of relationships between Shinji and Ayanami is sorta kinda incest, since Ayanami was likely cloned from his mom.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-07-17 01:44am

Tenchi Muyo's is kinda weird but explainable. Jurai probably is advanced enough to fix any kind of genetic defects so they don't have much of a beef against incest.

Tenchi probably just goes along or is unaware of it, him being him.

Yosho is Jurai, so he knows.

Tenchi's dad probably doesn't care and is just interested in getting Tenchi hooked up as fast as possible.

Outside of their group, no one is directly or indirectly aware of the incest-like situation between Tenchi and Ayeka.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-17 01:48am

She's cloned from both Yui and Lilith, technically.

I really didn't think about it as being incestuous, more like an awkward and uncomfortable situation. But Shinji never developes any sexual attraction to her.

As for Tenchi Muyo!: Masaki Kajishima (creator and original character designer) seems to have some hang ups with incest. I heard that in addition to what was already in the OVA, he might have originally wanted Mihoshi's parents to be brother and sister...

Maybe it has to do with the production teams sometimes.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-07-17 01:49am

Gil Hamilton wrote:Well, any hint of relationships between Shinji and Ayanami is sorta kinda incest, since Ayanami was likely cloned from his mom.

And before you Eva freaks jump on me, I mean to say cloned from Yui Ikari and Lilith as a hybrid, which is my impression of what Ayanami was.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-07-17 01:52am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:She's cloned from both Yui and Lilith, technically.

I really didn't think about it as being incestuous, more like an awkward and uncomfortable situation. But Shinji never developes any sexual attraction to her.

Hrm... I wasn't quick enough.

As for Tenchi Muyo!: Masaki Kajishima (creator and original character designer) seems to have some hang ups with incest. I heard that in addition to what was already in the OVA, he might have originally wanted Mihoshi's parents to be brother and sister...

Maybe it has to do with the production teams sometimes.

Actually, I understand Masaki Kajishima did have alot of issues with the people who were making Tenchi Muyo! and he ended up losing creative control over how the series was to be run, at which point he quit and went on to make the anime El-Hazard.

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-07-17 01:59am

Don't forget Angel Sanctuary.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-17 02:01am

And most of the porn anime that's brought over to the US...

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-07-17 02:11am

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:What's incestuous in Eva?

As for the rest, I really don't know. I do know that it isn't extremely common in anime, though...
Well, any hint of relationships between Shinji and Ayanami is sorta kinda incest, since Ayanami was likely cloned from his mom.

I think I speak for all of us who do not watch Anime when I say:

WOAH!

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-07-17 02:20am

Master of Ossus wrote:I think I speak for all of us who do not watch Anime when I say:

WOAH!

Not just that, but Ayanami was a cross between Shinji's mom and Lilith, as in Adam's first wife. I mean that literally on all counts.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-17 02:20am

Shinji and Rei never did anything that would be considered incest. They haven't even ever kissed each other. There was never really any sexual attraction or bond between them.

The closest thing is that Shinji grabbed her breast when he accidentally fell on top of her in one episode.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-17 02:21am

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:I think I speak for all of us who do not watch Anime when I say:

WOAH!
Not just that, but Ayanami was a cross between Shinji's mom and Lilith, as in Adam's first wife. I mean that literally on all counts.

BZZZT!!

Adam and Lilith in Eva are not the same Adam and Lilith in Judeo-Christian myth. They just share the same name, and are really the two Sources of Life.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-07-17 02:24am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:BZZZT!!

Adam and Lilith in Eva are not the same Adam and Lilith in Judeo-Christian myth. They just share the same name, and are really the two Sources of Life.

Yeah, they are. I thought that was the whole religious angle of the series, that it was based of Kabbala Judaism.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-17 02:27am

No, it's not. They just share the same names. There are no deeper meanings in the symbols and icons used in Eva: they're just there as elements to advance the plot.

Also, Rei is technically cloned from Yui, but does have Angelic nature, while she serves as a vessel for Lilith's soul.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-07-17 02:36am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:No, it's not. They just share the same names. There are no deeper meanings in the symbols and icons used in Eva: they're just there as elements to advance the plot.

Also, Rei is technically cloned from Yui, but does have Angelic nature, while she serves as a vessel for Lilith's soul.

Wrong-o. They constantly referenced the Old Testament and the Kabbala and even had a guy who checked their references (and if I can find the seventh volume of the manga, I can give you specific names and passages, as they had quite a lengthy article on the subject in the back about the anime and it's religious backgrounds). Admittedly, they didn't apply the symbolism very well, but they did do alot of the symbolism intentionally. Adam was supposed to be Adam, the first human, with Eva (Eve) being made from his body, and all of that.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-07-17 02:38am

Isn't Lilith supposed to have been the "Mother" of all humans (Lilum?), or the first human or something?

If that's so, then the relationship is incestual, heterosexual, homosexual, and masturbatory all at the same time.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-07-17 02:39am

Shinova wrote:Isn't Lilith supposed to have been the "Mother" of all humans (Lilum?), or the first human or something?

If that's so, then the relationship is incestual, heterosexual, homosexual, and masturbatory all at the same time.

Actually, knock off the masturbatory part, since it doesn't fit.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-17 02:42am

What I'm saying is that they didn't have any deeper meaning. I know that they spend a few years on research, but that doesn't mean that any of it was purposely symbolic. They just used them for the sake of using them, regardless on whether they checked for accuracy.

The Eva Otaku FAQ wrote:Q) Is there religious meaning to Evangelion?

A) No. Evangelion is not, and never was a religious anime and does not contain any direct commentary on the world's religions. The Judeo-Christian elements it contains are simply plot devices used to convey the story. Nothing more.

The cross shaped explosions, the Kabalah, and all other references do have religious roots and do have relevance to Evangelion but it is very important to remember that Eva is a work of fiction and should not have it's symbols taken that seriously. I think that Mamorou Oshii (director of "Ghost in The Shell" and "Patlabor") described religious elements in anime best when he said "These are used as the prototype for the stories; not for religious reasons, but for ideology and literary inspiration".

Finally, at the Otakon anime convention held in 2001, assistant director Kazuya Tsurumaki (who was the director of The End of Evangelion: Episode 25' Air - while Anno personally undetook The End of Evangelion: Episode 26' Sincerely Yours and acted as Chief Director) was asked directly what relvance Christianity had to Evangelion. This was his reply:
Tsurumaki: There are a lot of giant robot shows in Japan, and we did want our story to have a religious theme to help distinguish us.
Because Christianity is an uncommon religion in Japan we thought it would be mysterious. None of the staff who worked on Eva are Christians.
There is no actual Christian meaning to the show, we just thought the visual symbols of Christianity look cool. If we had known the show would get
distributed in the US and Europe we might have rethought that choice.

So, while Evangelion's basic plot elements are borrowed from some religious texts and myths, they merely act as inspiration for a different story. They are just there for aesthetics. Evangelion also borrowed several elements from earlier Tomino anime shows. Evangelion owes more to Ideon, than it does to Revelation.

That is what I am refering to.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-17 02:48am

Shinova wrote:Isn't Lilith supposed to have been the "Mother" of all humans (Lilum?), or the first human or something?

If that's so, then the relationship is incestual, heterosexual, homosexual, and masturbatory all at the same time.

Lilith as the Second Angel is one of the two sources of Life. While the Angels originated from Adam, The Lilim (humans) originated from Lilith.

In Eva, she isn't considered to be the "mother" of the lilim, but as the "source".

Eframepilot · Post by **Eframepilot** » 2003-07-17 02:57am

Shinova wrote:For one, in Love Hina Keitaro and Kanako are not genetic siblings, just to let you know, so it's not really incest.

True, but it's still kinda sick. There seem to be a lot of big-brother fixations in anime: Nanami and Touga (Utena), Ayeka and Yosho (before she fell for Tenchi), etc.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-07-17 04:54am

it's not just anime, it plays an important factor in almost all myth cycles.

Just ask Modred, Electra, Jocosta, Odiepus, The Egyptian Gods, The Greek Gods, etc.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-07-17 06:33am

Ugh, it's not an important factor, just a niche...